User talk:SuperJew/2019

Foreign players in the W-League

Thanks for the suggestion re: Chinese Super League example! Another possibility is to make explicit that the W-League season page notes current information only and properly date it, so no need to track former players who departed mid-season. Mightytotems (talk) 12:51, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

@Mightytotems: I think the second possibility is better for the W-League as it's hard enough to track, not to mention going back to previous seasons which I remember was a nightmare just to dredge up the foreigners who played for the clubs (and the transfer pages which I gave up after doing one because it took so much time retroactively). Anyways would suggest bringing it up for discussion at the Aussie soccer task-force. --SuperJew (talk) 12:54, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:A-League National Youth League standings templates

A tag has been placed on Category:A-League National Youth League standings templates requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

C1 - all the templates are being deleted per Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 April 3#Template:2008–09 National Youth League table

Under the criteria for speedy deletion, pages that meet certain criteria may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. DannyS712 (talk) 00:26, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Issues with page Suggestion

Three separate issues would be better as three separately headed sections. Already a hard to follow tangled discussion. For next time :) ClubOranje^T 09:03, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

@ClubOranje: Thanks for the advice :) I was bringing to WT:FOOTY just for the point mentioned there, not for everything :) --SuperJew (talk) 10:11, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for correcting my edits on the Matildas page. I'm newish to Wikipedia editing. We have similar interests :) Any advice you can give is much appreciated!MaskedSinger (talk) 13:38, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Hey MaskedSinger, Always good to see a new face ;) Just edit to the best of your ability and enjoy. In time you'll pick-up anything you need. Always welcome to ask questions if you want :) Cheers --SuperJew (talk) 14:00, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks so much SuperJew - Shabbat Shalom :)MaskedSinger (talk) 14:55, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your contribution on my talk page. How did you know I was being bothered? MaskedSinger (talk) 13:37, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

MaskedSinger Hey. I have it on my watchlist, so I can help you out if there's any discussions you need more information I can help you find ;) --SuperJew (talk) 14:35, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

SuperJew Wow! Thank you. Think you should consider changing your name to Super Mensch. I checked - it's available ;) MaskedSinger (talk) 17:28, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Ha ha we did raise our campers to be mensches :) --SuperJew (talk) 20:20, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

SuperJew I've been researching and writing my first article to create. It's an Israeli company. I noticed that it was deleted a number of years ago and I agree with that decision. It was a poorly written premature article about a company that at the time didn't satisfy WP:GNG. I believe it now does satisfy it which is why I've spent a lot of time working on this. What's the best way to create it? I have no experience with this and don't want to mess it up. MaskedSinger (talk) 18:37, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

@MaskedSinger: For your first article you might want to use the article wizard, that'll help you automatically create it as a draft page. And then when you feel it's done you can submit it for a review by more experienced editors. --SuperJew (talk) 20:20, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

SuperJew I did that and it was rejected by an editor, although to be honest, I'm not sure how much time they spent looking at the page and the references. I reached out on their talk page for clarification and no response. I guess it's too much to think other editors will be as helpful and generous as yourself. I'm not sure what to do next. MaskedSinger (talk) 11:09, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

@MaskedSinger: Wait a bit for a response. They could be busy with other things (on Wiki or IRL god forbid ;) ). After my exam period (end of August) I'll have a bit more time and can take a look if you still haven't gotten enough clarification :) --SuperJew (talk) 12:40, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

@SuperJew: Thanks - hopefully my anxiety can wait that long ;) It's just frustrating that I put a lot of time and effort into the page and someone comes along and dismisses it. Quite deflating :( MaskedSinger (talk) 14:48, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

@MaskedSinger: I completely understand you. One needs to develop tough skin to work with a lot of other people (generally in life, but even more so here on Wikipedia, as people have online anonymity and there are a lot of editors). Maybe for now focus on something else? Doesn't even have to be creating something new. Just editing, maintaining, and improving is important :)

If you'd like an idea you can join my latest project (I'm working on it sporadically because of my exams): Adding missing players from List of Australian international association football caps to List of Australia international soccer players born outside Australia (basically adding players missing from the second list based on the first list.. hope you understand my meaning) and adding referencess to List of Australia international soccer players born outside Australia. --SuperJew (talk) 14:54, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks! Thats a good idea. MaskedSinger (talk) 14:57, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

SuperJew What did you think of Australia's World Cup draw? Will be an interesting experience to play Nepal and Chinese Taipei. One of the cool thiings about being in AFC is playing all these countries for the first time! MaskedSinger (talk) 15:28, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Apart from Jordan away, we should win all the matches easily. Hope Arnie manages to put the 'Roos back on the way to a golden generation. We have plenty of potential, what with Arzani, Boyle, Rogic, etc. Just need to not be injured and get game time too. --SuperJew (talk) 16:30, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Shabbat Shalom dear SuperJew MaskedSinger (talk) 15:30, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

You know of anyone who can have a look and review it. It's ready - it's now just waiting to be looked at.Irony is that it was very quickly rejected - now that its good to go, it's just sitting there. MaskedSinger (talk) 08:38, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Apologies if I'm being a nudnik, but following up on this...MaskedSinger (talk) 18:32, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

@MaskedSinger: Hey. That's okay and legitimate as I did forget to get back to your previous message (kudos on the word nudnik!). Sorry, but I'm getting married in two weeks (plus we're moving flats and just finished exam period), so life is kinda crazy rn and I don't have the time and patience required to have a look to review. I would suggest trying someone else (there's categories for admins let's say who are more experienced in general - I'd pick at random, have a look at their talk page and interaction, and if they seem nice try asking ;) ) and/or work more on small maintenance edits like we spoke earlier. If you don't manage to find someone for the review try hitting me up again at the end of September? :) Thanks for understanding and sorry for the delay. --SuperJew (talk) 19:00, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

@SuperJew: Mazaltov! Very exciting news. If you happen to have some spare minutes, it's not a long page and as I said, it's been gone over by a super editor. If not, is there a list of admins I could contact. I don't mind doing so, just have no idea, whom to bother ask. MaskedSinger (talk) 19:09, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

@MaskedSinger: Have a look at WP:ADMINLIST. --SuperJew (talk) 19:13, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks @SuperJew: and Shabbat Shalom! Mazaltov on your upcoming nuptials. Where are you getting married? Wonder if I'm already invited ;) MaskedSinger (talk) 14:50, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

In two weeks haha --SuperJew (talk) 15:10, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Mazal Tov! Aufruf is tomorrow? PM me deets. I'll come :) MaskedSinger (talk) 09:26, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Haha yes it is. I sent you. --SuperJew (talk) 09:51, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Hope you're well! Have a new page that requires review. Would you mind taking a look?MaskedSinger (talk) 18:11, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Hey! ^^ Any chance you can help me with this? MaskedSinger (talk) 17:25, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Hey sorry mate, didn't notice this (just got back from 2 weeks in Japan). I'm kinda swamped rn, with uni and life (big test in 2 weeks), so don't really have time to review pages. Hope you understand. --SuperJew (talk) 20:04, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Israel Roller Hockey League

Came across this page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Roller_Hockey_League - the beginning part about the history seems like a mess. A lot of unnecessary text and no references! What can be done to clean it up? MaskedSinger (talk) 20:16, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

You're more than welcome to go ahead and edit it :) Make the changes you see fit. References can be added via the citation template encased with ref tags, for example: <ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-5527451,00.html|title=קופה אמריקה: רק 0:0 לברזיל מול ונצואלה|trans-title=Copa America: Only 0:0 to Brazil versus Venezuela|language=Hebrew|publisher=[[ynet]]|date=19 June 2019}}</ref>. See also for example these changes, which I've been working on recently (similar idea to what you want to do). Best of luck! --SuperJew (talk) 04:49, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

Luke Devere Transfer Brisbane Roar

Hi, you recently deleted my input for the transfer of Luke Devere to Wellington Phoenix. I understand your logic behind this but if you follow this logic, all transfers from Brisbane Roar (Lokolingoy to Sutherland Sharks, Ruon Tongyik to Central coast mariners etc.) should not be mentioned either as these are not direct transfers. These players were released by Brisbane Roar before signing for their respective clubs and were therefore free agents. These types of transfers do not constitute a direct transfer. If you would like to delete Luke DeVere's transfer to Wellington I understand, but you should be consistent and have all other players listed as 'free transfers'. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brisgriff (talk • contribs) 13:43, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

@Brisgriff: You are right, and I have listed those accordingly too. --SuperJew (talk) 15:47, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

1 RR on Wadi Og

You have just broken 1RR on Wadi Og. Please self revert, or you will be reported, Huldra (talk) 22:21, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

@Huldra: There is no 1RR on Wadi Og. And I do not appreciate the threatening tone. --SuperJew (talk) 22:26, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

To quote: "All articles related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, reasonably construed, are under WP:1RR (one revert per editor per article per 24-hour period). When in doubt, assume it is related." (My bolding). I am not going to spend time on this: if you think you can label a Wadi on the West Bank as being "in Israel"...and that this does not come under Wikipedia:A/I/PIA..., heh, good luck with that, Huldra (talk) 22:32, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

As far as I'm able to recollect, the Committee actually clarified that there needs to be a mainspace edit notice for the 1RR component of the ARBPIA DS to come into effect. At any rate, I have now done so. El_C 22:52, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Recreation/Reinstatement of WP:redlinks straight after an AFD occurs

Is there any point immediately reverting and reinstating WP:redlinks straight after an AFD occurs (such as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rendy Juliansyah closed as delete which occurred today by Fenix down, or Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joshua Cavallo (2nd nomination) closed as delete last week by RoySmith)? I think you should be accepting that a person is not notable, rather than a redlink for the purpose of someone who you think is about to become notable again. Matilda Maniac (talk) 10:39, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Since half the votes for Cavallo were "draftify/userfy", as people know he will most likely shortly be making an A-League appearance, I don't see the problem.

Also on a general note, I don't think it's bad to have redlinks even if the page hasn't been created yet - it also allows users to see the players first name in the footballbox, and also there is a link there for when the page will be created and then you don't have to scan back through pages to find the pages mentioning that player and linking them. --SuperJew (talk) 11:43, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

re: category FC players etc

Hi thanks for your comment on the project talk page "..To change that I would suggest opening a more general discussion separately from this which started as a specific question.." What do you suggest - that I start a request for comment discussion ? Or did you mean starting another section on the talk page with a specific heading about the inconsistent parameters used within players/squad categories ? Cheers, RossRSmith (talk) 23:24, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

@RossRSmith: I would think to start with a new section on WT:FOOTY. If it comes to a standstill, maybe a RfC would help. --SuperJew (talk) 05:00, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Youth NPL team name confusion

Hello, SuperJew. Hope the exams were alright. Also, I think you should remove the { exams } template if you're done.

For months now, I've been having trouble trying to find good or accurate names for the youth clubs recreated from the A-League teams.

An example for Adelaide United is that the NPL senior team name is originally Adelaide United Youth. However, in the created articles of a player, the team name says Adelaide United NPL. I don't think that's a good name, because the U20s and U18s play in the NPL as well.

I would put that team in the youth career spot, but it is a senior team because it plays with the other NPL teams. Now this normally wouldn't be a problem, but I can't rename Adelaide United FC NPL to Adelaide United Youth, because it wouldn't make sense if that team name would be in the senior career spot and not the youth career spot

So, I thought I'd rename these NPL senior team to Adelaide United II, mainly because the Soccerway has the names split so that the Y-League team is Adelaide United U21 (U23 now), and the NPL one is Adelaide United II.

--FastCube (talk) 12:14, 4 October 2019 (UTC)FastCube

@FastCube: You are right about the exams - I forgot to remove the template as I was crazy busy with a wedding and moving flat right after the exams :)

Regarding the question, without going into heaps of research and searching rn, it sounds to me like a good idea (especially thinking about German teams which are similar format. I would prefer to see it backed up with more media releases etc. than just Soccerway. Anyways you can always play with the displayed names in an infobox using piping. And as always, I think the best place for these discussions is Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Australia task force as that has the most relevant users watching :) Take care! --SuperJew (talk) 06:27, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

@FastCube:Apart from Soccerway stats pages format, who uses roman numerals in Australia except to differentiate Kings and Queens (and the odd America's cup yacht)? None of this nomenclature is commonly used, and WP:COMMONNAME should be used. The Y-League team articles were all renamed to Reserves a while back, and then renamed after some discussion to the current format. If we are going to use Roman Numerals, why don't we get the media to use this nomenclature, and rename Adelaide United as Adelaide United I while we are at it. If this is going to be a move to change the team names again on all of these articles, please float these ideas at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Australia task force. Matilda Maniac (talk) 14:05, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

@Matilda Maniac: Have you seen the German football clubs? For example, FC Bayern Munich and FC Bayern Munich II name their clubs like this and Soccerway too. Obviously, everyone does this. It will look weird naming Adelaide United (first team) to "Adelaide United I". Imagine renaming all A-League teams from "Brisbane Roar" to Brisbane Roar I or Newcastle Jets" to Newcastle Jets I" It would be a very silly change. And let's be real, all the club names make sense as well. To me, I think you should consider naming the clubs this:

• The NPL senior team: "Adelaide United II"
• The Y-League U23 team: "Adelaide United U23"
• The NPL U20 team: "Adelaide United U20" or "Adelaide United Reserves"
• The NPL U18 team: "Adelaide United U18"

Assuming this un-signed reply was from @FastCube:, I think the premise that "Obviously, everyone does this" is wrong, and I still suggest that if you want to change team nomenclature and article names that you please float these ideas at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Australia task force. Renaming senior teams like "Brisbane Roar" to Brisbane Roar I was sarcasm, designed to highlight that this issue generates a very silly change (whether is Brisbane Roar I, II, or IV). Matilda Maniac III (talk) 01:13, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

There is not enough info in any constellation to have 4 articles about the reserves part of a club. That's why the page itself should be Adelaide United Reserves. Regarding how to display the name on say the page of the tournament, that should be brought up on each tournament's page separately. --SuperJew (talk) 18:35, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

I don't have time now as i'm busy on a minesite, and I encourage you to do so if you have the time or inclination, but I would be intending eventually to be raising this issue at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Australia task force, as @FastCube: is now BOLDLY and RAPIDLY and INDEPENDENTLY renaming the youth pages, splitting pages and creating new articles, such as Adelaide United FC II, Brisbane Roar FC II. I wont have time for a couple of days at least to post there in detail, but maybe i'll start the ball rolling with a short post... Matilda Maniac (talk) 06:37, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

I made these articles, since they are technially not youth sides, they can have their own article. --FastCube (talk) 05:34, 24 October 2019 (UTC)FastCube

@FastCube: That could be the reason for re-naming the page to "ALeague FC Reserves", but all the rest is redundant. What is really concerning is you consistently doing only what you want, while ignoring talk page discussions and consensus. This behaviour makes me think we might need an admin have a look at your behaviour. --SuperJew (talk) 05:53, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

@SuperJew: At least I don't leave articles all messy or like no-one can read the changes I make. But I guess I should know that I should ask if I could make any changes. I can definitely make this better in the future.

One thing I'm making is creating two articles named "List of Adelaide United FC players (25–99 appearances)" and "List of Adelaide United FC players (1–24 appearances)". I'm not releasing them yet, but I think this is a good idea simply because if there's only one page called "List of Adelaide United FC players", it would just be one boring list of players all together.

I think there should be some variety of different articles of how many apps and goals made. What do you think?. Also, can we keep the "A-League Club FC II" pages?

--FastCube (talk) 06:58, 24 October 2019 (UTC)FastCube

@FastCube: How is boring a consideration to here or there for the pages? Someone who thinks such a list is boring would think it split into two lists as two boring lists. The article should be "List of Adelaide United FC players". If that article one day gets big enough it should be split as per WP:SPLIT. --SuperJew (talk) 09:50, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

@FastCube: Regarding the "A-League Club FC II" pages, it should be discussed on the task force talk page, and as you can see from the discussions there, here, and on your talk page, there is no consensus to keep them, and that there should be one page for all non-senior club participation. --SuperJew (talk) 09:52, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

@SuperJew: I'll discuss the "II" pages in the future. Also, don't forget that Sydney FC have split articles of all the Sydney FC players. List of Sydney FC players. And if that's the case, I feel like I can do same with Adelaide United, because Adelaide first played before Sydney did. --FastCube (talk) 09:56, 24 October 2019 (UTC)FastCube

@FastCube: Just because one article exists has something, doesn't mean it's correct (either specifically or generally) --SuperJew (talk) 10:05, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

@SuperJew: Fine, I'll discuss this in the task force talk page. --FastCube (talk) 10:06, 24 October 2019 (UTC)FastCube

Yellow/Red Cards not allowed in AUS soccer match navboxes.

Hello, SuperJew. A year ago, I started inserting yellow and red cards into the Footballbox templates. I thought that I might do that because English and Spanish articles insert cards. I saw that those edits were reverted and I didn't see a reason why they shouldn't be in the football match boxes. So, I'm wondering if you know why they're not allowed.

Also, I'm asking why the level 2-5 competitions in Australia all in one article every year. (e.g. 2019 Capital Football season) I know that we can only find a limited amount of info. But, I'm trying to make a lot of effort into level 2-5 competitions. However, it's kind of weird inserting about four competitions in one year, because it feels like I'm making four pages in one article. I don't have a problem with this, but I feel like the levels 2-5 competitions should be spread out.

--FastCube (talk) 01:50, 21 October 2019 (UTC)FastCube

@FastCube: We had many discussions about the cards and was decided not to have them as they don't affect the scoreline and the big picture of the match which is what the footballbox template is meant to show. Regarding the level 2-5 competitions I don't know as I don't really edit or follow those levels. I'm sure @Matilda Maniac and J man708: can be more helpful :) --SuperJew (talk) 18:37, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Hey boss, I started those season by season articles as I figured they would become something similar to these sorta articles [[1]] and [[2]]. I figured that on their own, they might lack notability, but could easily be placed altogether and on one page. Initially, I did make individual pages for each season (ie. 2012 SA Super League season, 2012 SA Premier League season, 2012 SA State League season), but they honestly got next to no traffic and provided very little additional info to warrant being on their own pages. The current system seemed to be the most logical solution. - J man708 (talk) 03:21, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

Pre-Season Challenge Cup Grand Finals

Hi. Is A-League Pre-Season Challenge Cup Grand Final articles allowed in Wikipedia?

--FastCube (talk) 11:42, 26 October 2019 (UTC)FastCube.

Replying on appropriate page. --SuperJew (talk) 17:43, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

Denise O'Sullivan 2018–19 W League

I know she departed mid-season... that's what guest players are supposed to do, no? She played her seven games and left. ref Or are you only listing guest players who remained on the active roster when the season ended? Mightytotems (talk) 12:20, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

@Mightytotems: In general, how the "foreign players" tables are currently built they only list foreign players who are on the active roster at the end of the season - when the player departs mid-seaons, they're removed. Perhaps we should open a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Australia task force to see if there's consensus to add a column for foreign players who left mid-season, as is done for example in the CSL (like here). --SuperJew (talk) 12:26, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

I'll follow your lead then. Based on this criterion, I'll also remove Jodie Taylor from the table since she's another guest player who left mid-season. Mightytotems (talk) 12:28, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

Fair. She even left earlier. Thanks --SuperJew (talk) 12:32, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

Matilda Maniac's decisions

Hi SuperJew. Whenever I make an edit in an Australian soccer article, it always gets reverted by Matilda Maniac. And whenever I look at the reason, I always disagree. The latest one was me editing Template:Brisbane Roar FC's "Rivalries" section. Matilda Maniac then went and removed it. Matilda Maniac said that information is in the normal Brisbane Roar FC article. I don't understand why he removed that, because these navboxes is supposed to be about all information about the football club. Navboxes is to find what you want easier and I think that he's making it harder.

And to me, I feel like Matilda Maniac doesn't make the right choices. I don't disagree with everything, but most of the time, I just never get a good reason why it's removed. Now, I do understand that there a few red links in these navboxes, but I am working on creating these new links with enough citations for this page to stay up. I know I don't "control" Wikipedia, but I feel like this edit should not be reverted in the first place. So, I'd thought I'd ask your opinion.

--FastCube (talk) 02:00, 15 November 2019 (UTC)FastCube

Perhaps you should discuss with me directly on my talk page, rather than seeking 'permission' from a third party again? I disagree that navboxes "is supposed to be about all information about the football club". Have you a particular component of the WP:MOS in mind?

There's one paragraph on Rivalries in the main article, there are no other separate Rivalry articles. Please create the 2 rivalry articles first - I assume that they are going to be notable as stand-alone articles - and then you have something to link to. The order is important. If you had created these 2 articles first, then adding a rivalries section to a navbox might make more sense.

Please also bear in mind that there appears to be consensus about alteration of Youth team names based on the discussion @ Youth NPL team name confusion, so I intend on making some alterations in this regards tomorrow, so please do not feel that this is in any way a personal attack, whereby your edits "always gets reverted by Matilda Maniac." I am currently working on a draft of a new article on the Women's NPL, which I hope to get to Created over the next week, and I would like some help with that article to improve it, and I think you'd be a great contributor to another Australian women's soccer article (I'll keep you posted). Matilda Maniac (talk) 10:04, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

@FastCube: I think you and MM both want to improve Wikipedia, especially in Aussie soccer. You're also both capable of talking together and making decisions ;) --SuperJew (talk) 17:53, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Brisbane Roar FC II

I went to merge this article – based on your comments (here) – into the Brisbane Roar FC Youth article, and bugger me, its been renamed again (fourth time in four months?) by User:FastCube. Here we go again ! Matilda Maniac (talk) 04:23, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

@Matilda Maniac: Uggh... FastCube, if you are in a middle of discussion about something, it is normal to stop doing said thing until discussion reaches consensus which is acted upon. --SuperJew (talk) 18:10, 17 December 2019 (UTC)