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User talk:The Rambling Man/Arbcom voting guide

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Audience

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Hi there,

Wandered onto your talk page and thus found your voting guide that way. It's good - are you planning on adding it to the list on Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2019/Candidates either soon or after nominations? Nosebagbear (talk) 22:28, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Nosebagbear, I've added it to the category, I had no intention of doing more than that, but if someone else thinks that'd be helpful, I'd have no objections. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 22:35, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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I was the primary editor on one featured article: Kate Sheppard. I did create a couple of featured lists a long time ago, but as standards rose over time they were demoted with no opposition from me.-gadfium 00:47, 7 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"To be clear, I do not particularly want to be on the Arbitration Committee"

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I mean I nearly wrote this myself as I'd much rather be writing content but have had a really bad feeling since Framgate of the distinct possibility of things going really really pear-shaped at some point in the near future. I'm not sure if I can prevent it but I sure as hell will give it my best shot. Hence my running. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:47, 8 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Why?

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TRM, you were de-sysopped for cause. Chris Troutman (talk) 01:09, 12 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that Chris, helpful stuff! The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 09:44, 12 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Chris troutman I think TRM's answer to my question is as good a response to your question as any. Unless I'm misunderstanding the question. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 11:29, 12 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a link in case anyone's interested. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 11:54, 12 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thoughts

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Hi TRM. Standing in an Arbcom election and having a voter guide for that same election is unseemly. I do think it's showing poor judgement to be in both groups. The guides do get read, and make a difference to the election. I'd personally request, that you choose to either be a candidate or a guide writer. And yes, I'm aware that I'm sacrificing my "golden ticket" on this. WormTT(talk) 09:38, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't follow. I'm going to vote in the Arbcom elections. I have thoughts on everyone including myself. Perhaps you should add this to the Arbcom RFC next year, banning those who participate from having a guide? I guess, also, if you think it really is "poor judgement" then I'm sure the voters will reflect that too. Your golden ticket is secure, whether it's written here or not. And why haven't you offered this advice to every one doing this, just a subset? The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 10:14, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The Rambling Man, it already is. However, I would be arguing against that - I absolutely do not want it banned, people should have the right to do so if they want, I just don't like it. The voter guides really do make a difference to the outcome of the election, I've been following them for years and you can see by the views and the aggregated results that they tie pretty closely. Having candidates directly influencing the vote on other candidates is a pretty big conflict of interests - it encourage attacks, tactical voting, and overall makes a bit of a mockery of the system. As I say, this is just an opinion and one I'd rather say directly to you rather than whinge about it elsewhere. If you don't want to get rid, that's fine - as I say, I'll be arguing that you (and others) should keep the right to do so in next years RfC. WormTT(talk) 10:16, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and I've only spotted 2 that are doing the voter guide and candidate combination, and I've offered my thoughts to both. I'll look again if I've missed anyone. I did, I've now added the note there too WormTT(talk) 10:17, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That's a really interesting perspective. I guess this marks out Wikipedia as unique that standing candidates should be disallowed or discouraged by a sitting Arb from giving their personal feelings on others running. Nowhere in any other democratic system in the universe is such an approach disallowed/discouraged. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 10:19, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia elections are odd. We don't do "campaigning" in the same way, indeed "canvassing" is banned in other areas. I guess it's the "AGF" thing, we focus on the positive rather than the negative. I know I'm a sitting arb / candidate, but given that I'm also "supported" by all three guides that I've suggested removal of, I felt I was in a reasonable position to make the request. You are by no means beholden to the request as it's a personal request, I have no authority in the matter. WormTT(talk) 10:35, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
When you say "it already is", are you referring to a ban on guides from running candidates? If so, that would be the most appropriate message I would have imagined, rather than the "poor judgement"/"unseemly" thing. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 10:22, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I mean, it already is on the docket for the WP:ACERFC2020 discussion. It's not banned and as I say, I'd argue against banning. WormTT(talk) 10:32, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, well I'll credit our users with a level of intelligence that means they are able to determine themselves whether they think my comments on other candidates (which happens in every other democratic system in the universe) are "unseemly" or demonstrative of "poor judgement". By the sounds of things, it'll only reduce the support for me: I'd rather that than compromise my thoughts and feelings here. That smacks of censorship to me, and something which is entirely undemocratic. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 10:37, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've been considering this issue since you nominated yourself, and I'm somewhat inclined to learn towards WTT's rough position - it's non-ideal but shouldn't be prohibited. Obviously any candidate could do it, but I'd rather our ARBCOM elections didn't involve candidates criticising others - particularly because if everyone got into the game, the guides could become suspect with thoughts of tactical reviewing (you do me and I'll do you). Nosebagbear (talk) 10:57, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I think our voting users have enough intelligence to handle that. The Rambling Man (Staying alive since 2005!) 10:59, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Several of the candidates have voting guides. I can't see anything wrong with it, especially as (in this case) TRM talks up so many of the other candidates. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 11:51, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'm one of the candidates to whom it has also been intimated that candidates should not write voter guides and that I should decide whether I want to write one or not be a candidate. Believing this to be the case, I have removed my guide, and then to be told a few minutes ago by another Bureaucrat that I did not need to remove it. With all due respect to WTT, I think he is out of order. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:32, 13 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.