User talk:Thundersnow/Archive 1

Perkins-Rockwell House, new pic by One Fat Squirrel Thundersnow

Hi! Hey, thanks so much for uploading pics--and great ones!--for several Connecticut historic sites. I happened to have edited one or two of the articles previously and I noticed your contributions on my watchlist, then browsed to see more. It is really great to see the articles brought to life by real photos, such as done by your multiple pics on Quaker Hill Historic District (Waterford, Connecticut)! Great work! P.S. It is inspiring me to add a bit more to the text of the articles, too.  :) --doncram 01:07, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Great work on the "unused" page

		The Photographer's Barnstar
		You should be getting multiple barnstars for this. Thanks! Smallbones(smalltalk) 22:04, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. My contributions to Wiki Loves Monuments have less to do with photography and more to do with wanting to be an accountant "when I grow up", though. Thundersnow (talk) 15:31, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Any idea...

how many pictures you (or you plus others) have placed in the county lists so far? I wouldn't ask, but since you're going to be an accountant when you grow up. {:-/

Smallbones_(smalltalk) 04:28, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

That is not fair, as accountants get to use ledgers and/or programs to keep track of the entries and I have not done that.

However, using ErfgoedBot's contributions to the unused list from here, and fudging with the glut that happened on the 4th/5th, it listed about 2,500 images. Allowing for multiple images from the same sites being deleted, plus ones that have been added by hand and never got caught by the bot, I would guesstimate around 1,500 to 1,800 images have been added to lists since September 1st. That is a depressing number because, even at my high-end guess, it is only 2.25% of all separate listings on the register (80,000 according to the NRHP article).

Alternately we can assume an average of 50 images a day, which equals 900 up til today, with suitable consequences to the percentage of listings.

Why did you want to know?  Thundersnow  09:51, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I understand that this has to be a guess, and you've done a good job at it. It roughly matches what I thought. The number of previously unphotographed sites photographed is just a natural way that folks at WP:NRHP think - a measure of success so to speak. All in all 3-5% over the month would be a good result - the "easy sites" were photographed a long time ago. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 13:43, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I make statistics. You can just use diff to see how much images where added: 43022 - 38970 = 4052. Keep up the good work and in case you're bored: Wikipedia:WikiProject India/Wiki Loves Monuments/Unused ASI Monuments images‎‎. Multichill (talk) 19:49, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Very nice. I do not know what all the columns indicate, but I like your number much more than mine. Also, never send an accountant to do a statistician's job.

Effeietsanders is knocking out the India page. I will check in on Canada then go work on my current hobby: NRHP images without ref numbers. Most of that is on Commons but I find a few images to be used here.  Thundersnow  01:01, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

You're doing an awesome job :) I couldn't dream of catching up with you - I just did a bunch of Indian ones again, but they are much tougher than many other countries. More images which have been tagged wrongly etc :( (which is not always obvious). Anyway, yesterday a lot were removed because some monuments had more than 200 submissions! (mostly by different individuals) effeietsanders 13:13, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Did it all get turned off in the last couple of days? Smallbones_(smalltalk) 10:14, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

The US has not updated although ErfgoedBot is updating five other country lists. I asked Multichill but no answer yet.  Thundersnow  10:23, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

For all that you do!

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		In appreciation of your extensive work in the tedious job of adding images to the NRHP listing pages! Altairisfar (talk) 14:35, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for this. I am only tireless when I am not sick, however, which is why the acknowledgment was delayed.  Thundersnow  18:12, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Hope you are feeling much better! Altairisfar (talk) 16:57, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

My new word for the week is "bronchitis". (I even had to look up the spelling.) The old words "Monday" and "holiday" are eliciting the new combination of "Tuesday, dammit!" Breathing figuratively sucks; the literal aspect of that activity is making me want a tank of oxygen. Thanks for the hope, though. Thundersnow 07:51, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Uploading Monument pics

Now that the upload button has been removed from all the NRHP pages, how do I upload pics manually and still get all the categories and the NRHP reference number added? Can you point me to a howto on this? For example, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Garrett_County_Courthouse.jpg, nrhp 75000899. Actually adding the pic into the article seems more straight forward, but is there some magic there as well? Will getting the other info tagged on the image make the bot toss it onto the unused page, and then people like you do the rest? I don't want to collide with automatic processes or established procedures. Thanks. --Generic1139 (talk) 19:21, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Now that the magic button is gone you will have to upload it manually, from the Upload Wizard at Commons. Once at least the county category [[Category:National Register of Historic Places in Garrett County, Maryland]] is added (the category window suggests categories as you type, but it is really fussy about caps and spelling; if it says it will make a new category you probably spelled something wrong), the bot will place the image on that to-do list you mentioned and it will be placed on at least the county list by an editor. The {{NRHP|75000899}} should also be added (by hand) to the description but that can also be handled at another list. Since you know the NRHP# you can search wiki with it and it should bring up the county list, at least (the example brings up both list and article); you could then place the image yourself. If the image is used in a list and still gets listed as to-do by the bot it will just be deleted from the list by the next editor that works on it - no big deal. Thundersnow 19:40, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Blue Hills Headquarters, etc.

Although I obviously don't think that two images are too many, particularly when the text is pretty thin, I won't argue the point.

Please consider, though, adding {{Commons}} to articles so that readers can see the rest of the structure easily. Thanks, . . Jim - Jameslwoodward (talk to me • contribs) 14:05, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

I add the Commons link when there are categories or list pages at Commons for the site. If there are only a couple of images in the county lists I do not. Thundersnow 14:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Looking at the particular article, there are three lines of text, only one of which is not duplicated in the infobox. One image is sufficient to acquaint the reader with the subject. Wikipedia is not an image gallery. Thundersnow 14:20, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

As I said, I can't argue with your point of view. However, Commons is an image repository, and a link there is all I asked for. . . Jim - Jameslwoodward (talk to me • contribs) 14:34, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Winners announced

Dear TS,

Please see WT:NRHP

Smallbones_(smalltalk) 16:46, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Comment at WT:NRHP

My response to your last question may surprise you. I've been thinking about your project for a long time and think it is endless, but this is not a criticism, just a request for clarification from you and other project members.

Keep up the good work,

Smallbones_(smalltalk) 02:44, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

What you said does not surprise me, and any project is endless if it is never started. Thundersnow 03:04, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

BTW, I didn't know the proper terminology, but I had the most remarkable experience with thundersnow in the Chicago Loop years ago, lightening and big flakes among the skyscrapers. Is your name related to some such experience? Smallbones_(smalltalk) 04:38, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Aye. I have been in 5 thundersnows, and I have never been to a lake effects area like Chicago or Buffalo, nor climbed a mountain, although one happened while driving through the Poconos. I took the name because of the look of shock on a Califorian's face the first time in one. The ones I have seen have been greenish (hence the green theme), but that one bled more blue/purple. It was wicked. Thundersnow 04:47, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Bullock's Pasadena pictures and other pic deletions

Hi, i don't understand your removal of pictures from Bullock's Pasadena article. I reversed your edit by this edit restoring the pics. Multiple pictures certainly help in an article. In this case, you removed a picture that showed curved eaves and other elements of the place's Streamline Moderne architecture that I think is why it is NRHP-listed. Streamline moderne is a style evocative of ocean liners' design; see Normandie Hotel, about a hotel modelled after the original SS Normandie ocean liner, as one extreme example. The pic you left in the infobox doesn't convey anything about that architecture. I'll watch here and would see any reply.

Thanks for all your work adding newly available pics to many articles. cheers, --doncram 16:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I disagree that multiple images help articles, especially when the images do nothing to explicate the text. The whole building is an example of that architectural style. Adding images of details without excyclopedic context about those details is using an article as a gallery, and that is not good. Thundersnow 05:28, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

To follow up, that is horrible. The one pic you had kept shows hardly anything of the architecture, and does not convey streamline moderne at all. --doncram 23:49, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

I noticed and reverted your removal of images at excellent article Casa Paoli. I hadn't seen your reply above about the Pasadena article. If that is your position, that you believe multiple images don't help articles (?!), and if you are proceeding to remove images in more cases, then that is quite alarming. Your removal of pics in the pasadena article reflected ignorance about the architecture involved. It would be one thing for you to use some tag to call for more captioning, or call for explanation, but it is destructive to simply remove images in articles in a general way.

Have you done this in many articles? I am concerned that I or others are going to have to go through a lot of work to review your other contributions. --doncram 16:15, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Okay, i am officially horrified at what you have done to numerous articles, going back to November 1, in terms of your removing hard-won photos added through a lot of work by editors such as myself. All seemed to be NRHP articles. I came across several articles where you removed photos of mine, actually, but I am perhaps most horrified at your removing Historic American Buildings Survey photos by Jet Lowe and others, that other editors had carefully added to articles, which provide great perspective about the changes or similarities in NRHP properties over many years. And you seem to routinely delete galleries. Obviously multiple pics help convey more about a property. I tried to be careful for a while in reviewing your work to ensure that other small changes you made were re-added in my reversions, but eventually i just switch to reverting all.

I believe you are well-meaning but misguided. I think you might have a different view, coming from your work placing newly uploaded photos, that you think photos are cheap and easy to obtain. That is opposite my view and that of many editors, that we have gone through hell to get places and take photos, or to research and find photos, and that we are seeking to illustrate articles. You cannot blithely disregard this effort and just drop useful stuff.

So, for now, could you agree to stop removing any photos whatsover from any article, please. I would like to ask for you to consult with others, e.g. at wt:NRHP, if you think any removal is possibly justified. You may well not want to take my advice; you have a right to disagree with my view; however, if you do disagree, would you agree to have some review, I suppose in the form of a discussion at wt:NRHP possibly to be identified as a RFC. But I will say, it is not just my concern. I saw, somewhere, perhaps at User talk:Nyttend, another couple editors expressing concern at your deletion of photos. I was not aware of the scope of what you have been doing, and perhaps the failure of others to give you feedback, until now. I'll watch here for your reply.

For the record, I have gone back through your contributions to November 1, and reversed your deletions at articles including:

23:29, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+77)‎ . .Moratock Park ‎ (Undid revision 523513599 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
23:28, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+198)‎ . .Old Alton Bridge ‎ (Undid revision 523693124 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
23:27, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+443)‎ . .Mappa Hall ‎ (Undid revision 523494611 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
23:26, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+680)‎ . .Fort Snelling ‎ (Undid revision 523455446 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
23:23, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+1,108)‎ . .Camp Springs House ‎ (Undid revision 524170047 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
23:22, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+80)‎ . .Union Church of Pocantico Hills ‎ (Undid revision 524629291 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top)  
23:21, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+160)‎ . .Hibernian Hall (Boston, Massachusetts) ‎ (Undid revision 520838051 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
23:15, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+156)‎ . .Wang Theatre ‎ (Undid revision 520840823 by Thundersnow (talk) it was not marked sourced. indicate source needed or something, don't randomly delete.) (top) 
23:14, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+112)‎ . .Citi Performing Arts Center ‎ (Undid revision 520840975 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
23:13, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+140)‎ . .Paris Cemetery ‎ (Undid revision 520848118 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
23:12, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+89)‎ . .Bowsher Ford Covered Bridge ‎ (Undid revision 520849050 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
23:12, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+100)‎ . .Taylors Falls Public Library ‎ (Undid revision 520851206 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
23:10, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+482)‎ . .F. M. Howell and Company ‎ (Undid revision 520854740 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
23:09, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+281)‎ . .John C. Breckinridge Memorial ‎ (Undid revision 520855192 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
23:03, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+110)‎ . .Brooklandwood ‎ (Undid revision 521114599 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
23:03, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+80)‎ . .Fisher Hill Reservoir ‎ (Undid revision 521115271 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
23:02, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+270)‎ . .Brooklyn Borough Hall ‎ (Undid revision 521121001 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
23:00, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+106)‎ . .Burden Ironworks Office Building ‎ (Undid revision 522086121 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
22:59, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+284)‎ . .Burden Iron Works ‎ (Undid revision 522086162 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
22:58, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+65)‎ . .Burnt Cabins Gristmill Property ‎ (note it is a HABS photo by Jet Lowe that was previously deleted) (top) 
22:57, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+70)‎ . .Burnt Cabins Gristmill Property ‎ (Undid revision 522089731 by Thundersnow (talk) undo, but re-add some info added)
22:18, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+535)‎ . .Bodie Island Light ‎ (Undid revision 520591207 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
22:13, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+126)‎ . .Warwick Furnace Farms ‎ (Undid revision 520969884 by Thundersnow (talk) wrong. i think it is part of the site.) (top) 
21:26, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+175)‎ . .Old Lock Pump House, Chesapeake and Delaware Canal ‎ (restore multiple images) (top) 
21:21, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+91)‎ . .C.G. Meaker Food Company Warehouse ‎ (restore helpful pic) (top) 
21:00, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (-81)‎ . .Crow Canyon Archaeological District ‎ (re-remove one that was added to the infobox) (top) 
20:59, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+197)‎ . .Crow Canyon Archaeological District ‎ (restore images bizarrely removed)
20:57, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+274)‎ . .Camillus Union Free School ‎ (Undid revision 523453624 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
20:56, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+164)‎ . .F. A. Kennedy Steam Bakery ‎ (Undid revision 523451816 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
20:55, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+261)‎ . .Dallas Arboretum and Botanical Garden ‎ (Undid revision 523480466 by Thundersnow (talk) restore images, other) (top) 
20:53, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+85)‎ . .Mont-Joli railway station ‎ (Undid revision 523976401 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
20:51, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+111)‎ . .Camp Sherman Community Hall ‎ (Undid revision 524169547 by Thundersnow (talk)) (top) 
16:17, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+22)‎ . .Captain Robert Bennet Forbes House ‎ (caption) (top) 
16:17, 24 November 2012 (diff | hist) . . (+87)‎ . .Captain Robert Bennet Forbes House ‎ (Undid revision 524633507 by Thundersnow (talk)) 

and previously Bullock's Pasadena and Casa Paoli. Sincerely, --doncram 23:49, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

This has been moved to the NRHP talk page. Thundersnow 16:52, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Comments at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/WLM-US 2013 discussion

Would definitely be appreciated. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 04:14, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	Thundersnow, thank you for adding all the unused images of monuments to the lists. Multichill (talk) 13:12, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Smallbones_(smalltalk) 01:08, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram opened

An arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram. Evidence that you wish the Arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence sub-page, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram/Evidence. Please add your evidence by June 2, 2013, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can contribute to the case workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Doncram/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, (X! · talk)  · @811  ·  18:28, 10 January 2013 (UTC)