User talk:WVUArtHistory

Your submission at Articles for creation: Justin Kerr (November 13)

Your recent article submission has been rejected. If you have further questions, you can ask at the Articles for creation help desk or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help. The reason left by S0091 was: This submission is contrary to the purpose of Wikipedia. The comment the reviewer left was: Wikipedia is not a a "how to" guide and this draft is blatantly promotional.

S0091 (talk) 22:26, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

This page was not unambiguously promotional. It is trying to document the work of an important Maya scholar mentioned on a number of other pages, and a page does not exist yet about Justin Kerr. In the same way that noted Mayanist Michael Coe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Coe) has a Wikipedia page, Justin Kerr should also be recognized for his contributions. A tag existed for him under "rollout photography" that led to a nothing page. So, I was trying to update it regarding his important work rather than making an entirely new page that is subject to such weird stipulations under your rules. I will not continue to work on this if isn't going to yield anything because I am a college professor, and I was just trying to make Wikipedia stronger for my students utilizing the web resources associated with Justin Kerr. WVUArtHistory (talk) 22:34, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Hello, WVUArtHistory! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! S0091 (talk) 22:26, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

The page certainly was unambiguously promotional. A very large proportion of its content was written in an adulatory tone, clearly intended to convey to the reader a good impression of Kerr and his work; it was not written from anything like a neutral point of view, as required for a Wikipedia article. JBW (talk) 22:47, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

I disagree with the use of the term promotional because Kerr was the first in the field of Maya archaeology to complete this type of photography, as evidences on the rollout photography page. I was merely trying to add some context to that article about the man himself and the databases that exist to find these archived materials. Nearly everything Mayanists have done in the last 50 years is related to these photographs that are now being archived for posterity by the Dumbarton Oaks Museum. We are talking about the development of this field for Mayanists, which is NOT promotional. It is FACTUAL. Moreover, a huge portion of this was Kerr's own wording about the development of this method from the 1970s and 1980s. So, this whole deletion is ridiculous. Please see the other article on Coe about rationalize this better: Michael D. Coe WVUArtHistory (talk) 22:52, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi @WVUArtHistory, Michael D. Coe is a decent article so I suggest following that format but as JBW stated above Kerr's publications are not independent sources. Wikipedia is not a how to guide so it cannot be used to help students to utilize/navigate Kerr's web resources. If that is your intent, then Wikipedia is not the forum even though your intention is in good faith. Kerr may be notable but he would need to meet either the notability guidelines for academics or people in general. Along with the Welcome message below, you may find WP:EXPERT helpful and maybe even [1]. S0091 (talk) 22:53, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Is it possible for you or someone to just START a simple page on Justin Kerr that could be added to over time? I don't care if we delete everything I added here due to whatever reason you want to give (i.e. copyright issues, promotional, etc.). Eventually this will be crowd-sourced and added onto, but I am focusing on the idea that a page should already exist since it was tagged in a previous article about rollout photography and it was a dead link. That is where I am getting hung up here. I just wanted to add the links to his bibliography stuff and realized more could be added onto, but I'm not going to give this a whole lot more time.

Kerr is still a living person, so I am assuming just like the David Stuart (Mayanist) page or David Freidel pages, but he certainly meets this WP:Academic criteria:

1. The person's research has had a significant impact in their scholarly discipline, broadly construed, as demonstrated by independent reliable sources.

WVUArtHistory (talk) 23:07, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

@S0091: I didn't even mention Kerr's publications, let alone say they weren't a reliable source. JBW (talk) 23:05, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Sorry @JBW. I was in the middle of posting a reply when you replied and then amended my response horribly. You are correct, of course. S0091 (talk) 23:14, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

WVUArtHistory, I don't know what you have interpreted the word "promotional" as meaning in this context, but none of what you say has any bearing on the question of whether the text you posted was promotional or not. It is perfectly possible to write in a promotional way about someone who was the first to do something, and as for "a huge portion" of being Kerr's own wording, many people write in a highly promotional way about themselves and their own work, so I cannot imagine why you think that is a reason to give to show that the writing can't have been promotional. JBW (talk) 23:05, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

The text I excerpted was about the development of his process in creating the camera, and how he recalled those events. Lots of excerpted first-person accounts exist on other Wikipedia pages from diaries or other entries. Why wouldn't I think that was a valid way of talking about the camera development? Promotion (for me) is about monetary incentive or sales, and all of his books are out-of-print now. I was just trying to emphasize his contributions to the field using some of his own words. I acknowledge the section on how to use the website should be removed and never have been added in.

Again, I saw a gap, and I thought something should be written. You already auto-deleted this post because of all the reasons you have listed. S0091 was perfectly welcoming, but this will be my first and only article attempt on your website. I am sure you answer random people all day long about all the stuff they try and post, but this has been an awful use of the last hour of my life. WVUArtHistory (talk) 23:22, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Limited quoting is allowed (couple sentences) but not swathes of content unless it is explicitly CC BY-SA. Copyright is a legal issue thus quite complicated and Wikipedia is very strict in it's interpretation, likely because Wikipedia is CC BY-SA (you can republish Wikipedia anywhere with attribution). You are correct in your thinking about Wikipedia being crowd-sourced but even still critical policies and guidelines must be followed.

As far as promotional content, being financially compensated is not the only trigger. Advocacy in any form is not allowed and neutral point of view is a non-negotiable policy, even if unintentional. If you believe Kerr is notable, I suggest a skeletal draft. See Susi Wurmbrand for an example which is I just accepted today. S0091 (talk) 23:40, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

• I have some ideas about this which may be helpful to you, but I don't have time to write them up now. I'll try to get back to uou tomorrow. JBW (talk) 23:24, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Draft:Justin Kerr

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A tag has been placed on Draft:Justin Kerr, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, group, product, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read the guidelines on spam and Wikipedia:FAQ/Organizations for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. S0091 (talk) 22:26, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Welcome!

Hello, WVUArtHistory, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created may not conform to some of Wikipedia's content policies and may not be retained. In short, the topic of an article must be notable and have already been the subject of publication by reliable and independent sources.

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, ask me on my talk page. You can also type {{help me}} on this page, followed by your question, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! S0091 (talk) 22:27, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Copyright

It is almost never suitable to copy content from another web site to Wikipedia, for more than one reason, the most important being copyright. When you post anything to Wikipedia you release it for anyone in the world to reuse it, either unchanged or modified in any way whatever, subject to attribution to Wikipedia. It is very rare that the owner of a web site licenses content for such very free reuse, and in those few occasions when they do so, we require proof of the fact. We don't assume that content is freely licensed on the unsubstantiated say so of just anyone who comes along and creates a Wikipedia account. Certainly we can't accept text previously published on a web site which has a copyright notice saying "all rights reserved", as in the case of material you have posted Frankly, I find it astonishing that it should be necessary to inform a college professor of this. JBW (talk) 22:51, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

November 2022

Welcome to Wikipedia. Because we have a policy against usernames which give the impression that the account represents a group, club, organization, company, or website, I have blocked this account from editing. You are welcome to continue editing after you have chosen a new username that complies with Wikipedia's username policy.

You should also read our conflict of interest guideline and be aware that promotional editing is not acceptable, regardless of the username that you choose. Additionally, if your contributions to Wikipedia form all or part of work for which you are, or expect to be, paid or compensated in any way, you must disclose who is paying you to edit here.

Please take a moment to either create a new account, or request a username change of your current account here. The new username that you choose must represent you as an individual person, and it must comply with Wikipedia's username policy.

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Thank you. Spencer^T•C 01:12, 14 November 2022 (UTC)