User talk:Wiki Raja/Archive 5

References! references! references!

As for your specious claim that you have given me all the references that I have asked, let me make one thing clear - I know you have plastered dozens of irrelevant references on all those talk pages. I dont know what those references are, I have not clicked on them and I wont be wasting my time checking them.

If I ever asked you for a reference, it was this. Prove to me that Carnatic music, for example, was a purely Dravidian tradition or atleast that it originated from Dravidian traditions. If not Dravidian traditions, atleast prove that it was of 'South Indian' origin. Prove to me that Bharatanatya was a purely Dravidian tradition... and so on. If you cant prove with sources that they were purely Dravidian traditions, you have no right to brand them like that.

If you can give me this one reference, I will back off and let you do what you want with any of those pages. Thanks.

And please dont ping me again until you have the above proof I am asking for. I am least interested in your Malayo-ethiopian-chinese japanese rant. I never asked you to prove whatever it was that you were trying to prove there using those references. Sarvagnya 22:40, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

First of all, the title you have presented References! references! references! shows me that this is a sign of frustration. I'm sorry, but it was you who kept asking me to provide references. I have already provided all the references I could possibly find. With your refusal to look into the references I have provided as per request, it proves to me that your rash claims of Carnatic music and Bharatanatayam came from the moon is outsourced with no references. Maybe I put too much references to back up my claim. I hope this was not too much. Please accept my humble appologies for disproving you time and again. Kind regards. Wiki Raja 22:47, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Yakshagana

Please see my message on the discussion page.thanks.Dineshkannambadi 01:42, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

spelling

Thanks for fixing my spelling. It's not my strongpoint --Calcprgmer10011 03:40, 8 February 2007 (UTC) -calcprgmer10011

Please stop spamming pages with irrelevant links

Please do not add inappropriate external links to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a mere directory of links nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Inappropriate links include (but are not limited to) links to personal web sites, links to web sites with which you are affiliated, and links that exist to attract visitors to a web site or promote a product. See the external links guideline and spam policies for further explanations of links that are considered appropriate. If you feel the link should be added to the article, then please discuss it on the article's talk page rather than re-adding it. See the welcome page to learn more about Wikipedia. Thank you. India Rising 06:26, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

With all due respect, I was engaged in dialog on that page which required links to support my case. Sorry for the confusion. Regards. Wiki Raja 06:29, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

If that were only the case in one page, then it would be ok. But you kept pasting those links in multiple pages, including articles where they had no relevance, suggesting that you were trying to propogate some sort of crank agenda to make Indians look bad. My apologies if that was not your intent, but that is what it served to do.India Rising 06:32, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Appology accepted. Hope there are no hard feelings with the confusion. Regards. Wiki Raja 06:51, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Martial Arts origin

Hi. Just noticed you had corrected a spelling error on an article I had edited, and thought I'd look up your userpage (just out of curiousity). I noticed you seem to be quite interested in martial arts, if your user page is anything to go by. I was wondering if you could answer a question for me: would it be correct to say that Chinese and Japanese (and all other Asian) Martial Arts originated in India? Thanks. --Mal 13:40, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes and no. Well for one, the India we see today did not exist before the arrival of the British during the 1700s. Prior to that, India was actually smaller kingdoms and countries. As for martial arts going to China and Japan from the Indian sub-continent. There are legends that state Bodhidharma was the one to introduce the 18 Lohan and formed Shaolin Kung Fu. In India itself, many people claim that their art was the one that reached China. For example, in the southen state of Kerala, is the martial art Kalarippayattu. Because it has been so popularized since the late 1990s people think that was the art which influence Chinese Kung Fu. There was even a documentary on the Discovery channel here which blunty stated that. However, that would be false since Kalarippayattu was formed between the 11th and 13th centuries CE, while Bodhidharma went to China during the 6th century CE. Also, most biographies on Bodhidharma state that he was born in Kanchipuram which is situated in Tamil Nadu and not Kerala. So, since Bodhidarma was alive 500 to 700 years before the birth of Kalarippayattu and he was born in Kanchipuram I have found a source that he studied the Tamil martial art Varma Kalai in the book called Varma Cuttiram: A Tamil Text on Martial Art from Palm-Leaf Manuscript published by the Institute of Asian Studies in Chennai, Tamil Nadu.

I would also disagree the he walked north over the Himalayas as most people tend to believe about how people used to travel to China from the Indian sub-continent. Not only would crossing the Himalayas be difficult, Bodhidharma would have to go through hostile kingdoms like that of the Chalukya dynasty just north of the Pallava kingdom in present day Southern India. Note that during those days both the Pallavas and Chaluiyas were at rivals with each other. Also, the Pallavas had a navy who travelled frequently to Southeast Asia and as far as China and Japan. Interesting book to read on this topic would be Traditional Cultrual Link Between India and Japan. So, Bodhidharma would have travelled to China by ship to China.

As for Southeast Asia, the arts there were influenced by both the early Pallavas and later the Cholas from Tamil Nadu. At the time there was no Tamil Nadu or Kerala but Tamilakkam (otherwise known as the Ancient Tamil country) which included parts of Sri Lanka at the time. But then, all martial arts did not come from present day Southern India. If one were to study the ancient Tamil literature and the natural disasters such as the recent 2004 tusnami we would find that there was some connection between Southern India, Australia, and Eastern Africa. Tamil literature such as the Silappadikaram and Manimekalai mention of great floods and of how cities were buried under the sea during the early part of the first millenium. What they were referring to was a tsunami. There was also a tsunami during the early 1900s in that part of the world too. The 2004 tsunami has unearthed much more pieces of evidence in the ancient city of Mahabalipuram in Tamil Nadu. Recently scientists have been doing underwater excavation [1][2][3] of what they call the Indian Atlantis, or the Lemuria (continent) (called Kumari Kandam in Tamil). Well, they have found architecture buried in the Bay of Benglal which they believe could be part of the 7 pagodas of Mahabalipuram. Only one pagoda is standing today.

There is a possibility that the martial arts we see today in Tamil Nadu and Kerala must have its origins from Africa thousands of years ago and evolved over time. Some of the ideas and concepts of martial arts introduced to China also had its own devlopment which later was introduced to other parts of Asia too. I hope this lengthy message was of benefit. Hopefully there could be more research in this department of martial history. Regards. Wiki Raja 19:55, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Lay Delegate?

I was working on the new article for Parramatta Salvation Army and there seems to be a problem with the Info bar. I can't seem to remove the line Lay delegate. Do you know how to do this?

Regards

(Thebandweekly 01:41, 9 February 2007 (UTC))

I went on there and fixed the glitch. Were you just talking about taking off the {{{lay delegate}}}, or taking off Lay Delegate line completely? Wiki Raja 03:30, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Dravidian_map.JPG

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bgs

haha, thanks for fixing [4] that up for me, mate. im an idiot :S Kiran90 12:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

STOP CALLING OTHERS "VANDALS" WHEN THEY ARE NOT. IT IS A PERSONAL ATTACK.

Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you.

This is your formal warning. I have informally let you know many times that a content dispute is not vandalism. You continue to call my reverts of your blatant POV, vandalism. Stop it and stop it NOW. Your {{tl:WPDRAVCIV}} and {{tl:Dravidian topics}} are contentious and do not have the approval of the community. First obtain the consensus of the community before you start using those templates everywhere. Sarvagnya 20:14, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me, but what authority do you have to tell what WikiProject I should or should not form? Who do you think you are? Approval from what community? Is Wikipedia privately owned by you. As for personal attacks, I have not attacked you. It isthe other the other way around. I do not attack people on the basis of the race, ethnicity, religion, nationality, or creed. Not once have I mentioned anything about such. However, in regards to you, you have blatantly accused me of a number of things which I have not done. You have called me names, and worse, you have condemned a whole ethnic group. What do you have to say about that? Lastly, do not come to my talk page with such threats. This is not a warning from you, but threat. Using all capital letters in a message equates to yelling. Therefore, let me remind to stop threatening and harrassing me. I have spoken to you with respect in the previous posts. In return you have posted abusive messages directed at me and my ethnicity. Your messages only spew hate. Wiki Raja 05:02, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Please stop. If you continue to make personal attacks on other people, you will be blocked for disruption. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. Thank you.

This is your second warning. I have warned you before not to misrepresent others' edits as being vandalism. You first accused me(more than once) of vandalising article/s. Now you've accused another editor(an ip) of vandalism here. I am warning you to stop misrepresenting other people's edits or you may be blocked from using Wikipedia. Sarvagnya 00:24, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Your recent request for Checkuser

Just letting you know, I added it to the IP check section, and deleted the subpage. This was per these instructions. Cheers, Daniel.Bryant 06:54, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Wiki Raja 06:55, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:Fireandice2.jpg

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Hey there

Hey Wiki Raja! You recently created Wiki Raja break, which is in the mainspace. Since it's a template for your own personal use, it probably belongs better as a subpage of your userspace. I have listed it for speedy deletion so that an admin can move it to your userspace - you can use it in exactly the same way as before, except it'll be out of mainspace. Hope that's OK with you! :) Cheers, riana_dzasta 12:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Wiki Raja 00:30, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Break template

Hi Wiki Raja,

I've moved the template Wiki Raja break you recently created to User:Wiki Raja/Break, because it does not belong in the main article namespace.--Carabinieri 12:13, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I should have used the sandbox. Regards. Wiki Raja 00:29, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Followup to copyright mail

Hi Wiki Raja,
Just to add to my mail that I've since been reminded of the {{bookcover}} licence; this may (or may not) meet your case (cf Wikipedia:Copyright and Wikipedia:Image copyright tags). Yours, David Kernow (talk) 18:21, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Your images

I see that you've uploaded dozens of images to wikipedia. While you have very graciously released it on 'GFDL', you say nothing about where you got the pics from. I mean did you click them/draw them yourself or did you beg, borrow or steal from somewhere. Please update your image with proper info about source or all of them may get deleted. Sarvagnya 00:56, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Please stop with the demeaning insults. Wiki Raja 01:05, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Stop crying and add proper sources to your images and prove to us that you didnt steal. btw, cpvio is stealing. Sarvagnya 01:07, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Stop harassing me on my talk page. You are giving me a hard tims is because of the issue you have created in regards to the Dravidian Topics template page, and the fact that I have passed all the tests you have put me through. This reminds me of the story of the 12 Labors of Hercules. Wiki Raja 01:15, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Did you draw those maps and that artwork yourself? If you copied it from a book, it may be invalid use. Please specifiy more detailed information about where you got the pictures from. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:48, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

With all due respect, Sarvagnya is on a capmaign against me. Because, I disagree with his POV he is doing everything he can to get me in trouble. As for the Dravidian topics template, there were no problems until Sarvagnya started removing parts of the items off the Dravidian topics template. We then got into a heated debate where he asked for sources to back my claims and in regards to the template. I have provided referenced sources every step of the way. On the other hand, Sarvagnya was not able to even show one source. He has also been engaged in personal attacks against me and against my ethnicity. Another administrator brought to our attention to perhaps change the name of the template from Dravidian topics to Dravidian and South Indian topics. I have agreed to do so. But, the others demanded it be called South Indian topics. Where is there any fair and balanced justice? It was only Sarvagnya and another user Gnanapiti who are against this template. If there are any violations of the template, please work with me and let me know how to go about it. Is it too many listings of topics? Or anything else? The sole purpose of this template is to link users to Dravidian related topics. Also, as an educational tool of interest to topics which are not heard of much or deserve attention. If there is anything I can do to fix this situation, please let me know. I have reported Sarvagnya for his incivility towards me and others here. I am sorry that it had to come to this. Kind regards. Wiki Raja 03:25, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

There are aspects of the template which are useful in separate pieces, but not in one single piece. For example, separate templates for South Indian dance, South Indian cinema, South Indian martial arts are OK, but to combine them with geography, ethnicity all at once, is pulling too many unrelated things together. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:33, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I am still asking you about the legitimacy of those pictures. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 03:33, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, I would like to take care of this picture situation. I have used the colored map (blue and yelow), from a book cover. As for the black and white map, I have taken that from one of the pages from a book. I am not an expert in these matters and would like to take care of this situation. Please tell me how to go about reporting where I got the pictures from in a correct format. If I am not allowed to use those pictures, I will be more than happy to draw out the maps. Next, on the Dravidian topics template. I understand the ever growing love amongst the Indian wikipedians for their country. However, there are people that are feeling threatened by that template including the map. That should not be the case. Dravidians are not only in South India, but are also in parts of Central India, parts of Sri Lanka, parts of Pakistan, and parts of Bangladesh. You see, this template is basically a linkage to various sites on various topics of different Dravidian civilizations (Kannadigas, Malayalees, Tamils, Telugus, Gonds, and Brahuis). Tamils are both in India and Sri Lanka, while the Brahuis are in Pakistan, and tha Malto are in Bangladesh. Dravidian is the same in classification structure as that of Malayo-Polynesian (Malays, Javanese, Timorese, Samoans, Tahitians, etc.) I hope you understand my explanation. If there is anything that is going against Wikipedia policy, I would like to clear that up. If having a Dravidian topics template goes against Wikipedia policy, then please tell me another way of doing this. Perhaps a Dravidian civilizations series template? Kind Regards. Wiki Raja 05:22, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, I would like to take care of this picture situation. I have used the colored map (blue and yelow), from a book cover. As for the black and white map, I have taken that from one of the pages from a book. I am not an expert in these matters and would like to take care of this situation. Please tell me how to go about reporting where I got the pictures from in a correct format. If I am not allowed to use those pictures, I will be more than happy to draw out the maps. Next, on the Dravidian topics template. I understand the ever growing love amongst the Indian wikipedians for their country. However, there are people that are feeling threatened by that template including the map. That should not be the case. Dravidians are not only in South India, but are also in parts of Central India, parts of Sri Lanka, parts of Pakistan, and parts of Bangladesh. You see, this template is basically a linkage to various sites on various topics of different Dravidian civilizations (Kannadigas, Malayalees, Tamils, Telugus, Gonds, and Brahuis). Tamils are both in India and Sri Lanka, while the Brahuis are in Pakistan, and tha Malto are in Bangladesh. Dravidian is the same in classification structure as that of Malayo-Polynesian (Malays, Javanese, Timorese, Samoans, Tahitians, etc.) I hope you understand my explanation. If there is anything that is going against Wikipedia policy, I would like to clear that up. If having a Dravidian topics template goes against Wikipedia policy, then please tell me another way of doing this. Perhaps a Dravidian civilizations series template? Kind Regards. Wiki Raja 05:24, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

If you look at the template, there are similar groupings for similar dances, similar martial arts, cimilar scripts, similar music, similar language, geography. In a separate form, they may be alright, but together, they connect too many weakly connected materials, and would not stand. Separately, they may stand. Secondly, the maps, they are from books, so they are not permitted in this case, because they are not used to describe the textbook, but rather to use their cartography work for our purposes. So those cannot be allowed. So I would have to delete them. As for the artwork of the people, where did that come from? Blnguyen (bananabucket) 05:52, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

So, from what I understand is that this template is too broad? Would you say it would be like having a template on all Southeastasian topics? If so, perhaps can I create several different templates (Dravidian martial arts, Dravidian dance, Dravidian literature, etc.)? Also, I have no problem with you deleting the two maps. Can you explain to me what you mean by "artwork of the people"? Regards. Wiki Raja 05:56, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I was referring to File:Fireandice2.jpg and the other two similar pictures. Also that Lupin cartoon is definitely copyvio is it not? Unless you are the author of that cartoon. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 06:03, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, that picture with the people came from a site for the animated motion picture called Fire and Ice, some really good animation for the early 1980s. As for the Lupin III, no, I am not the author of that pic. Sorry, I am not really well acquainted with the policies on uploading pics. You can take those off if you want. In the future, if I upload any pics, can I come to you for advice on how to properly document them? Regards. Wiki Raja 06:10, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

May I ask if those dance photographs and animations were photographed or created by you? If they are not, please go back to the image pages and say where you got them from. Thanks, Blnguyen (bananabucket) 06:43, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Could you please point out which dance photographs (the bali dancer?) and animations you are talking about? Wiki Raja 06:46, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, almost all of them, the Bali dancers, other dancers, the animation of the martial arts. If they were not your photography, you have to say where you got them (if they are allowed). Also the scripts - where did you get them from. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 06:51, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

There is only one dance animation. All the martial arts, scripts, temples, and empires maps were taken off from Wikipedia. except for the bali dancer animation which was taken from the internet outside of Wikipedia. You are most welcome to remove the bali dancer too. Regards. Wiki Raja 06:58, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

no problem

thanks for your kind words. i'm sorry i couldn't help further. seems like the discussion has gotten ridiculously out of hand. quite admirable of you to keep fighting so professionally! --SameerKhan 02:30, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Wiki Raja 02:32, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Reply to your map question

Message copied for continuity - I have noticed that you have removed the pic used for the Template:WPDRAVCIV on 02:37, 11 February 2007. Could you please recommend what I should do? The map was taken from a book cover. So, should I reupload the pic and state that it was taken from a book, and then give the title and author of the book? Or should I draw up a map of my own? Your advice would be appreciated. Regards. Wiki Raja 04:07, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Please see WP:FAIR#Policy #9. Non-free images can only be used in article space and then, only under an appropriate claim of fair use. We can use book covers to illustrate an article about the book, but not just because it has a picture that is helpful. The simple version of it is that you can use Bob's work for an article on Bob or an article on the work itself - you can't use Bob's work for an article on something else or somebody else. Also, please note that any manipulation of that map would merely be a derivative work - and thus, non-free. Really, the only solution is to find or create a free map. Wikimedia Commons has a number of free maps - see Commons:Category:Dravidian languages - maybe one of these images would work? I hope that helps. --BigDT 04:34, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Would I be able to change the colors? I really like the colors used in the map earlier removed. It stands out pretty good. Also, would I be able to make the free maps offered bigger? Wiki Raja 06:21, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Dravlinguamap3.JPG

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your image uploads

please stop uploading unfree images. see the comment on my talkpage. Pleas also stop uploading thumbnails copies of images already on Wikipedia. What on earth is the point of that?? (Image:Manuscript.JPG, Image:Mongloian Empire map.gif, Image:Aztec Empire.jpg, Image:Inca Map.jpg etc.) It's annoying, and pointless. dab (𒁳) 09:10, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't know. I will keep that in mind next time. Regards. Wiki Raja 14:27, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

As for the [Image:Tamil map3(edit).JPG], I created that myself. Please tell me what to do to reupload that. Regards. Wiki Raja 14:29, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Template:Dravidian topics

Hello Wiki Raja. The template you made about Dravidian topics is being discussed for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion after someone listed it there. My opinion which I have given is that it could be combined with the existing template about South Indian topics. But because I think you have a different opinion, I am informing you so that you can put your ideas forward. -- Ponnampalam 18:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)