Hi Porchcrop. I thought I'd create us a nice quiet chatting area, away from prying eyes. It is still on wiki though, so like everything on wiki, it can be found. I'd like you to be as honest as you can be and I would like anyone who ever does end up here to take that into account, it is not meant as a public comment.

So let's have a getting to know each other session. I know a bit about you from reading some of your history, but not that much, so I'd like to ask a few questions. You don't have to answer any and if you'd feel comfortable answering others on email (especially the *d ones) please do.

IRC times

Hi Porchcrop. I was on this morning, but not for long. I'm on all night tonight. Actually I'll make a table.

UK Time available	NZ equivalent
Tonight (Saturday) til about 11.	Today (Sunday 27th) until about Midday
Tomorrow Morning (Sunday 27th) 7? til 9	Sunday 27th 8pm - 10pm
Monday 28th 6 - 11pm	Tuesday 29th 7am - midday
Tuesday 29th 6 - 8am	Tuesday 29th 7pm - 9pm
Tuesday 29th 6 - 11pm	Wednesday 30th 7am - midday
Friday 1st 5 - 10pm	Saturday 2nd 6am - 11am
Saturday 2nd 5 - 10pm	Sunday 3rd 6am - 11am

Hopefully, you'll be able to make one of those slots, I think we should have a real-time chat :) I'll need some forewarning, especially if I have to get up early! Worm^TT · (talk) 19:38, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm. I was a bit busy this week. But next two days I might have the time. :) Also many times I am busy because of school. While other times I am busy in life. I've sent you an email on which times I have school running (in NZ times). -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 10:08, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers, I've just replied by email. Worm^TT · (talk) 10:15, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like today I wasn't on IRC when you were online. :( But hopefully at some time in the next week. Every week keep updating the table so that I know which times we can have a chat. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 22:24, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'll try, but I'm actually not on IRC that often. I'll let you know. Worm^TT · (talk) 09:10, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Questions from Worm That Turned to Porchcrop

1*) Totally optional, I just think it might help me get to know you better. Which age bracket do you fall in? Under 13, 13-16, 16-20, 20+

Answered via email.

Thanks for that. Also, where abouts are you from? Trying to get timezones right, I think we should possibly try an IRC chat at some point. Only need to know the time zone. Worm^TT 09:26, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am now living in New Zealand. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 22:43, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The other side of the world then. Not making this easy are you :P Worm^TT 08:44, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah. Hehe. :D -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 22:36, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You're nowhere near Christchurch are you? That was rather scary. I have another mate in New Zealand, but luckily he was on the other island.Worm ^TT 23:33, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No hehe. I live in Auckland. Hahahahaha. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 01:06, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ah that's alright. Did you even feel the earthquake there? I've never been in one myself. Well. I may have been in 2 or 3, but they were while I was asleep, I didn't notice. As for IRC, what sort of times are you available (weekdays and weekends)? would be good for us to have a proper fast moving chat :D Worm^TT 10:31, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't feel the earthquake. But I sympathize with the people living in Christchurch, their families, friends, and loved ones. And I pray for the people living in Christchurch. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 07:58, 16 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2) What's your favourite food? (there is a reason for this!)

I eat meat and vegetables. I have chips and nuts. I eat some types of fish. I like some fruit. And for occasions of desert, chocolate.

Well, I was aiming for something more specific, I think food articles are one of the easier ones to get to Good Article status, and I think you could do with at least 1 Good Article. If not food, is there anything else you'd be interested in working up to GA status? Worm^TT 09:26, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You could help me to know about good articles. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 22:43, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed I can, I think I'm about to get my 7th, but the first thing you need in creating a good article is an article you are passionate about, perhaps a subject you are interested in. So, whilst I am interested in Cornish food and drink, I very much doubt you have the same interest. So, what do you like? What are you interested in? Worm^TT 08:44, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have many different favorite subjects, so I'm not so sure. But probably the software and football related articles. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 22:35, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, well that's a start. Football is a bit vague for me, are we talking Association, American or Aussie rules?. What team do you support? Do you have a local team and a premier team? Software, what sort are we talking? Games? Applications? Mac? PC? Consoles? What's your favourite game? Sorry for asking 9 questions there!Worm^TT 23:33, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I mean any sport team articles. And any kind of electronic software. I would do alot of research for any article and find sources and information and put it on Wikipedia. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 01:06, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Any? I've had my eye on the Exeter Chiefs article for a little while, they're a rugby team from my old city. It's currently at 1738 characters, so I've been thinking about getting it up to a 10k character article, which would qualify it for DYK and probably a good article too. Think you might be interested there?

What team/sport do you support/follow? Also, what's you're favourite computer game?Worm^TT 10:31, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

3) What do you expect from this mentoring experience?

I want to gain a little bit more experience and understand some policies and guidelines a little bit more. So that after the ban expires, I never (otherwise rarely) get negative responses and alot of positive responses on my edits, and have a successful RFA.

Well, I'm sure you've seen how I've argued the ban on ANI. I think I've helped consensus to say that you shouldn't do anything that is generally considered an admin job for the next 6 months. So no Non-Admin Closures, not declining speedies, no working the UAA queues etc. BUT as I read it, you can still make the reports/speedies, comment in deletion discussions etc - acting like a good faith editor. And critically, I've got agreement that you are not banned from submitting an RfA. Right now, an RfA would be a Terribly Bad Idea^tm, which I think you know. I get that you want to be an administrator and I will argue vehemently against anyone trying to take that away from you. But I'd like more information on why - see more below. Worm^TT 09:26, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

4) What areas of the encyclopedia do you feel you've significantly added to?

I have done various tasks to keep the project running well. But with now me being banned is totally going out of the way. My tasks are like vandal fighting, helping other editors, helping newcomers, putting pages up for deletion, dealing with inappropriate usernames, etc. My tasks can also be like creating useful pages and templates. I am also a WikiGnome and WikiElf.

Well, this a a place I work well. I'm a gnome myself, I've fixed up many little things on articles. But out of 5000 edits, only 25% are in the main space. Now, if you were gnoming and vandal fighting, I'd expect a higher percentage. How come it's so low? I do think that you should be aiming for 40% minimum (or at very least it should be the largest segment) to show you're committed to building the encyclopedia. (By the way, have you considered opting in on that edit counter? It gives a lot of very helpful information, see mine)Worm^TT 09:26, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

While the ban is running, I will do less maintenance and more article work. What do you think about that? -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 22:45, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds great, I think that it will help. Have you considered opting in to the edit counter?

Yep, I just opted it. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 22:35, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting information there. Looks like you've picked up a lot more work in the last 3 months. Also the article you have editted most is Maximum Boy, with a total of 13 edits. That implies you haven't done much article building. I've known people oppose RfAs because there's no article with 100 edits! 100! Extreme, but once we've got you building Good articles, things should look better there.Worm ^TT 23:33, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

But if you could help me with article building, then I could end up with 100 edits to a specific article. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 01:06, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

5) You are very succinct with your answers - I can live with WP:TLDR, but the opposite is a bit difficult to judge. I noticed this in your RfA questions too, people generally find that very short answers give the impression of not listening to the question or not caring about it. Do you have an opinion on this?

Normally I can explain things to others (WP:AGF) -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 22:35, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I'm telling things as I see it, I know you can explain things to others but short answers on wikipedia look curt and disinterested. I can show you examples of it going down badly at RfA if you like, or at RfC/U. I've got the odd example in my head. It's natural for people at your age to want to communicate succinctly, but if you can explain a bit around what you want to say and answer all questions posed you will appear much more mature.

As for WP:AGF, you will find that I take AGF further than a lot of people - too far in many cases, and if you assume the assumption of good faith you will find it difficult to find a single situation where I have not. This mentorship is not a short term solution and not plain sailing - I will be telling you hard truths, not to insult you but to help you. You have the choice of whether to accept what I say or not, but what you learn here will go down to your core as a wikipedian (and possibly a person) - not teaching lessons of text like in school. Policy and guidelines you can learn by yourself through reading with patience, what I'm aiming to mentor you in is very different. Worm^TT 23:33, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh. Normally I don't explain everything (as a human, I can miss some parts of my explanations). Also I normally do assume good faith and assume the assumption of good faith to other editors. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 07:46, 16 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

6) What do you like about wikipedia? Why do you come here?

I like to help keep Wikipedia running well. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 01:06, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. Why do you like to do it? Worm^TT 10:17, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It is only one of my interests to help keep the encyclopedia in good shape. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 07:46, 16 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

About Adminship

1) What do you think an Administrator on wikipedia is? Not so much the role, but the status

An admin of Wikipedia has extra tools to take control of the project.

Well done, that's the ideal stock answer. I have a picture of you standing in a military acadamy shouting out "An admin of Wikipedia has extra tools to take control of the project, SIR!"

Well how about this for a follow up question - do you think there is anything special about admins? Of the tools, which is most important, and why? Worm^TT 09:26, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think all the tools will be useful in their own specific ways. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 22:43, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not a helpful answer to "which is the most important and why"... They are all useful in their own ways, yep, but to you which one would you think is most useful? I'm trying to get to the bottom of what benefit you see being an administrator. Worm^TT 08:44, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

From the areas I have been working, it would be the blocking and deleting ones. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 22:35, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is that so? You have less than 11 edits to WP:AIV - so you would have made less than 11 vandalism blocks. You have about 200 unaccounted edits in Wikipedia space, which over the time you've been here works out at 5 per month. How much has been spent in WP:XfD? Or are you just talking about speedies? You shouldn't really be working in speedies until you're very good at WP:XfD... That leaves WP:UAA, which I grant you is a reasonable place for you to be using the block and view deleted items... but are you really telling me that you are passionate about making sure people have the right username? Really? If so, can you explain why you are interested in that area? Worm^TT 23:33, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For XFD processes, I know that the page is to be deleted by consensus. But I may need a little bit more practice with speedy and proposed deletion processes. I haven't contributed to AIV so much. But UAA, I have some experience in. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 07:28, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't really answer my questions. I'll ask in a different way. You say that the tools that you would use most are blocking and deleting based on the areas you have worked in. Besides UAA, how many times have you needed the tools and not had them, had to ask an administrator to help? 1-5? 5-10? 10-20? 20-50? 50-200? more? I think you'll find you are in the bottom 2... bottom 3 including UAA.

I'm also curious as to why you are interested in UAA. It sounds like a chore to me.Worm ^TT 10:16, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would say 20-50. And UAA, I am dealing with usernames in accordance with the username policy. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 07:46, 16 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2) What sort of member of the community becomes one?

A positive member that has understanding of the policies and guidelines.

It would be nice if that were the case, wouldn't it? But it's just not. I'm a positive member - I have a lot of enthusiasm for the project. I have read and re-read policies and guidelines for years and think I've got them down to a tee. But if I were to go for adminship, I don't think I'd get it. I might be lucky and hit 60%, but that's about it. The problem is I don't have experience in areas that require administrators meaning there's no logical progression to needing the tools.

What about someone like Giano? He's clearly a positive member who knows the policies and guidelines, as can be seen by his work. But there's more too adminship than understanding, there's the way you act, the way you interact so much more.

Boing! said Zebedee, only became an admin last month, after 3 years and nearly 35,000 edits. He had the total respect of the community and could have breezed through the RfA process (which he did), but do you think that he was less of a member of the community before last month? That he was given less respect?

In my opinion, the person who becomes an administrator has to have a reason to hold the tools and trusted by the community to hold them. Do you think I'm well off the mark here?

Boing! said Zebedee had alot of respect, I know that. Yep, you are correct, an admin has to be trusted by the community. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 22:43, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What about the other thing I suggested, that an admin has to have a reason to hold the tools? I'd say that's pretty vital, I don't know of any admin who got the tools for no reason. What I'm seeing from a lot of the feedback is that you are trying to create a reason for the tools, which is causing you to fall down. Worm^TT 08:44, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Admins would be preferred to have a reason to hold the tools. But a reason is not necessarily needed, they need to be trusted people. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 22:39, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. I don't agree with you there but I'm glad I've found that out :) Worm^TT 23:33, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

3) In what way do you think you are that member?

Because I have helped out to keep the project running well.

Indeed you have. And the fact that you have helped out, the fact that you have shown such passion has made me believe that you are currently a net positive for the encyclopedia. But I think you can be a lot more positive, I think you can be a great editor and a very well respected member of the community. When that happens, I'd nominate you for adminship myself.

But I have to re-iterate, given my thought that the administrator has to have a reason and be trusted by the community, in what way do you think you are that member?Worm^TT 09:26, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think I am ready for adminship yet. But I have only been helping out alot in the project. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 22:43, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You have been helping out a lot, I agree - and yes, I can see that you accept you are not ready for adminship, you've been taking some very positive steps to show that. Worm^TT 08:44, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

4) Why do you want to be an Administrator?

Having the extra tools will help me to contribute much better to the project. And I will also be able to judge other users better, since I can see their deleted edits.

First point, I don't agree with at all. Nope nope nope. The tools will not help you contribute better. They would help you contribute differently, in more difficult areas, making hard decisions. But better? No. There's a HELL of a lot to be done on this wikipedia, and the work that the administrators (while essential) is without a doubt not the most important. Building and protecting this encyclopedia is essential, that's the best work that anyone could do. What do you think?

As to the second, well, I can see where that might be true, if you're say in UAA and all their edits are deleted. But in general? Most editors have more than enough edits to judge them on. For example, one of my adoptees, User:Mikeymand was banned earlier this week for being a vandalism only account. When I took him on the 18th Feb, he had 7 edits to his name, all in user space, one requesting an adopter. I assumed good faith and put myself forward. By the time he had accepted, he had made this edit and two like it. I could see this would be tough. I didn't need to see deleted edits. You can tell more than enough by the visible ones. I'd suggest that perhaps, just perhaps... the reason you want to see the deleted edits is that you can't. The perfectly natural human response to want what you can't have. What do you think?Worm^TT 09:26, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well maybe you're right. The tools are for editors that have perfect understanding of policies and guidelines. (I meant that the tools will help me to deal with things more.) -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 22:43, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oddly, I don't agree with that either. Perfect understanding is almost impossible, and given the size of wikipedia very difficult to get. No, I think that administrators specialize. For example, Moonriddengirl, she knows more about copyright and plagiarism than anyone I can think of, and while I have no doubt she has a good understanding of the rest of the policies, I'm sure she has to look up things if she gets involved in other areas.

I'm not trying to berate you or your answers here, I'm just trying to get you to see administration for what it is. Worm^TT 08:44, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

7) IRC chat, given you're 13 hours ahead, it's going to be a bit of a difficulty trying to get this sorted, but I really do think it will help. What sort of time are you available? Proably a weekend will be sensible, but if we went for a weekday - I assume you get home some time around 5? Then you seem to stop editing around... 8? [1] (I'm taking it from the analysis of your editing patterns, then trying to get my head around a 13 hour time difference. Weekends, you seem to edit all day on a Sunday, so a Sunday may be best...

Hmm. I haven't used IRC for some time, but I'll start using it more often. And there is also an impediment in using IRC -- that is I don't know which script is the best to get and use. Which script are you using? Which script is the best to get and use? -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 04:42, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I'm on a mac, so I use Colloquy and when I used to use a PC, I used mIRC. But don't worry too much about it, I just saw on your user page that you used IRC and I thought it would be good if we could have a proper discussion. I'm sure we'll work out a why to sooner or later. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:20, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

mIRC is payable, so it would be useless. I am using Chatzilla at the moment, which can only run on Mozilla Firefox. I only want to know which is the easiest to get and use, and can run anywhere. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 06:53, 19 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

really? When I used mIRC it was shareware, you got a 30 day trial, then you "should" register and pay. There was nothing requiring you to though, and I kept mIRC on my computer for years ignoring the message. (similarly for winzip!) We do have a Comparison of Internet Relay Chat clients article if that helps Worm^TT · (talk) 10:22, 19 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yep. IRC is now resolved. I am using many different scripts -- XChat, mIRC, pidgin, freenode and ChatZilla. So I might be able to use any of these scripts (with me using XChat the most). But I'm just wondering about mIRC, you're saying it is shareware. What do you mean? Are you talking about the 30-day trial? -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 07:05, 20 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Shareware is a way that large portions of software are distributed. Often you get limited functionality and can pay to get full, or you get a trial period after which the functionality reduces. With mIRC, you get a trial period of 30 days, after which is pops up a note that says your trial is over. You can click ignore and carry on using it. I'll let you know when I'm next available for chat, I'm not on more than a couple of hours a week and they don't generally match the hours you'd be awake. Worm^TT · (talk) 09:39, 22 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh I see what you mean with mIRC. I had downloaded mIRC recently, so I don't know about the "Ignore" button you get when the trial period expires. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 02:33, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Questions from Porchcrop to Worm That Turned

1) You may have struck your question on your page, but I think this deserves an answer. "But you're saying not to become an admin. Why? I would also like you to help me to become an admin."

Well, there are a few reasons. Firstly, I am not an admin myself, if I were to put myself forward I am not confident I'd pass. Since I have never passed the gauntlet, nor indeed failed, I do not feel qualified to coach you. Secondly, the community has sent a clear message that you are not ready to become an administrator, I'd need a good reason to overturn this - though time may tell. Finally, I am not experienced in all areas of admin work and worry about a "blind leading the blind" approach..

It looks like you have RFA has a unanimous amount of support, so you will obviously pass. When you become an admin, you can start training me in the admin areas. The two admin areas that I am banned from will happen when the ban expires. I do have reasons why I think adminship would be useful and helpful for me. Although I am not intending to run anytime within this year, especially because of my topic bans, nor am I too eager for adminship. However, I am back to wanting to become an admin, with more reasons and by following WP:DGAF. In fact in my opinion, I don't think the administrator right is enough for you. Even the checkuser right will be right for you.

Replied below.

2) Will your mentoring help in any way for me to get a successful RFA?

If you fully engage with the process, become a great editor and show patience, then yes. I do actually think that this mentoring will lead to a successful rfa for you. Timescale, depends on how much you engage, how much you take the advice of me and others on board. Beeblebrox suggested a year, but I think we could turn you around in less. You need to understand the points I make (even if you don't agree with them) and I need you to actively discuss them with me too (especially if you don't agree). When we go through your editor review, I'll explain why people have difficulties with your approach to adminship and we can work on them together. Worm^TT 08:44, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, adminship will be the very last goal, even if we add more - and there's a likelihood we will. Just so you are happy I'm in it for the long haul, depending on how this mentoring goes, it might take over a year before you are ready to run for adminship, you have a lot of stages to get through first. I commit to you, here and now, that I will mentor you all the way up to you being ready to run. Worm^TT 10:21, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Really? That sounds great! -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 07:28, 16 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, as I've said a few times, it's going to take a while. We've got to get you to be a great editor first, working on articles, contributing to discussions, actually getting involved in the community. Make no bones about it, depending on how much work you put in, this could take 3-6 months easily - more if you become busy. Once you've spent a little while at that level, we'll look into you helping out in areas that might lead to administration tools, and after a while if you are enjoying your work in that area, we'll get an admin who works in the area to assess how you're doing. If he/she thinks you're doing a good job, that is the point we'll consider putting you forward for adminship (and at that point, I'd nominate you myself). Worm^TT 08:50, 16 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. We'll need an admin to assess how I am doing. The only place to look for an admin to assess me is at WP:ACOACH. Should I make request at admin coaching now while my ban is running? Please let me know when to make request at admin coaching. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 06:29, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Woah woah woah. The only place to look for an admin at admin coaching? I very much doubt that! I think you've missed a couple of points I'm making. Firstly, the community isn't ready for you to be working in admin areas yet. I advise you to be very cautious in any reports you make - be 100% sure before you do. You need to spend more time working as an editor, contributing to the encyclopedia - as in building articles and participating in discussions.

Once you're doing that, keep doing it. And then do it some more. And a bit more. THEN and only then (please tell me you realise this is now a while away) should you start working more in admin areas. If you've been nominating absolutely uncontroversial UAAs and the like, you should be ok. We can get an admin FROM THE AREA YOU CONTRIBUTE to look at your contributions. It won't be difficult to find one, they're generally very open individuals who are happy to help.

But please please please try to understand how close you came to being blocked for disruption. And the disruption was trying to be an admin. This is why you are topic banned. They've been very good to allow you to carry on nominating UAAs and there was little discussion of being blocked - but it WAS there. If you are to regain the trust of the community, you will need to work on becoming a great editor and not give the impression you are still thinking about adminship as a primary goal. It would be even better if you ACTUALLY stopped thinking about adminship, I can but hope. ;) Worm^TT · (talk) 19:23, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't know that ANY admin that contributes in the area(s) you work are willing to assess your contributions. But however, if you see my block log, you will see that the log is empty. And my ban is just a mini-ban, not a full ban. Since I have had alot of negative feedback and rarely respect from the community, but rarely positive feedback, I feel that getting blocked or fully banned would only make it worse. Since the community will be happy to say that my record had a block or ban (not this mini-ban). -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 09:54, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Porchcrop. I know your block log and your history, and I saw that there was hope. You've never gone over that line, and I'm here to help you from not going. But I'm trying to stress that you were close to the line, a lot close than you might have thought. You are right, it's a mini-block - but if you had not managed to get mentoring, it may well have been more.

Regarding feedback - I've noticed you mention a few times about "positive and negative feedback" and "compliments and scoldings". I take a very different view, that there is no such thing as "negative" feedback, and people of wikipedia are not scolding you. Comments about things you "have done wrong" should be seen as suggestions for improvement. If you keep making the same or similar mistakes, that's when issues arise - and since I've been mentoring you, that's not happened. Worm^TT · (talk) 10:11, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

3) How many lessons do you have in your adoption school?

There are 8. You can carry on with other work at the same time, there's no rush to finish them all. I'd rather you actually got them done properly than rushed them. I must also point out that they are the minimum I'd expect for a good editor, not for an expert. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:31, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

4) Okay. How do I do DYK or GA?

Aha, well that's a good question. It's probably best to start with DYK. To get an article to DYK status, you have to create a new article with at least 1500 characters or expand an old one by 5x. It's not as hard as it sounds, 1500 characters is 2-3 paragraphs. They need to be well sourced (at least 1 per paragraph). Then, you need to write a "hook", which is a fact relating to the article, designed to reel people in. The hook must be sourced. Have a look at some of the hooks I've made at User:Worm That Turned/DYK.

A GA is meant to be an article which is up to Good standard. The criteria are here. It takes quite a lot of work, but I've managed it on say, BLT or Bacon ice cream.

Could you explain and demonstrate to me how you got BLT and Bacon Ice Cream to GA?

Well, it's difficult to explain. If an article meets the good article criteria, so it's very well sourced, very well written and so on, it gets reviewed as a good article. I spent a while writing the articles, getting them up to scratch and then nominated them when I felt they were ready. Now, if you have an article in mind, I'm happy to offer tips as you're working on it. But until you have an article you want to target, it's very difficult. Worm^TT · (talk) 09:59, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. Can an article be both, DYK and GA? -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 07:40, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, indeed the majority of my GA articles also appeared at DYK. by the way, I'm on IRC if you fancy popping on. Worm^TT · (talk) 07:51, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What does 5x mean?

5-fold increase. so if it originally had 2000chars, it would need 10000chars Worm^TT · (talk) 12:47, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

5) Which are the best places to find sources? What type of sources are the correct sources for Wikipedia?

Very good question. My rule of thumb is that sources should be independent of the subject and have a robust editorial process. So, decent newspapers which don't have to print retractions every five minutes can be a good place for biographies. Many books that aren't self published can be a mine of information, Google Books can be very helpful (it has a preview and full view method) for online sources. Also, it will give you hints for books that you could go and read at your local library. Many topics just don't have sufficient coverage online, so you may have to look offline. Certain websites can be regarded as reliable, if you can be sure they have an editorial process, but it's often a judgement call and the better your article is, the better the sources need to be. I see you asked feyd the same question, I'm interested to see his response. Sorry I've not been around a few days, went for a short break and fell in a lake. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:21, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Did you fall in a lake? How did you fall in? Did you manage to get out?

Yes I did, I was sitting on a rock with my girlfriend admiring the beautiful Loch Lomand, when I decided to get up and skim a stone. Unfortunately, when I got up, I stood on a wet rock, slipped and found myself in the water. It wasn't very deep but I did get over half my body wet, which wasn't fun since I had a 4 hour drive ahead of me. What a fool

6) For the next final test, will it be okay that I don't do the questions I got right?

Next time we do the final test, I'll set you some new questions, based on the ones you got wrong, rather than the ones that you got right. But don't worry, you did do very well, we were expecting you to carry on with the adoption anyway :)

I'm now a bit confused with the final test. The first one I did not pass. The second one was unanswered because you were on a break and the time limit had exceeded. Hurry. Quick. My ban is expiring in two weeks.

No, the second one was unanswered because we didn't agree that you'd do it - I hadn't written any new questions for you, nor discussed what I'd expect. If you think you're ready for another test, I'll see what I can knock up for you this week :) Worm^TT · (talk) 16:15, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ah. While I am not actually ready for the test again yet, but still please set up the questions. But however, only exclude anti-vandalism and other questions that I passed in my first test. -Porch corpter (contribs) 10:02, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've set up the new test. Let me know when you're ready for it, and I'll copy it over for you. Instead of the same questions you've already answered, I've come up with something new, which looks at your communication skills. Worm^TT · (talk) 14:48, 31 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

7) Where do I find all 6,869,364 articles, the article subjects and the article categories on Wikipedia?

What, in a list? There's Special:AllPages, though it's rather unwieldy. There's also Special:Categories, again quite difficult to negotiate. Not sure about the subjects - what do you mean by that?

Why do you want all the articles?

The subjects, I want to know a place that wraps up all articles in specific subject(s). The reason I want to find all the articles is to know which articles I like.

8) I just want to know, what does WP:EFD do?

Nothing at all. It's just a bit of a joke, suggesting that editors should be deleted - generally for silly mistakes. Worm^TT · (talk) 09:47, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ha ha ha. It sounds so funny to have an XFD process for users, as users cannot be deleted. -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 09:51, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

9) What kinds of sanctions does WP:WQA do?

WQA is designed to find an alternative to sanctions really through talking and other dispute resolution techniques. It doesn't really hand out sanctions in general. Have a look through it's archives to see how they achieve it!

What dispute resolution process is after WQA? Does this lead to arbitration? Is the next one RFCC then arbitration?

That depends very much on the outcome of the WQA and the rest of the situation. Generally, it doesn't "lead" anywhere, but if there's a pattern regarding the user, perhaps an RFC/U is appropriate. RFC/U does indeed often lead to arbitration, but that's mostly because people want to go to arbitration and use RFC/U as a pitstop on the way, not as RFC/U is meant to be used.

10) WP:PARAPHRASE states that this is a copyright violation:

Source: "The employees say they will not be leaving until they meet with Mr. Carson"
Article: "They insisted they would refuse to leave until they had met with Carson"

I'm not certain how this is a copyright violation. The text and sentences does not entirely match. Could you explain how it is a copyright violation?

Firstly, sorry for the delay in replying - and thanks for leaving me the reminder. It's important to remember what exactly is retained under copyright and what can be copyrighted. In general, the thing that is copyrights is human creativity. (Works of art by animals can't be copyrighted!) Now, in text, the creativity goes beyond the words (which I agree have been changed) to the sentence structure. In other words, you could go through the entire sentences and change every word for a similar one using a thesaurus, but the creativity involved is more than that.

However, there is the counter argument, that there's only so many ways in which you can say some things. For this reason [[WP::PARAPHRASE]] is an essay - not policy, and sometimes the decision is borderline. They're not regarded as strict copyright violations, though they are problematic edits. It's best to write completely in your own words - there's quite a skill involved in that.

11) When copying text, material or content from Wikipedia to another site (of mirrors and forks), do you have to state that the content is copied from Wikipedia from that website (per the CC-BY-SA license)?

And as well, can mirror/fork sites be modified anytime with there being a public history on the mirror/fork sites (per the GNU/GDFL license)?

Yes, you should say that the material is taken from Wikipedia to match the CC-BY-SA license. There are some out there that don't though, through laziness, but they are violating copyright. And, yes, the mirror/forks can be modified as long as they stay under the same license. If they want to change the license it gets a bit complex... you'd be better to ask someone else.

Okay. Do you know the differences with this license and this license?

Well, CC-BY means that anyone can build upon your work and license their work however they like, as long as you get credit, however CC-BY-SA means that anyone who builds upon your work needs to use the same license. There's a good explaination here Worm^TT · (talk) 12:04, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

12) What is exactly trolling, and the ways of trolling?

Trolling is posting comments to an online community with the express purpose of causing a reaction. Demiurge suggested that the comments should at odds with your own, but I don't make that distinction. There's lots of ways - I'm not going to go into them due to WP:BEANS, but generally its causing drama for the "lolz".

13) Why is "vote" spelt as "!vote"?

That's a computing term. ! is an operator for "NOT", so saying !vote means "not a vote". It's a silly joke which is basically trying to point out that all though this vote looks like a vote, it's not actually a vote because we say it's not a vote.

Ahh. Just like in Java and Javascript where you use "!" as in "not".

Worm^TT · (talk) 12:04, 9 November 2011 (UTC) Exactly.[reply]

14)I recently tagged an article per G7, do you know which one it is looking in my deleted contributions?

That'd be Randeep Sondhi - you G7'd within a minute of it being blanked, then the author removed and added more info. By the time he'd finished it was CSD under A7 Worm^TT · (talk) 12:04, 9 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

15) Many times other Wikipedians say they like my "enthusiasm" or "dedication". Do you know what they mean by saying "enthusiasm" or "dedication"?

One difficulty with a project where anyone can edit, but no one has to is apathy - people just don't care enough to write articles about topics they're not interested, they don't care enough to work on the backlogs and they just don't care in general. One of your strong points is despite being knocked back, you still do care, points that have been mentioned as "enthusiasm" and "dedication". Worm^TT · (talk) 10:16, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Goals

Feel free to add any here, but this what I'd hope we get through whilst mentoring.

Run through my Adoption school. Yes, I know it's teaching you what you already know, but it does show the good faith that you're attempting to improve at a fundamental level. Also, you get a barnstar (well, quite a few actually) out of it and you may learn something.
Get at least one GA to your name. I think if we collaborate, we can get there. Maybe more than one. I'm good at making food articles GA, so we could work on one of them, or if you think there's something else let me know.
Get you into DYK. DYK is disgustingly easy in my opinion. Once you have found an article that can be created (and there's lots out there), writing 1500 characters (not words, CHARACTERS) on a subject is not hard. ESPECIALLY since you can cover a point twice - once in the lead once in the text. Making sure it's all sourced and not plagerised just involves you thinking a little bit, and I think you can do that :D After a while, we can get you into reviewing DYKs, offering helpful suggestions etc. I think you could excel at DYK!
~~Discuss your outlook and what went wrong. Going to be a difficult one, but I think we can work this out.~~
~~Discuss what was brought up at your most recent editor review.~~
~~Look into redesigning your userspace, so you can get across the point you want to whilst not upsetting people!~~
Learn alot, get alot of experience, and get alot of information about the policies, guidelines, essays and other parts of Wikipedia so that I don't get negative comments but more positive after the ban expires, and that the community gives me more darn respect.
Work towards a successful RFA.

Agreed, we've done those. Worm^TT · (talk) 12:34, 25 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Which next?

Which of the goals would you like to tackle next? I'd suggest we work on getting an article up or discuss what went wrong. However, discussing what went wrong might be a little bit heavy going - so let me know what you'd prefer :) Worm^TT · (talk) 12:25, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For now, I'll just discuss what went wrong, and about my latest editor review. The article work will be done next. My redesigning my userpage will be done last. :) -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 07:51, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For the userspace redesigning, put everything on what you want me to design in the new section below. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 07:54, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Porchcrop to Worm That Turned

See my learning log about the policies and guidelines. The log records what I have learnt about the policies and guidelines (and as you teach me, the log will record even more).
- There's good points to this, but I think you'll find it might be an overall net negative. The problem is that when people look at it, it's a big tally of the mistakes you've made. If you included *every* action you took - people could weigh up the number of mistakes against the correct ones. (Say for CSDs note down every CSD, what category you put it in and what was the outcome) Worm^TT 08:49, 12 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You are the greatest mentor I have ever had. I've noticed it too early.
- Don't get too excited! It's going to be a long old slog, and you're going to need to stop worrying about adminship for a while.
Sometimes I may disagree with you, if I do, I will ask you questions how I am wrong. And give me explanations how I am wrong so that I can understand how and why I am wrong.
- We're both human, I'd be worried if we didn't disagree sometimes. And, just because we disagree doesn't mean either of us is right or wrong, I've changed my opinion a few times on this encyclopedia in the face of rational reasoned arguments. But as long as you are trying to understand my point of view, I'll be happy.
Anytime I have achieved a goal listed in the goals section, please mark it as achieved.
- Will do. Some of them are difficult to mark as "achieved" though, they're not tangible.
I've just created the UAA and CSD logs.
Awesome to see your first block :) -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 07:55, 1 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I can't say it was awesome. It was not a nice block to make as he hadn't done anything overtly wrong, just a long pattern of mild disruption, leading to a net negative effect. It took me 2 hours to write the block notice. Let's hope my next one isn't so difficult! Worm^TT · (talk) 08:24, 1 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm hoping so too. =) -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 10:14, 1 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My ban has now expired :)
Just a reminder to update how much I meet the adminship criteria. A suggestion is to update every month.
- I think you made a few mistakes when updating the progress. First thing, regarding my RFA votes, I find it funny my votes went 3 down ([2]), where Snottywong's counter is more on the signature. So you may want to see this instead. Second thing is that you missed updating my CSD tags.
  - You're right. I did miss the RfAs. sorted that. I'll have to look into the CSD stuff in a bit :)
X!'s RFA counter seems to be working again ([3])

Feedback for Porchcrop

Worm, please give feedback here on my editing and taking your mentoring.

I think this is a great idea, and will leave any thoughts I have here as bullet points. Feel free to respond to them if you like, I'm happy to discuss anything. I will only give feedback on what you've done since you've been working with me though, as I see that as the turning point and what you've done previously doesn't matter too much to me :)

Would you like examples?

From our interactions, the biggest issue I've found is with the way you answer questions. You often do not answer every question asked or answer a different question to what is asked. This will be a massive problem if you do ever intend to make it through RfA, and it can hamper you throughout wikipedia. (In your editor review, where people are saying that "you aren't learning" or "you don't appear to get it", I think they are related to this point. I do think you "get it", but the way you answer questions imply you're missing out points).
I'm very impressed that you took the "Attention" notice down from your userpage. I hope you can see why this appeared to not show good faith in some people's eyes, but I commend you for taking it down either way.
An idea - if you're going to be making UAA reports, firstly make sure they're uncontroversial (the ones today looked fine) and make a list of them all at User:Porchcrop/UAA reports, whether they are accepted or not. You should be aiming for 100% - I'll keep an eye on it. I'd like to see 30-40 in a row without a mistake :)
- That's a good idea. But an editor could just look into my contributions, and see the reports. Same thing for deletion tags. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 07:48, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - yes they can, but this would show you are monitoring yourself, looking to improve and show very quickly to an editor who has raised concerns about your knowledge level that you have experience in the area. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:05, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Other Users comments

Porchcrop, I'm aware that a handful of editors are watching this page, so I've left an area for them to make comments down here. I'm certain that they have your best interests at heart, so please do pay attention to anything they say.

I'm alright with it. :) -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 09:46, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Something to keep in mind for DYK

With DYK, the new article has to be nominated within about five days of it being created.

This can be tricky if, for example, you start an article on a Saturday, but then you're busy with school for a week and you don't get around to nominating it until the next Saturday. Seven days so probably too late!

The easy way round this is to start the article as a sub-page in your userspace, and then only move it to the mainspace as a proper article once you're happy that it meets all the DYK requirements and you're happy with how it looks and you've thought of a good "hook". Because it only counts as being "created" when it's first moved into mainspace as an article. ----Demiurge1000 (talk) 10:42, 16 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the info Demiurge. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 01:52, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's very good advice. I've got about 2-3 articles currently in my userspace that I keep thinking about working on, and it's how I created a great many of my more significant articles. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:12, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding adminship

Worm, I just decided to put a section regarding my adminship. While yes, you are not coaching me to becoming an admin, but please put your opinions here if you feel that I am ready to become an admin. Please put feedback here and keep updating the percentage.

I've created a board regarding my adminship. It can be found at User:Porchcrop/Adminship board. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 07:32, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Percentage I am close to being an admin: 42% (keep updating the percentage)

I think this is a bad idea but if it will help demonstrate to you how far from adminship you currently are, I'll bite.

percent through adoption school (minimum knowledge level) = 100%
increase pie chart to 40% content contributions (from 24%) = 3 % (well done on getting somewhere on this)
evidence of accepting community decision regarding your work = 50% (You've made excellent progress here)
evidence of positive interactions with users = 40% (You handled recent issues very well)
percent through redesign of userpage, so less confrontational = 100%
number of DYK or GA (I expect a minimum of 15) = 1
months since end of topic ban (I expect a minimum of 6) = 0 (50%)
number of correct CSD in a row (I expect a minimum of 30) = 4 (based on this)
number of correct UAA in a row (I expect a minimum of 30) = 10 (based on this)
useful** !votes at RfA (I expect a minimum of 25) = 14 ([4])

So that is 10 factors I would expect you to meet before running for adminship. You are currently about 4% there. I think you should forget about adminship for a year, let someone else decide when you are ready. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:11, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

*I have given you 10 because you have not contributed to the areas that you were told not to. However, you appear to still be very interested in adminship, despite our discussions - focussing on it when there is so much for you to do before you even consider it. You have also left messages on your page (time delayed so as not to appear yet) blaming others for their part in your topic ban, which implies you havent learnt from it. **by useful, I mean going through the candidates contributions and finding evidence for why you feel the candidate either should or should not be an admin. Diffs would be helpful

Reasons why Worm thinks why Porchcorpter cannot become an admin

Worm, please put your opinions here why you think I cannot become an admin.

Do not have the trust of the community.
Partially due to your topic ban, partially down to mistakes you've made, you'll need to work for a significant period without (excessive) mistakes before you get that back. You've stopped really editing, and that doesn't help you gain trust, it looks like you're sulking
No need for the tools
It looks to me that you want the tools, and you're working in areas that are most likely to get you them. Looks arse about face to me. But I could be proved wrong.
Communication skills need more work.
The way your write isn't always the clearest. I've got used to you, I can understand what you're saying, but you could work on your clarity. Ensuring you answer every point in words that anyone could understand.
~~Need to build articles~~ (but could do more)
Learn to appreciate WP:OWN and the edit warring and problems with deletion.
You rush
When you do work, you do it too fast, encouraging mistakes. It'd be much better if you take your time, double checking your work. I'd much rather you did 3 things well than 6 things ok or 10 things poorly.

While I did have reasons why I wanted to become an admin, now I have more reasons why I think that adminship is useful and helpful for me. Does this mean I want or need adminship? And while I am a bit busy at the moment, I sometimes do keep coming back, doing my wiki work. I have not slowed down with my work because of the ban, but I am a bit busy.

Ah, that's a key difference, well done for spotting it. Wanting to "be an admin" is very very different to thinking that adminship is useful and helpful. What brought about that change? Also, I accept your reason of "real life", it's very reasonable.

Reasons why other people think why Porchcorpter cannot become an admin

Worm, please put your opinions here why do you think that others would think why I cannot become an admin.

I'll do this section first, because I know full well what people will say, and I'll actually expand on what they're saying to give my view on what they mean. I expect that there are a few other people around who may be interested in dropping a note here too. If they find it in the long page!

Immature
I don't exactly agree with this, but you'll have to work hard to show your maturity. For example, you're currently topic banned from a very small area of Wikipedia, yet you've made almost no edits during the period of the topic ban, you've put up a note saying "I can't help you, I'm topic banned". Basically, you have to SHOW that you can take the criticism of the topic ban, you try to become a better person because of it.

Unfortunately, once a person is labelled immature on wikipedia, it sticks. It sticks like superglue. You have to work very hard to remove it.
Wants to be an admin too much
Can you argue with this? I'm not sure I can. You've admitted it's your goal, you've had multiple RfAs, you've now even set up your own wiki to be an admin. Multiple editors have told you to leave adminship alone, but you keep coming back to it. I've heard it said that "Anyone who desperately wants power is unsuitable for it" - and I wonder if you have an argument against it.
Tries to edit the past
You've improved so greatly on not trying to edit the past, that I would argue with anyone who said this. Worm^TT · (talk) 09:12, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

While I did have reasons why I wanted to become an admin, now I have more reasons why I think that adminship is useful and helpful for me. Does this mean I want or need adminship? And while I am a bit busy at the moment, I sometimes do keep coming back, doing my wiki work. I have not slowed down with my work because of the ban, but I am a bit busy.

Users thoughts on adminship

Hey Porchcrop. I thought I'd just collate a few users thoughts on why they don't want to be admins. Have a read, have a think, see if it's still something you want.

Whether I am effective I leave for others to work out, but I have been a regular editor for a couple of years and have absolutely no interest in adminship, which would actually get in the way of editing as I would expect to spend all my time on processes and not actual editing. A valuable job, but its only to help the actual editing - which is the really important job here. If you want to use me as another example please feel free. All the best.--SabreBD (talk) 16:47, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I hold admins to a much higher standard in regards to herd-mentality and civility than I do for everyday editors, and I don't think I can hold myself to the same standard. There are a number of admins that I think fail to meet my standards, even if they are good editors, and vice versa. -danjel (talk to me) 23:59, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There's absolutely no pressure on good long-term editors to become admins. In fact some of our highest scoring and most civil users do not want to be admins. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:42, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Can I throw in a comment here, as an "experienced" editor who has never had any intention of seeking to become an admin. Why should I? I'm here to have fun, essentially, by doing what I want to do, building articles, and engaging in (wherever possible) friendly discussion on subjects that I'm interested in, often with the aim of building a consensus - but having the freedom to become irascible occasionally. If I were to become an admin, through whatever route, much of the appeal of being here would immediately evaporate - I'd be under pressure to do what people ask me to do rather than what I want to do, and it would inevitably take time away from the things I enjoy doing. Or, that's the way it seems to me. I suspect I may fall into the category of editors who people would like to encourage to become admins - but, unless I'm missing something, it seems like it is a role I should continue to steer well clear of. Am I right? Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:33, 30 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I hold all these editors in the highest regard, certainly some things you should think about. Worm^TT · (talk) 10:56, 12 April 2011 (UTC)'[reply]

Kudpung is an administrator here. But I will ignore adminship until I have 100% experience to become an admin. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 08:51, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Disappointed

Hi Porchcrop.

I'm afraid I'm having a little difficulty here. I've asked you a few times to stop focusing on becoming an administrator, I've asked you to not mention it for a few months, to work on other stuff. I'm not sure how to explain this further - you will not become an administrator if you do not leave it alone for a while.

I am not talking about the MfD - I'm talking about [a request for admin coaching]. I accepted the "percentage" thing above to try and show you how FAR you were from being an administrator, not that you were making good progress. So. There are 3 things I'm going to tell you about the request.

No one will take it. Very few people think you are at a point where you can even think about being an administrator, and no one would waste their time with that request.
It shows to your critics, who believe you are fixated on adminship, that they are right.
By going against my request to leave adminship alone, you have undone much of the good work we have done here and disappointed me.

There is only so much I can do, Porchcrop. If you can become a good editor, you may make admin some time after that. If you try for admin first... I can see you ending up in a worse situation. Worm^TT · (talk) 21:55, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I know that. But the pending admin coaching request will anyways take a long time to be answered. I am every time reviewing the policies and guidelines and learning about Wikipedia. So while the admin coaching request is pending, I am focusing on mentorship with you, and learning even more how to become a great editor.

P.S. Have you checked the "Comments from me" section in this page and the "Questions" section in my final test page? -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 00:21, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(I've replied to the comments, missed them, sorry!)

As to the coaching request, you are entirely missing my point regarding your attitude to adminship. I understand that you want to be an administrator, and you are editing with that goal in mind. However, there is a large portion of the community who believe very strongly that adminship is not a target. If you keep showing the community how much you want to be an administrator, THEY WILL NOT MAKE YOU ONE.

What's more, admin coaching is not a heavily used area, nor does it guarantee that you will become an administrator - if you get a coach. If you really want to be an administrator, stop trying to be one. When I feel you are ready, I will nominate you, and cindamuse has said she will co-nominate if she feels you are ready too. I give you my word. Note, this will not necessarily be when you hit 100% on the percentage above, but that will be a minimum requirement.

I'm going to now put some RfAs below for you to have a look at. They are people who have not expressly said they want to become admins, but have given the impression they do, and that was one of the large reasons people opposed.

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/SunCountryGuy01 - Eagles comment
Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Rehman 3 - Enfcr's comment
Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Ktr101 4 - Stifle's comment (and the one below)
Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Vivio Testarossa 2 - opposes 8, 17, 22, 24
Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Ironholds 3 - opposes 31 & 44
Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/The Transhumanist 5 - opposes 3, 15, 20 and many more

And that's just with a little digging.

Actually I dropped adminship as my goal. Alot of people have told me that I will have to do harder work as one. And since I feel I am confident with the policies and guidelines, I no longer wish to become an admin. What do you think about that? -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 09:05, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds very sensible to me. Worm^TT · (talk) 07:54, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Look into redesigning your userspace

Resolved

– All done. -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 08:33, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What all do you want me to redesign my userspace?

Well, there's a few bits. First things first

Hmm. I don't agree with all the requests you made here. I've put questions and responses for each request for you to give clarifications and substantial reasons for the requests.

That's fine. I didn't expect you to just bend to my will ;) These are just suggestions, and I'm happy to explain any of them.

Your user page

Wikibreak based on ban - "Porchcrop is currently banned from contributing to a few areas until 12 September 2011 and will rarely do maintenance work (but more article work). But when the ban expires, he will return to do maintenance and keep Wikipedia running well." - looks a bit like whinging :P I doubt you'll forget it, any reason you want to keep it up on the site?
It's a message to let other users know that because of the ban, I will not be very active on maintenance.
Actually, you're right. You could change the bit in the brackets to "(as he will be focusing on article work)", which makes it clear that you're not whinging, just refocusing
Done
Ban and adminship section - remove parts regarding adminship? reword ban section so it mentions you have a mentor and an otter. Doesn't need to get into detail.
Do you have a reason why I should remove parts regarding adminship? And how to reword the ban section?
Just because you were saying you've dropped adminship as a goal - you are still saying that you hope your mentors will help you gain adminship. (Similarly, worth dropping the non existent "Admin coach" and "Admin assessor" roles)

As for rewording the ban section, removing "So while the ban is running, I will not be able to help you. Sorry." would be good.
Done Removed adminship mentorship. But RFA references, I will keep it for my future runs at RFA
"There has been several inappropriate scoldings, negative criticisms and controversial discussions about me all my time on Wikipedia before the ban." - not helpful, as I explained in the what went wrong section below.
I could remove this at some point if there is a reason to remove it.
Vague handwavey comments about "inappropriate" scoldings, and your past history imply that the problem was with other people. The "it's not me, it's you" attitude doesn't look very good, and will likely be seen as an immature inability to accept criticism.
drop the new admin school.
Why do you want me to drop the new admin school?
Because you're not a new admin, and you've dropped your goal of being a new admin. It's misleading, as it appears that you are an admin. It's not appropriate for you.
Done ~~Well I already have a userbox saying that I am not an admin. But as you said, I've done it. :) -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 01:50, 1 May 2011 (UTC)~~[reply]

The new admin school is not really misleading. It is one of the templates with links.
It's a template with links... for new admins. Are you a new admin?
I'm not a new admin. But the link template box, same thing to do with the other template link boxes my userpage I currently have -- Policies and guidelines, Template messages, Civility and Wikipedia fauna. But it's hardly misleading to make other users think I am a new admin. And I would also like that as a template links box in my tools of my userpage.
It's your userpage, and your choice :) But you know my opinion. It's a userbox that is aimed at new admins, it specifically calls itself a new admin userbox. All the links in there are teaching Admins how to use the tools - since you are not an admin, I don't see the benefit. If you want to read the essays, it's only an extra click or two. Worm^TT · (talk) 09:22, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Have come up with a redesign here. It's based on User:Jimbo Wales, but I'm using things differently, and the colours have changed. I would suggest using it in conjunction with deleting the Instructions for contacting page - as I point out below. Worm^TT · (talk) 10:40, 3 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done

Instructions for contacting page

I think this is totally unnecessary - you want to be as open as possible to feedback, or help requests or any friendly comments. So I think it'd be a good idea to db-u1 User:Porchcrop/Instructions for contacting. We'll replace it with a pretty talk page header which contain all the information you want, something like Kudpung's... (colours, text, picture can all be changed)

Welcome to my talk page!

Personal messages go here. Please use article or project talk pages for other discussions.
I make plenty of errors - if you are here to complain about a tag or a warning, please assume good faith.
If I have erred, don't hesitate to tell me, but being rude will get you nowhere.
If you have erred, chances are I'll help you get round it and over it, but I don't suffer fools gladly ;)
Please click here to leave a new message.

On line now? It is 8:15 PM where this user lives near Udon Thani, Thailand

on top of that, we'll put something similar here. Short and sweet, people are more likely to read it and it appears more welcoming.

I will keep the page because I would like a contacting info page about using my talk page, email or IRC. But when I get good understanding of the basic policies you need to know about to become a respected editor or when I get respect from the community, I will make the page, my talk page header and my talk page edit notice more friendly.

You can have the information on how to contact you via different message systems on your userpage. At the moment, your instructions are effectively an EXTRA hurdle for people to get through so they can leave you a message. Another user has done something similar to a greater extent here - Now, you're not that bad, but it's a slippery slope, and people will see both as an issue. Perhaps, the edit notice is not the best route, but the instructions make things more difficult to contact you, not easier.

Then where will I keep the whole contacting notes and info in? This page is already pretty long, and if I put all of them in my userpage, it will flood my userpage.

I've sorted that User:Porchcrop/suggestion, the contacting methods are there, very visible on your userpage. I honestly thing removing things like the consequences section and which wikifauna you want on your page is a good idea. Remember, the instructions for contacting page was a bone of contention at your editor review...

Done

Now what do I do with my email notice? And this talk page header, which is better, do I put on top of my talk page or in my edit notice?

Well, I've changed your edit notice - it was one of the changes. I forgot the email notice. I'd suggest something similar to your edit notice, and remind people to put a subject in. Worm^TT · (talk) 09:51, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have two questions to ask you now. First off, what do you think about my new talk page edit notice? Second thing, do you think the administrator Nakon's talk page header would be a good idea? It looks like this:

I will remove any "wikilove" or other useless "joke" templates.
Please do not add such nonsense to this page.

As to your questions (sorry for the delay - I've been away on hols!) - The talk page notice is good. Do you really want a header like Nakon's? I know you are a fan of the WP:WIKIFAUNA, and I'm sure you'd like barnstars and cookies if people feel you deserve them. Nakon doesn't believe in such things, which is fine - we're all different, but are you sure that's the way you feel? Worm^TT · (talk) 09:55, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm talking about the context of Nakon's talk page notice. Is it okay to use the context of Nakon's edit notice? Since I have had trouble with working with the community all my time (and I hope that I don't after the ban expires), I became a WikiSloth and started following WP:DGAF. -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 10:03, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, are you having a lot of problems with some sort of template being put on? There's no point in pre-empting issues. IE Work out the problem, then work out the solution, don't put the solution in when there's no problem Worm^TT · (talk) 15:17, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Banned and mentored

You may want to look at this, as it currently looks like you are sulking about the ban "(banned from helping out)" - Might be worth removing and replacing.

What changes do you want me to make to this?

Change the text to something like - "After a topic ban in some maintenance areas, this user is being mentored by Worm That Turned"

Done -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 02:01, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Getting Adminship

Well, there's a few things here that just are not right. We can go through it and make it into a decent guide to requesting adminship, or you can delete it per db-u1. At the moment, it looks like you are trying to give advice when you're not an admin - a case of blind leading the blind.

Well I will keep improving and fixing it till it becomes a good and helpful essay.

Ok. I still think db-u1 would be a better option, as it would be "admitting" that you don't know how to gain adminship (it could be re-written in the future) and I don't see that it adds any value. If you still want to keep it and you'd like any advice with it, let me know and I'll mosey on over to that page.

Would it be okay if I restore the categories. First of, there was not much info in the MFD that the categories be removed, nor did you say that the categories needed to be removed. Secondly, I don't see how new users would easily stumble on this essay with the categories.

Not just yet. I think we should go through it and chat about some of the points first. I see you've already had some suggestions by other editors, but I don't think it's quite ready yet. I can review it sooner rather than later though if you like. Worm^TT · (talk) 09:15, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. Now please review it. I've just done a bit of cleanup (by removing statements I thought were incorrect). If you have any more suggestions, feel free to mention on the talk page. -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 10:10, 1 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done Is it okay now to re-publish it? -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 08:16, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You've just put in "you need to be at least 8-16 years old" - at least implies a single figure, can you chose one, rather than have at least a range? Otherwise, I think it's in acceptable state. I'm curious to know where you want to publish it though - it should be placed with other user essays on adminship, but not on top pages without consensus that yours is appropriate to be there. Worm^TT · (talk) 09:03, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How about the new statement? You have the right to edit or improve the essay, so feel free to improve it if you want. I've restored the categories, because there was not a huge agreement to have the categories removed, nor did you say they needed to be removed. And it is less likely for a newbie to stumble upon it if it was in the categories. -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 09:18, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Categories seem reasonable - will double check though. I'll have a look at the age thing, and might link to another essay. Worm^TT · (talk) 09:25, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Status template

User:Porchcrop/StatusTemplate if you're not using it, get rid of it ;)

I use this to show my status per my status page.

That's a red link. You haven't updated it since last year when you delete the status page. As I said, if you're not using it, get rid of it.

Done I have not deleted it. But I have removed all the transclusions though.

What went wrong and feedback

Right Porchcrop. This was always going to be the most difficult bit of the mentoring to get through. Hopefully once you are through it though it will be a massive step forward in every way, shape and form. This whole section may come off as "scolding" or "negative", but remember that I am trying to help. I do see you as a net positive to the encyclopedia, and if you can address the issues we discuss, you will become one of the best editors on here. I'll put a tick beside each as we've got through them, and you can refer back here later.

Worm's Opinions

Communication

In my opinion, almost all of the difficulties you've had can be traced back to how you communicate with others. I have noticed you trying to improve this, but if you can focus on how you say things at the forefront of your mind, rather than what you say - you will find Wikipedia a lot easier to deal with. Thoughts on wikihow may be helpful to you. Basically, your target is to get the person you are discussing things with to agree with you. The key points

Tackle one thing at a time, but tackle everything. (If someone makes multiple points, respond to each in turn)
Try to choose your words carefully - remember it's a person you're talking to, with thoughts and feelings.

Okay. What parts of my communications must I improve?

Um... try reading that again ;)

Haste

This is going to be the hardest thing to drum out of you. I may not be able to :) Wikipedia works quickly, but the best wikipedians are not hasty. Haste is not the same thing as speed, and you can work quickly but not hastily. Basically, try slowing down for a while, thinking through your action and all possible consequences. You've got time, there's no rush. It's a very very very difficult skill.

Yep. I have started to look carefully before performing the action. I have learnt that you must do things carefully if you want to be a respected editor.

Yeah. there's more steps to the process. You do things carefully, you get them as right as possible - damn near perfect, people come to realise you are a patient and thoughtful editor, you get respect.

AN/I thoughts

Desperate to appear adminlike

As long as you stop worrying about adminship, and focus on the areas we discuss, this shouldn't be a problem. Basically, your wish to be an admin has gone down badly - and letting things cool down would be very helpful. Just worry about what you're doing, not about being an admin some time in the future.

I have dropped my adminship goal after I have been told by plenty of other editors that it means I will do alot of hard work as an admin. And since I feel I am confident with the policies and guidelines, I no longer wish to become an admin. So for the mean time, I will work as a great editor and get respect from the community. And at some point when I feel I have sufficient respect, I might run as an admin.

Agreed. I believe you have learned your lesson here - that's why I didn't go on about it much.

Disruption at UAA

Well, this was two-fold. Firstly, you reported some names which were appropriate. I don't see this as a major issue, if you are not reporting the same sort of names over and over, without learning from your mistakes. You now have a UAA log, which I believe will help with this. Can you start including the diff of your report? It would make things much easier. Also, if you could use the user template, it'll be more helpful too. I've updated the first 7 for you - All of which were accepted, I notice, meaning you must be doing that right. As long as you follow the "think about all consequences" route, and only tag usernames you are certain are wrong, that should be a start.

The second issue was with working the board itself. You marked some as "had not edited", even though they had - with deleted comments. My advice here would to be to stay out of that all together. It's an area that really needs admin tools to work in. I know you're banned from it at the moment, but I'd suggest you don't do any non-admin work there, ever. I know I wouldn't.

Well maybe you are correct that I should avoid responding using UAA-wait. But if I use Soxred's edit counter, I will know if the reported user has deleted edits or not. In fact, seeing the responses to the UAA reports I have made from other admins, I now have an understanding about the username policy that is why I have slowed down when reporting users to UAA.

Yes, soxred's edit counter will help, you have learned that the editor may have deleted edits. If you agree that it would be helpful to stop responding using UAA-wait, I believe you are up to scratch. Your tagging appears to be good, and you are working at a good speed. Re: "I now have an understanding about username policy" - that's the sort of comment that can come back to bite you. Once you make a comment like that, if you make even one mistake (you're only human), it will look like you were either you haven't tried and were lying or you just don't have the "competence" - please note that these are not my opinions, but they have been brought up before. Better that you use "qualifiers" like "I have recently reviewed the username policy and believe I have an understanding". That way, you can open yourself up to questions and discussion, rather than closing yourself off and forcing sanctions. It's all about learning you see :D

Disruption at CSD

This was mostly at your userpage, but has come up at AN/I. The issue was regarding your removal of CSD tags. One was with a mall, which you had said was inherently notable because it was a mall. You went on to say that

Writing about your own house is an autobiography
writing about another person's house is an attack page
Malls are public places and therefore notable.

Can you explain to me if you still believe these 3 statements are true?

You were asked to stop changing CSD tags - is this something you are likely to do after the ban is lifted? There's nothing wrong with having multiple CSD tags, I'd say it would be better to add an extra one.

Well I am not banned from adding an extra CSD tag though. However, I was a bit younger that time, so as Boing! said Zebedee said that I was following "hard rules". But I now know that attack pages are only to give negative information about the subject. And an autobiography is writing about yourself, not your possessions. And I now know that some malls are notable and some are not. Oh yes, you missed one thing, I now know that even when an article does not welcome you to a mall, it can be spam, depending on its context. And I now know that inappropriately revealed addresses must be removed from the page and oversighted. You might see a huge change from me with removing CSD tags after 11 September.

It sounds like I will. What's more, WELL DONE for answering all my points - and very clearly. If you can keep up communication like that, it will be a great step forward. The hard rules concept is a bit interesting - I think this might be something to work on a bit more in future, but don't worry about that now.

Editor Review

Handling of feedback

One thing that was raised was how you handle feedback. This was mostly shown in your user space, where you had a special page for "negative" feedback. On top of that, you have a long list of instructions on who can edit your page and who can't. You went on to talk about not wanting "scoldings".

Well, wikipedia - and unfortunately the rest of the world - works in a way that people don't say what's good, focusing instead on what's bad. For example, take the news. If you watch a half-hour news program, you will have 6-7 negative stories and maybe 1 positive one. I believe as much good happens in the world as bad, so the positive stories have to work extra extra hard to get through. Nevertheless, they do come through.

So, my advice here is to change your outlook. Stop thinking of the "scoldings" as negative, but instead think of them as "an editor trying to help". They stop being scoldings then, but instead suggestions. It's all about how you see them. Take for example an issue I had just a few weeks ago. User talk:Worm That Turned/Archive 4#WP:WIKIHOUND - A user I had dealings with felt I was "hounding" him, and told me to stop it. I could have taken that as a scolding, and reacted badly. But instead, I discussed the matter, and he offered me a beer if I was ever in Sydney. It's all about how you present yourself, and how you discuss matters.

Also, open-ness is a big thing. If you are open about the mistakes you've made, you show that you've learnt from them. Hiding them on sub pages or deleting them does not imply that you are able to learn from your mistakes.

You had explained to me that I had not gotten any scoldings or negative feedback, I had only gotten responses to my edits to say that I am wrong. But I now know that users who had given me responses to my edits are not in the grey section in this graph. So if users had wanted to give responses to my edits, they need to give at least sufficient positives to it, and be in the grey section of File:Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement.svg.

Well... Yes and no. Being in the grey section is great to aim for, but few people have the skill to do it. I used it more to help you with how you edit rather than putting expectations on others. As for the "sufficient positives", no, the world doesn't work like that. What I was trying to say is that you should "look on the bright side" of any comments. I'm pretty good at this, and will give you an example.

- Someone says: You have been tagging new pages too quickly, please stop and leave them at least 24h.
- You should see: "Hi Porchcrop. I've been working quite hard recently on new pages, and I see that you have a habit of tagging them very quickly. Would you mind leaving them for up to 24 hours before you do? I do have a very good reason to ask this, but I've forgotten to say what it is. Hopefully it'll be self evident, but if not, please do ask. Thanks"

Now, I've put all that in using a little AGF, and what I can see the point was. If it's not self evident why they think what you've done is wrong, they haven't been explicit and asking for more information makes sense. It's all about "looking on the bright side" of the comment.

Well you've made your point. I will from now on start looking in the positive side and ignore the negative side. And ok, probably not very many people have the skill to be in the grey section in Graham's hierachy of disagreement. And I would not even imagine why people don't include positives. But WHATEVER ANYTHING is, from now on I will look in the bright side.

Tidying your userspace

One of the things mentioned was the long list of instructions on how to contact you, along with warnings about vandalism or unhelpful comments. I'd suggest we go through and prune all of it, replacing it with an edit notice :) we can deal with that in the userpage section.

Lack of Content Creation

I'm not going to go into this, as it's something that we're covering. If you get a few DYKs and at least one GA you'll be dead set

Trying to delete the past

Porchcrop, this is unacceptable. You cannot delete evidence of things going wrong. It is regarded as immature by wikipedia editors and it doesn't work because there is always some trace. If something goes wrong, accept it, learn from it, and don't do it again the same way.

I bring this up because it's not the first time you've done it.

Worm, I am not deleting the past. I am learning alot, and started to listen to constructive feedback. All I was doing was archiving, as you can see in the archive.

Perhaps I was over-zealous with my wording. I was aware that you were archiving (per your edit summary), but everything else sticks round for 20 days, and so should yours. What I meant was "don't give the impression of trying to delete the past", in this case leave it, if someone comes to you and talks about it, then you can talk back, but it's closed so no one should be offering more opinions.

Porchcrop's opinions and experiences

So, I was younger, so I lacked competence, and lacked clues. But I am now growing up, maturing and reviewing the policies and guidelines.

About your note of Danjel thinking you were WikiHounding him. I had one pretty similar problem though, and I just wanted to let you know this. I made a huge mistake at one point in February 2009. At that time, I had lost my temper and I made comments like this and this. :( But I am very regretful for making those comments. I had made those because I had a temper problem, but I am utterly sorry that I made those comments. -Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 08:02, 30 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's good that you keep this in mind to ensure it doesn't happen again, but I don't think anyone is holding it against you :) Worm^TT · (talk) 09:44, 3 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well that's about it for now

So I've almost finished all the goals with you, except for the article goal. I am semi-retiring now. Since I have to take a six month ban simply because the community made lots of support votes in my ban proposal. And I will return when the ban expires. I have some real life work that I need to finish. But I will occasionally edit and do article work and I'm sure we will get the goal complete.

You have been such a great mentor. And I just wanted to say I have learnt sufficient from you. For the time now, I am reviewing the policies, guidelines and essays. And I am also going to study my school work. I was younger at that time so I lacked the policies and guidelines, but I am now maturing, and I am now familiar with the admin policies and guidelines, so that when the ban expires, there will be no further concerns from me.

Seeya,

-Porchcrop ^{(talk|contributions)} 09:45, 30 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good luck porchcrop. I'll be here when you get back. Worm^TT · (talk) 10:03, 30 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Adminship

Hey Worm. It looks like you have RFA has a unanimous amount of support, so you will obviously pass. When you become an admin, you can start training me in the admin areas. The two admin areas that I am banned from will happen when the ban expires.

I do have reasons why I think adminship would be useful and helpful for me. Although I am not intending to run anytime within this year, especially because of my topic bans, nor am I too eager for adminship. However, I am back to wanting to become an admin, with more reasons and by following WP:DGAF.

In fact in my opinion, I don't think the administrator right is enough for you. Even the checkuser right will be right for you. -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 07:30, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hey PC. Thank you very much for your comments. However, I stay by my opinion, you will not become an admin until you become a good editor. You'll still need all the same improvements as you did before, especially article work. Even if I do become an admin, I'm not going to magically know any more about admin areas, nor am I likely to do much work in them, so I doubt I'll be good at training you in them. I still believe you can become an admin one day, but I think the best way for you to become one is through the methods set out on this page. Worm^TT · (talk) 07:44, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is article work necessary for adminship? -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 08:04, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's an awfully difficult question. I suppose the answer is technically no, but I think that it shows that you are focused on building an encyclopedia, which is what we're here for. If you don't build articles, how could you argue that you could empathise with an editor who is getting stressed over being reverted on an article he is building, or one who is having his article deleted. Unless you've built up the pride in your work that comes with article building, it's very difficult to show that you have the qualities needed for an admin. I would find it difficult to support an RfA where the candidate hasn't written anything. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:21, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm okay. Would Maximum Boy make a good article. Anyways, I've placed new sections above why there are reasons why I cannot become an admin. -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 08:34, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I just want to add that I have a wiki of my own that I am an admin of. And I am practising to use the tools there, so that when I become an admin of Wikipedia, there will probably be no problems whenever I use the tools. -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 08:39, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Maximum boy is an interesting choice. It may well make a good article, but will need some further research first (only has 1 source at the moment) and quite a lot of work to bring it to GA. At the moment, it's very much plot only, you'd need something to talk about the reception, the creation, the influences and the sales. And each will need to be sourced and around the same size as the current sections. 5x expansion is unlikely for DYK, so it'd be straight to GA if you can do it. I'm not sure how much coverage there is out there though...Worm^TT · (talk) 09:24, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Great. You're an administrator now. What next is that you need to be a checkuser. :) -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 10:01, 7 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ha, only if I were collecting hats. I've no interest in being a checkuser, I don't have enough knowledge of IPs. I dont' see that I can add value there, so it seems pointless. Similarly with any other roles, I've got all the hats I need :) Worm^TT · (talk) 10:05, 7 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

By the way. Now that you're an admin, I think there is more work for you to do (Sheesh! Admins have to do hard work! :D), such as (I might keep updating this often):

Now you can see my deleted contributions (I cannot look into my deleted contributions until I get the admin privellages, which will be probably at the end of the year), so you can judge me now by my deleted contributions.
I will create articles in my userspace, then move them to the move them to the article space. When I move them to the article space, please delete the redirect page in my userspace per U1.

We'll see about you getting adminship, there is a possibility that you won't get it though due to your past. Let's cross that bridge when we come to it, proving first of all that you are trying to improve the encyclopedia. So, go forth, build new articles. I'm happy to delete the redirects for you. I don't judge users by their deleted contributions, I'm the same person I was yesterday morning and I doubt I'll be using the tools much at all. Worm^TT · (talk) 10:38, 7 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"We'll see about you getting adminship, there is a possibility that you won't get it though due to your past". Do you mean "You will probably never become an admin because your history shows some problems."? The RFA constituents will only be dependent on your recent history. There are very few people that will oppose you for your whole history. So if I improve as an editor, very few people will oppose me. And because I got renamed, I have sort of made a new start. Oh and by the way, I am reducing my eagerness to be an admin a little bit more because of the new proposal that admins that are inactive for a year will be desysopped. -Porch corpter (talk/contribs) 11:03, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, there's a few things there. I mean just what I say, there is a possibility that you won't get through due to your past. There are editors who have long memories and you would have to show in unrefutable terms that you have improved as an editor. Don't get me wrong, you have shown exemplary improvement, but have a look at say this RfA, which failed in part because of "maturity issues". Fetchcomms has a very interesting point, that professional people come to wikipedia and the idea that their article could be deleted by an editor who appears immature does not give the encyclopedia a good name. It's difficult. But like I say, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. If you can prove yourself as an editor (building articles and so on) we will look into adminship.

As for the inactivity thing, well that's just a temporary de-sysop for inactive members, if they return, they are re-sysoped with no questions asked. It's no big deal :)Worm^TT · (talk) 11:13, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]