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The following discussion is an archived debate. Please do not modify it. To request review of this BRFA, please start a new section at WT:BRFA. The result of the discussion was Withdrawn by operator.

EaglesBot

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Operator: Eagles247 (talk · contribs)

Time filed: 21:50, Sunday February 12, 2012 (UTC)

Automatic-unsupervised, Automatic-supervised, or Manual: Automatic unsupervised

Programming language(s): AWB

Source code available: AWB

Function overview: Conversion of {{Infobox NFL retired}} templates to {{Infobox NFL player}}

Links to relevant discussions (where appropriate): Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 8#Switchover all Infobox NFLretired to Infobox NFLactive

Edit period(s): One time run

Estimated number of pages affected: ~3800 (guess of 300 {{Infobox NFL player}} pages that need the stat parameters fixed, ~3500 {{Infobox NFL retired}} per this)

Exclusion compliant (Y/N): Y

Already has a bot flag (Y/N): N

Function details: Changing parameters (|stat#value= to |statvalue#= where # is 1 through 6), in articles that employ {{Infobox NFL player}} due to improper infobox conversions from {{Infobox NFL retired}}; rename all {{Infobox NFL retired}} templates as {{Infobox NFL player}} templates; change the |birth_date= and |death_date= parameters in {{Infobox NFL retired}} pages to remove the line breaks and add |birth_place= and |death_place= parameters for the birthplaces/deathplaces.

Discussion

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The function details aren't specific enough; how exactly does it convert to the new infobox? The linked discussion doesn't give any immediate details. Does it add fields, does it remove fields, are there incompatible fields, are any field values converted, does it check for redirects or multiple infoboxes, etc. I see a semi-explicit "Instead, please use {{Infobox NFL player}} setting the |final_team= & |final_year= fields appropriately; and leaving the |current_team= field blank. |birth_date= needs to be checked if it contains the birth place and fixed accordingly." on the deprecated one's description, but it's a bit too vague.

Also why do you want this approved under your main account? You can either manually run it without approval or you should make a bot account for an unattended run (even if one-time). —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 22:01, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops, listed it wrong. I've changed it to run under EaglesBot. The bot will change fields incompatible with the "new" infobox. Eagles 24/7 (C) 22:07, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've updated my request, as the intent of the previous request has been handled by another bot. Eagles 24/7 (C) 01:50, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There doesn't seem to be any consensus for that conversion. Are you proposing to convert any infoboxes, or transform the mapping of parameter names? Josh Parris 04:09, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there is consensus. Take a look at {{Infobox NFL retired}} and you'll see that the infobox is being "retired." The articles that currently employ the {{Infobox NFL retired}} templates will eventually become {{Infobox NFL player}}. The parameters at {{Infobox NFL player}} use the format "statlabel1". Eagles 24/7 (C) 04:15, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's not how I read the discussion. However, with the template's documentation marked as deprecated for two years, I yield that there is a consensus for retiring the infobox. Josh Parris 05:25, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I also understand that because both the |final_team= and |final_year= fields need to be populated, that's why you're requesting doing this with a bot rather than a template redirect (and appropriate new backwards-compatible parameters). How will you be populating these fields? Josh Parris 05:25, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It is impossible to populate the finalyear/team parameters, as that would require manual editing. We could take the final season from the "teams" parameter, but this will not always be accurate due to a player spending that season on injured reserve or otherwise. Those parameters are not mandatory, so it is not a big deal if they are left unpopulated. Eagles 24/7 (C) 05:38, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, I'm currently disinclined to approve this. What you want to do can be achieved by a template redirect (and appropriate new backwards-compatible parameters). Then get the AWB developers to make the rename of {{Infobox NFL retired}} as part of its general fixes, and the problem ought to be resolved in a year or two. Josh Parris 06:20, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
All I want to do is run AWB through a bot account so I don't clog up watchlists. This is not a controversial task, so I don't understand why this is so difficult to approve. Eagles 24/7 (C) 12:24, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Because you are not being precise in the request function details. Bots are only approved for explicitly listed details, and I still don't understand the exact change this would make. As an example, you shouldn't say "parameters such as", you should list every parameter that will be renamed. Tasks, such as, "Replace X with Y" without detail are rarely approved. I mean, I went your way in my first comment: "Does it add fields, does it remove fields, are there incompatible fields, are any field values converted, does it check for redirects or multiple infoboxes, etc." —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 12:41, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You don't need to make in excess of 3000 edits to solve this problem, you need to make two. One to make {{Infobox NFL player}} compatible with the six parameters on {{Infobox NFL retired}} and one to either redirect {{Infobox NFL retired}} to {{Infobox NFL player}} or to wrap it. Merely changing the name of a template on 3000+ pages is not a reasonable use of resources. Josh Parris 12:57, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You do not understand my request, so please don't tell me what to do. Eagles 24/7 (C) 14:51, 13 February 2012 (UTC) This was incivil, and I apologize. Eagles 24/7 (C) 18:20, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Explain it to me. Josh Parris 15:21, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Here's exactly what I'm trying to do: The {{Infobox NFL retired}} template is being "retired" and the articles that currently use it will be replaced by {{Infobox NFL player}} for consistency purposes. One of the main reasons for the switch to only one infobox is that the parameters were not compatible with each other. Several infoboxes were incorrectly converted, as only the title of the infobox was changed and the parameters were not. I am currently requesting approval to have my bot use AWB to fix the names of the above parameters (|statlabel1=, etc.) in articles that use {{Infobox NFL player}} that are incompatible with the infobox. Eagles 24/7 (C) 18:20, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Broadly construed, that's my understanding. I didn't realise that some human editors had been incorrectly converting {{Infobox NFL retired}} to {{Infobox NFL player}} by a simple renaming, and that your intention was to edit {{Infobox NFL player}}. My position still stands within the context of this explanation. However, see below. Josh Parris 00:07, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate the unprompted retraction. Josh Parris 00:07, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The controversy of this task is not its difficulty; the necessity of it is. That bot edits are ignored is why BRFAs are so difficult; a license to fly "under the radar" at supersonic speeds is not handed out lightly. Josh Parris 13:05, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yobot already did the parameters renaming described above for {{Infobox NFL retired}}. There is still some stuff to do to complete the merge of the two infoboxes. --- Magioladitis (talk) 15:53, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

For instance I would like to see a bot where it will replace: |birth_date={{Birth date and age|11|02|1991}}<br>New York with |birth_date={{Birth date and age|11|02|1991}}|birth_place=New York. -- Magioladitis (talk) 15:56, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am referring to parameters in {{Infobox NFL player}} which were not properly converted, as brought up on my talk page by another user. I already have this programmed into AWB and now I'm just waiting for approval. Eagles 24/7 (C) 18:20, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Clarified all the details (hopefully). This comes down into 2 one-time tasks:

Renaming the |stat#value= to |statvalue#= and |stat#label= to |statlabel#= for {{Infobox NFL player}} leftover by Yobot. I generally agree with Josh Parris that it can be solved with 2 edits, but as I see it, 300 is a small enough number of pages and not worth the deprecated parameter implementation in the template. I'll leave this open for a day or two for more BAG comment, then I will approve it if nobody objects. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 19:11, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Trial

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Approved for trial (50 edits). Please provide a link to the relevant contributions and/or diffs when the trial is complete. Renaming {{Infobox NFL retired}} to {{Infobox NFL player}} while fixing |birth_date= into |birth_date= and |birth_place=. Renaming alone would constitute redirect bypassing with no community consensus to be done by bot alone for now. Otherwise, it is a substantial non-cosmetic change. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 19:11, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I endorse this trial; providing a |birth_place= is a useful task. Josh Parris 00:07, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I finished the parameter |stat#value= renaming. -- Magioladitis (talk) 22:51, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Was that on {{Infobox NFL retired}}, {{Infobox NFL player}} or both? Josh Parris 00:07, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yobot has fixed the stat parameters for all pages that use either infobox. Eagles 24/7 (C) 00:10, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Trial complete. I have a list of bugs encountered during the trial at User:Eagles247/Bot. Eagles 24/7 (C) 05:32, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Drop us a line once you've resolved the problems you've identified; then we'll look at another trial. Josh Parris 07:05, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've reviewed all the edits.

  • The build of AWB is not identified in the edit summary.

I'm a little concerned that you ran the trial of 50 edits in little over a half hour; this wasn't a speed test. 30% of the edits were erroneous. Other than problems you've identified yourself, I've seen:

Edits with no effect
Edits that failed to identify birthplace / deathplace

Will it be possible to re-process all the pages once you've made your corrections? If so, I propose a second trial reprocessing the first articles, and a third of 25 fresh articles. Josh Parris 11:38, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the feedback, I'll work on addressing your concerns (and mine). Eagles 24/7 (C) 18:32, 14 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You'll need to use the latest AWB build i.e. you need to download rev 7961 (or greater) from http://toolserver.org/~awb/snapshots/ -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:54, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Make sure that you turn off "auto-tag" (You can find it in the Options tab). Auto-tag is slow and has already been performed by Yobot to save you from the effort. -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:58, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Is this to make the bot faster? Eagles 24/7 (C) 19:59, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The latest version has fewer bugs, shows the build number as requested and it's faster. Disactivating auto-tag makes bot much faster. -- Magioladitis (talk) 20:01, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I did most of the general fixes by myself to make your life easier. -- Magioladitis (talk) 21:18, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Eagles 24/7 (C) 21:55, 15 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Edits with no effect can be omitted by setting Skip conditions False unless the main edit is performed.

Yobot is now performing the task. Here is an example of this work. -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:03, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've had a quick look at Yobot's BRfAs and don't see one that matches; have I missed it? Josh Parris 13:42, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I believe that's Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/Yobot_15, though it's non-specific and very "blankety". —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 13:44, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it is BRfA 15. The task is about templates and has consensus to be done. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:02, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The custom module used is available at User:Yobot/NFL. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:04, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Very blankety, but that kind of flexibility is good to hand out to trusted, reliable operators who are willing to wear the risks.
As such, I'm not going to review the edits, on the assumption that Magioladitis has. Josh Parris 14:12, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Josh Parris. Before starting I did some edits from my account to ensure the program works OK. The script was written by Rjwilmsi who is an experienced programmer. I did checks to more than 100 pages while the bot was running. I'll still need Eagles247's help to fix leftovers if any. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:30, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Eagles247, are you still wanting to pursue this BRfA? Josh Parris 14:12, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I just haven't had time to address your concerns. I've solved some of my concerns at User:Eagles247/Bot, however. Eagles 24/7 (C) 19:49, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • What has been done:
    • All pages now use Infobox NFL player
    • All pages where fixed for generic syntax errors
    • Parameters inconsistancies have been fixed
    • All pages now use birth_date and birth_place
  • What needs to be done:
Maglioladitis, your bot added the |birth_place= parameter at the very end of all the infoboxes for some reasons, which is not good. Eagles 24/7 (C) 19:49, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This doesn't change the final result. Rjwilmsi used built-in awb functions which made code faster. Do you think we have to move the parameter under the |birth_date=? -- Magioladitis (talk) 19:58, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, of course. That's what my bot was going to do once approved. Eagles 24/7 (C) 20:00, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If Yobot could undo its recent edits, I can make this happen. I don't know how possible that is, though. Eagles 24/7 (C) 20:01, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Undoing is not a good solution since the new bunch of edits will be the same result with the current one. Moreover, Yobot just did 3,000+ edits. We could move the parameter if necessary. -- Magioladitis (talk) 20:04, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Let's move it then, and I can cleanup the leftovers. Eagles 24/7 (C) 20:09, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I updated the code. Let's see what the BAG guys think about this change. I don't want to start reordering parameters without consulting the BAG. -- Magioladitis (talk) 20:13, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You shouldn't, that's WP:COSMETICBOT. It can be done together with other substantial changes though. —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 20:16, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am now separating the death date/place parameters correctly. I could ask Rjwilmsi to add Personata to all of these pages and at the same time to move the birth_place immediately after birth_date. -- Magioladitis (talk) 10:27, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I finished separating the death date/place parameters. -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:19, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I finished adding Persondata to all NFL players. -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:51, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Withdrawn by operator. Eagles 24/7 (C) 17:15, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it seems all the proposed work was done before you got to it. =/ —  HELLKNOWZ  ▎TALK 17:17, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. To request review of this BRFA, please start a new section at WT:BRFA.
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