Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1982 World Snooker Championship/archive2

Add links
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 14 July 2022 [1].

1982 World Snooker Championship[edit]

Nominator(s): Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:44, 30 April 2022 (UTC), User: BennyOnTheLoose[reply]

This article is about the 1982 edition of the World Snooker Championship. Davis's first defence. Second nomination - let me know what you think! Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:44, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Image review—pass (t · c) buidhe 22:55, 30 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Prose review (Elias)[edit]

  • Doing a prose review of the article. Side note, I have my own FAC up here, and I would appreciate any comments. Of course, while appreciated, you are not obligated to leave a response. ‍ ‍ elias. 🧣 ‍ ‍ 💬reach out to me
    📝see my work     11:43, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • "30 April and 16 May 1982 at the Crucible Theatre, Sheffield, England" --> somewhat awkward placing of commas, but that might just be me. I'd put a "located" between "Crucible Theatre" and "Sheffield" to alleviate that
    • "The tournament was sponsored by cigarette company Embassy and was organised by the World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association (WPBSA)." --> There are a lot of "was"s in the first paragraph of the lead, which raises concerns about repetition. Plus this sentence could be reworded in such a way that the active voice is employed. "Embassy, a British cigarette company, sponsored the tournament, and the World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association (WPBSA) handled the organisation for the event", perhaps?
    • "It had a prize fund of £110,000 and the winner received £25,000." --> a comma before the "and" is missing
    • The lead's second paragraph has a lot of participle phrases. "having defeated Doug Montjoy..." "becoming the latest champion who was unable to defend his first world title..." "defeating Welshman Ray Reardon 18–15 in the final..." all within three consecutive sentences. I believe you can rewrite one or two of these sentences to avoid repetition.
    • "The World Snooker Championship is ... the official snooker world championship" --> this is just restating the title. We can rewrite this to "the official global (or worldwide?) tournament for snooker"
    • I'd rewrite the next sentence to "Developed in the late 19th century by British Army soldiers stationed in India, the sport was popular in the United Kingdom before being introduced to Europe and the Commonwealth" just to avoid having snooker appear in two sentences in a row
      • In view of that wording change, I'd also rewrite "the sport is now played worldwide" to "nowadays, snooker is played worldwide"
    • "governed by the World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association (WPBSA).[6]Thirty-two" --> space after the citation
    • "Thirty-two professional players competing in one-on-one single-elimination matches that were played over several frames." -> I feel like there is a verb missing here, because at the moment this reads like an incomplete sentence
    • " This was the first world championships" -> the verb is singular but the noun is plural
      • Many thanks for the detailed feedback. I've addressed the points above in the article, and hopefully fixed most of them. I've used a slightly different wording about it being the "official" championship, as there are at least two other world snooker championships: the IBSF World Snooker Championship and the World Women's Snooker Championship. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 23:38, 4 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        • No problem! By the way, with regards to this sentence - "The World Snooker Championship is the official world championship of professional snooker. Developed in the late 19th century by British Army soldiers stationed in India, the cue sport was popular in the United Kingdom..." - this essay argues that elegant variation, such as the one used here "world championship of professional snooker... stationed in India, the cue sport...", diminishes clarity. This is because at first glance, readers will not be able to tell what "the cue sport" refers to, and would have to spend more time than necessary figuring out the answer to that question. Here you seem to be doing elegant variation to introduce new information about professional snooker, which the essay says is not always an ideal way to go about it, for the reasons already outlined above. A way to improve clarity would be to put "the cue sport" beside "professional snooker", replacing the term with the "it" pronoun, i.e. "world championship of professional snooker, a cue sport... it was popular in the United Kingdom..."
    • All of the sentences in the third paragraph for the Overview section are in passive voice. I believe the MOS prefers the active voice whenever possible, no?

More comments to come once I get around to reading the tournament summary. :) Please ping me whenever you get around to addressing these points, by the way! FAC pages really need a "subscribe" button in the same way talk page sections do...

Will have a look at these in a mo. You can watchlist FAC pages, btw. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:52, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Troubled.elias. I am considering archiving this as it is six weeks since it was nominated and a consensus to promote does not seem to be forming. But I was wondering if you were planning on continuing your review within the next day or two. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:55, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: sorry that this review (finished in talk) was so, so delayed. A few weeks ago I had my annual medical exams done, and the results were problematic, to say the least. I knew I had to take a wikibreak, but fuck I forgot to put up a template on my user page or notify the nominators. Again, sorry for that.
Anyways, the article seems to be in very good shape! Prose is easy to read, and easy to follow. Jargon is adequately explained or easy to understand from context. My main concerns with the prose when I first came into this --- the repetition and overuse of passive voice --- have been resolved. Edit history seems stable, and all the major details I expect from the article seem to be covered. As far as my knowledge goes, the prose and the tables/diagrams are MOS-compliant. Well done, @Lee Vilenski and @BennyOnTheLoose!

NØ[edit]

I will have a look at this article. The review above looks extensive already so apologies if I repeat something.

  • Is there a reason why newspapers that have articles are unlinked in the references?
  • "a score of 18–12 in the final the previous year" could be "a score of 18–12 in the the previous year's final".
  • "The first World Championship, in 1927, was won by Joe Davis in a final at Camkin's Hall in Birmingham, England." could be active voice.
  • "The tournament was sponsored by cigarette company Embassy." would sound better in active voice too in my opinion, actually this could be done wherever applicable.
  • "after which Knowles scored 67" - points?
  • "Knowles said he had been to a nightclub until 2:00 am that day" - maybe "been at/in a nightclub"? They sound more appropriate than "to" here.
  • "Higgins failed to pot the last red and conceded the frame" - last red what?
  • "Reardon, a six-times champion" - shouldn't this be "six-time champion"?
  • "he had not sufficiently recovered from a broken leg sustained in October 1981" - "he had not sufficiently recovered after sustaining a broken leg in October 1981"
Great work just like all of the other articles in this series. If possible, I would be really glad if you were able to contribute something at my currently active FAC.--NØ 11:05, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Lee Vilenski are you going to address these and will you consider leaving comments at my FAC linked above? Hope you're able to see this.--NØ 01:11, 16 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi MaranoFan. Thanks for the review. I've amended the article in response to most of your comments, except the one about linking newspapers. My understanding is that there should be consistency in whether types of source are linked, and not a presumption that all newspapers will be. But I'm happy to make this amendment if necessary. Regards. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:30, 16 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Great work, Benny. I am going to support the article for promotion.--NØ 17:11, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Epicgenius[edit]

I will leave some feedback a little bit. If I forget to leave any feedback within two days, feel free to ping me. – Epicgenius (talk) 14:28, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Epicgenius. I am considering archiving this as it is six weeks since it was nominated and a consensus to promote does not seem to be forming. So I was wondering if you might be able to start your review within the next day or two. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:57, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sure. Here are my initial comments:
Lead:
  • "at the Crucible Theatre, located in Sheffield, England" - I think this can just be "at the Crucible Theatre in Sheffield, England"
  • "the only one that carried world ranking points" - As in the only tournament of the season that decided a player's status in the world rankings?
  • "World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association (WPBSA) handled the organisation for the event" - I'm not sure if it's an ENGVAR thing but isn't it "the organisation of the event"?
  • Amended, and also changed "handled" to "governed" as in those days there was a separate promoter, Mike Watterson, who was very hands-on in terms of the organisation. He's mentioned in the body. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 08:42, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "with a score of 18–12 in a score of 18–12" - I'm guessing this is repeated by mistake.
  • "becoming the latest champion who failed to defend his first world title at the venue" - Currently, this phrasing seems to imply that there would be previous champions who failed to defend their first world title at the Crucible Theatre. Since I don't see any mention of any such champions, perhaps this can be condensed.
More later. – Epicgenius (talk) 19:22, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Epicgenius ? Gog the Mild (talk) 17:19, 16 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I did not receive a ping and didn't know about this until now. I intend to review the rest of the article today. – Epicgenius (talk) 17:05, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Overview:
  • "The World Snooker Championship is the official world championship of professional snooker. Developed in the late 19th century by British Army soldiers stationed in India, the cue sport..." - The wording used here, in which the fact that snooker is only mentioned as a cue sport in the second sentence, is quite awkward. I think the wording on 2018 World Snooker Championship is also applicable here and flows much more naturally: "The World Snooker Championship is an annual cue sport tournament and is the official world championship of the game of snooker.[1] Snooker was founded in the late 19th century by British Army soldiers stationed in India.[2] The sport originated by players from the United Kingdom, and later players from Europe and the Commonwealth."
  • "Nowadays, snooker is played worldwide, especially becoming popular in East and Southeast Asia" - This is also a strange sentence structure, particular the "especially becoming popular" part. I'd say: "Nowadays, snooker is played worldwide and has become especially popular in East and Southeast Asia".
  • "There were 67 entrants for the 1982 tournament" - Shouldn't this be entrants in the tournament? Alternatively, you can use active voice e.g. "The 1982 tournament had 67 entrants". But see below.
  • "There were 67 entrants for the 1982 tournament including the qualifying event, a new record" - To me, it seems like the phrase "1982 tournament including the qualifying event" is missing something, even though it's grammatically correct (there were 67 entrants in the tournament, but only if you count the qualifying event). I think this can be remedied by putting that clause first, e.g. "In the 1982 tournament including the qualifying event, there were 67 entrants, a new record"
  • "The breakdown of prize money on offer for 1982 is shown below:" - There is a sentence after this, so the colon should be a period. Or, you can move this sentence to the end of the paragraph.
More later. (I promise I won't just go silent for a month this time around. I'll have the remaining comments by tomorrow, 7 July.) – Epicgenius (talk) 23:00, 6 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
LOL. Mental image of big clock ticking. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:27, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Tournament summary:
  • "Knowles said he had been at a nightclub until 2:00 am that day and had slept for only five hours." - Knowles had only slept for five hours and still won? That's impressive.
  • "Bear won the next three frames to reduce the lead to 7–5, but Werbeniuk won 10–7." - Would it be better to say "Werbeniuk ultimately won 10–7"?
  • "Eight-time champion Fred Davis, the event's oldest competitor at the age of 68, lost 7–10 to Dean Reynolds, who at 19 was the youngest participant in the tournament" - I think "in the tournament" may be unnecessary given that "the event" is already mentioned in the beginning of the sentence.
  • "The referee could have interpreted this as Fagan conceding the frame" - "This" being hitting the cue ball while it's still moving?
  • "Higgins won the first three frames of his match against Mountjoy; two of them on the final black ball after trailing on points in each of them, and finished their first session leading 6–2." - The semicolon should really be a comma, as the second half of the sentence isn't a standalone sentence.
  • "making a break of 126" - Was this when White led Stevens 10–6?
  • "White left Higgins with a chance in the second frame but Higgins failed to pot the last red ball" - Does this mean White intentionally didn't pot the red ball so as to give Higgins an opportunity to do so?
  • "In the third session, White took three of the first four frames, compiling a break of 89 in the fourth of these to lead 11–8," - The last period should be a comma.
  • "Charlton gained a 3–0 lead over Reardon[42] but lost the next four frames. Reardon made breaks of 50, 47, 48 and 35" - These breaks being the next four frames? If so, I would make that a bit clearer.
  • "It was Higgins's fourth world final following his win in 1972, and his losing appearances in the 1976 and 1980 finals." - Is the comma necessary?
  • "The 1982 final was a rematch of the 1976 final, which Reardon won 27–16." I'd suggest "which Reardon had won"
  • "Before the tourament" - There is a spelling error.
  • "He was fined £1,000 by the Association, for bringing the game into disrepute." - Would it be better to say "The Association fined him £1,000 for bringing the game into disrepute"?
Main draw, Qualifying, Century breaks - No issues with the prose there.
That's all from me. This is a pretty well-written article, and I was only able to find relatively few issues. – Epicgenius (talk) 16:33, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from JennyOz[edit]

Hello Lee - and Benny? I have a few questions and suggestions for clarity or to avoid ambiguity...

  • Steve Davis had defeated Doug Mountjoy with a score of 18–12 in a score of 18–12 in the previous year's final - score is repeated
  • In 1982, he lost 1–10 to Tony Knowles - change "he" to Davis
  • champion who failed to defend his first world title - champion to fail to defend his
  • popular in the United Kingdom before being introduced to Europe - mainland Europe (or rest of Europe or wider Europe)
  • Nowadays, snooker is played worldwide, especially in East and Southeast Asian nations - "especially" is wrong word? ie sounds like is played more there than anywhere else? Maybe, 'especially becoming popular in...'
  • nations such as China, Hong Kong and Thailand - HK not a nation
  • Joe Davis won the first World Championship, in 1927, at Camkin's Hall in Birmingham, England. - maybe 'Championship held in 1927 at Camkin's '
  • amended, but retained the comma after "Championship"
  • There were 67 entrants for the 1982 tournament, a new record.[10] - add 'including the qualifying event' (because you called it a "pre-tournament" event)
  • This was the first world championship to have 32 players - 'all' 32
  • Not amended (yet). 1980 and 1981 had 24 players in the main event, and the few years preceding that had 16, so the point is that the total number was increased. I'll find a source to add something about the number of players in the main event changing, and reword. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:38, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The breakdown of prize money for 1982 is shown below - money on offer? ie if no max break achieved the £110,000 would not be awarded, add 'possible'? ie breakdown of possible prize money
  • was a new record high for the world - high is redundant?
  • Amended. ("high" distinguished it from being a record low I suppose, but that would be an unusual way to say it was a new low.) BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:38, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • after Davis failed to pot the final black ball twice - twice failed to pot
  • Without making a significant break, Davis won - wlink break
  • Davis made a foul shot - wlink
  • by lightly feathering the cue ball while - accidentally?
  • and played without vision aids. - without any eyewear?
  • John Virgo defeated Mike Hallett 10–4 after leading 7–2. - add 'in the first session'
  • Terry Griffiths, the next bookmakers' favourite after Steve Davis's - the bookmakers' next favourite
  • Terry Griffiths, the next bookmakers' favourite after Steve Davis's elimination elimination - repeated word
  • Alex Higgins, who had said he was having - wlink AH
  • Fagan made the highest break of match - break of 'thrir' match
  • five of the top-eight seeds were - is hyphen necessary?
  • Steve Davis (1), Thorburn (2), Griffiths (3) - I'd put 'seeded' in the first parentheses to help reader ie Steve Davis (seeded 1),
  • who were also the top-three - hyphen needed?
  • Knowles defeated Miles by 13–7 - remove by
  • Francisco won the first four frames of his match against Reynolds, and after leading 5–3 and 9–5,[28] won it 13–8.[29] - this is repeated from previous paragraph
  • Higgins then won the next three consecutively for 12–10 - consecutively is redundant
  • Stevens defeated Fagan by 13–7 - remove by
  • File Jimmy White alt=Jimmy White wearing a waistcoar and bow tie - typo waistcoat
  • when Knowles missed an routine green ball. - 'a' routine
  • After this, Charlton made a break of 78 - Charlton then made a break
  • White, by defeating Stevens, had become the - add 'in the quarter-finals' after Stevens
  • White made breaks of 60 and 38, and won the second frame to even the score - ?
  • White again drew level at 4–4 - remove "again" or add a comma after "level"
  • compiling a breaks of 69 in the first and 52 in the second - remove "a"
  • White won the first frame of the fourth session and Higgins fluked a brown in the following frame, which he went on to win. The scores were level at 13–13 - should be 12-12? ie they were 11-11 at end last session?
  • In the 32nd frame, White was 59 points - should that be 30th frame?
  • Reardon won five successive frames to with the match 16–11 - "with" --> win
  • Amended per the six point above. 10:52, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
  • Sheffield Snooker Centre - is that a different venue to the Crucible?
  • There was a £5,000 bonus for compiling a break higher than the championship record of 145. - 'On offer' was a £5,000 bonus ...
  • Missing? - any reaction in media worth reporting? How were players rankings affected after final?
  • I've added some notes on ranking changes, and about the post-tournament disciplinary that Higgins faced. I couldn't really find anything in the way of reflective commentary about the tournament either in books or in newspapers; most discuss the semi-final between White and Higgins in at least as much detail as the final, and cover the same ground as in the seond paragraph of the section about the final. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:09, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, JennyOz (talk) 15:48, 13 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks, JennyOz. There are a couple of points still outstanding from above that I'll look at sources for. Hopefully I haven't created any new problems whilst addressing your comments. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:52, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the delay in responding, JennyOz. Thanks again for your careful and constructive review. Let me know about anything that still needs addressing. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 17:09, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Looking good, Benny. Just a few new minor tweaks...
  • re Epic's suggestion ""at the Crucible Theatre, located in Sheffield, England" - I think this can just be "at the Crucible Theatre in Sheffield, England"" - I think he meant to remove "located in" not remove "England"?
  • Davis made a foul shot by - wlink?
  • Griggiths, who had been third - typo Griffiths
  • who had been third, droped to - typo dropped
  • by accidentaly lightly feathering - typo accidentally
  • Amended per the five points above. (Looks like I failed to read what I wrote, sorry!) BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:18, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • latest edit (by IP) - if letting that stand, at "when his championship first rank position" change "his" to "Higgins's"
  • It looks like a good faith edit, but I reverted it as it was not factually correct (changes discussed were in 1982, not Feb 1981), and it used unusual phrasing for snooker. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:18, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 49 new Everton book Black Farce and Cue ball Wizards - cap B on ball and format the ISBN per others
That's it from me. Looking forward to s'porting! JennyOz (talk) 06:17, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, JennyOz! Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:18, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for tweaks Benny, I am happy to sign my support for promotion. (cc Gog), JennyOz (talk) 10:23, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

Spotchecks not done. Version reviewed

  • "It was the 19th event of the 1981–82 snooker season and the only one that carried world ranking points." - source?
  • Removed "19th" as this doesn't appear in sources. Amended body text, with a source, to say it was the only event of the season that carried ranking points. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:10, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Be consistent in when/if you include publication location
  • What makes Rose Villa Publications a high-quality reliable source?
  • They publish local news outlets (website) but really, in my opinion, the credibility of the source derives from the authors. Hayton was the managing editor of CueSport magazine (at least for part of its history), which was nationally distributed in the UK from 2000 to 2009. John Dee, who was also associated with CueSport and contributed to the book, was the snooker editor of The Daily Telegraph. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:10, 1 July 2022 (UTC)Terry Smith, another Telegraph correspondent, and author/editor of a few snooker books, was also a contributor to the magazine.[reply]
  • FN4: edition should be in its own parameter
  • Be consistent in when/if you include publisher for periodicals
  • I've included publisher for magazines, but not for newspapers, as the magazines cited are likely to be less familiar and researchable to readers. Otherwise, I hope this is now fixed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:31, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN49: can you verify the publisher is correct as listed? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:18, 26 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the review, Nikkimaria. I really appreciate it. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:31, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Nikkimaria, how is this looking now? Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:06, 4 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Should be good to go. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:42, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/1982_World_Snooker_Championship/archive2&oldid=1098254317"