Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/2002 World Snooker Championship/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 31 October 2021 [1].

2002 World Snooker Championship[edit]

Nominator(s): Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:51, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the last World Snooker Championship final of the most successful player at the event Stephen Hendry. Hendry, who won the event seven times in the 1990s met Peter Ebdon and went to a deciding frame! Ebdon won the event to win his only world championship. Hendry made 16 century breaks during the event, a record amount for a single player at a single event. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:51, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

image review

  • Captions that are complete sentences should end in periods. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:43, 23 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Amakuru[edit]

Overview
  • Maybe mention that the world championship is an annual event
  • Also mention that it's organised by the WPBSA, and it's a bit unclear what "official" means here
  • "25th consecutive time" - maybe "consecutive year" instead?
  • "amateur qualifying tournament" - what is meant by amateur in this context? The opening sentence says it's a "professional" tournament, so seems slightly contradictory.
    • Amateur means they have amateur status, which generally means they don't compete on the World Snooker Tour. Only one person has ever actually come through the qualification rounds to play in the main competition (James Cahill in 2019). It's similar to the The Open Championship, which is a professional event, but has some of the top amateurs in qualification/invitational spots. It's generally a very small amount of amateur players who actually make the real qualification rounds (eight players in this year, it's usually 16), and then they have to go through many rounds of actual qualification. The sport does have a history of professional events also having players who don't have that status, either by wildcard rounds, or because someone pulled out. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:47, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "at Manhattan Club, Harrogate and" - need a comma after Harrogate; also just checking if it should be the Manhattan Club?
  • "played as best-of-19-frames. The number of frames needed to win a match increased to 13 in the second round and quarter-finals, and 17 in the semi-finals" - slightly confusing mix of nomenclatures here; it might be obvious, but I'd suggest either switch them all to be be consistently "best of" or "first to", or clarify that best-of-19 also means first to 10 or whatever.
  • "Stage one" / "Stage two" - what are these? Previously we talked of a "qualification stage" and a "main draw", so perhaps they're the same things, but I couldn't be certain of that
First round
  • Minor point, but we already said earlier that the rounds here were best-of-19; I guess it could be useful to reiterate, but worth thinking about
    • Yeah, I've been both ways on this one. The way I see it, is that as the amounts change, it's worth reiterating at the start of each section what the scores are going to be. We also get the chance then to comment how many sessions are being played, as it's not just 19 frames in a row. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:13, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and lead 6–3 at the end of their first session" - I think this should be "led"?
  • "and lead 6–3 at the end of their first session, and won the last frame with a break of 111 as he won 10–4" - too many ands in this sentence, and also the double "won" sounds slightly repetitive
  • "Maximum break" was first mentioned in the "Prize fund" section above, so seems like it should be linked there rather than here
  • "failing to pot the final pink ball" - slightly confused here, as the final ball should be a black. Also, during a maximum break there would only ever be one pink potted.
    • Technically, yes. Although it is more than possible to pot two pink balls and still finish with a maximum break. I have removed final though Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:13, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in-a-row" - I don't think this needs hyphenating. There are a few of these throughout the article.
  • "This and the match between Hunter" - "This" sounds like it means the cue-snapping incident, so perhaps say "This match" or similar
Second round
  • "and won just one frame in the second session and was defeated 3–13" - double "and" again
  • "In the eight frame, the final frame" - repetition of "frame"
  • "This was particularly unexpected given White's reputation for good sportsmanship" - sounds like more of an opinion than an objective fact to be given in Wikipedia's voice. If someone has said this, maybe attribute it to them.
  • "Hamilton had been defeated by Williams in the final of the China Open earlier in the season, said that the previous match" - doesn't quite scan. Either needs to be "Hamilton, who had...", or an "and" after "season".
Quarter-finals
  • This section feels quite short, with the match summaries looking briefer than other rounds, for example the O'Sullivan–Lee and Ebdon–Hamilton games. Maybe expand a bit.
    • Fair enough, I'll see what's out there. If I remember rightly, there's not much online, but I shall take a deep dive. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:33, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • I've added a very exciting piece about O'Sullivan breaking the table, I'm yet to find anything interesting about the Ebdon match (and, some might say, all Ebdon matches ;)). Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:11, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "who had only conceded three frames in his previous two matches trailed" - comma after matches
  • "Matthew Stevens made the highest break of the championship" - don't need "Matthew"; also was this the highest to that point, or did it remain the highest?
Semi-finals
  • "O'Sullivan made comments due to a dispute from a previous event" - feels like this needs slightly more detail
    • I've expanded per source. I don't know when this actually happened though. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:33, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "ended up winning 17–13" - sounds slightly informal; maybe "went on to win 17–13" or similar
Final
  • "Ebdon (seeded seventh) and Stephen Hendry (fifth) also competed in the 1996 final. Hendry had defeated Ebdon 18–12 to gain his sixth world title in 1996" - a bit long-winded and repetitious; maybe something like "Ebdon (seeded seventh) and Stephen Hendry (fifth) had also competed in the 1996 final, with Hendry defeating Ebdon 18–12 to gain his sixth world title".
  • Sean Ingle - link
  • "Many commentators had been expecting Hendry to take his eighth world title" - this feels a bit redundant at this point; perhaps just combine the commentators' expectation with the point above about the eight million viewers anticipating the eighth world title.
  • "His defeat effectively signalled the start of his decline as a major force in the game of snooker" - sounds a bit like an opinion; suggest either attributing it to someone, or rewording to be more of an objective observation
    • Yeah, I'd love to attribute this to someone, but the source doesn't specifically say this, so I've removed. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:33, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Qualifying
  • "The final qualifying round was held at Newport on 16 and 17 March 2002" - the "Format" section earlier mentioned rounds at the Manhattan Club and the TIC, but did not mention anything about Newport. Needs a link somewhere too, not least because there is more than one Newport.
  • "the open World Championship" - what does "open" mean in this context? Also perhaps give a date of when the "open era" began if that's relevant
    • I think someone is making the suggestion that this event is open to both men and women, rather than the women's world championship. I have removed as irrelevant. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:50, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Additional comments

That's about it. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 13:06, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    • just one outstanding piece about expanding the quarters, I'll take a look at your FAC in a bit. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:33, 4 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      @Lee Vilenski: thanks, and let me know when you've had a chance to look at the quarter-final point. All looking good apart from that, cheers.  — Amakuru (talk) 07:46, 6 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator note[edit]

Three weeks in and only one general support. Unless this nomination picks up further interest over the next two or three days I am afraid that it is liable to be archived. Gog the Mild (talk) 23:32, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from zmbro[edit]

Now I'm not knowledgeable on this subject whatsoever, but I'd thought I'd provide a few comments so it's not archived.

  • Noticing quite a few sources aren't archived and some (such as ref 48) are missing publication dates. I'd make sure all are archived and have authors/dates/etc. if applicable
    • I'll go through them all at length in a bit. I have covered ref 48.
  • Ref 42: the Guardian should be The Guardian
  • Is there any more info on the Crucible Almanac? Not seeing an isbn, publisher, or location. It also might be better to do the sfn template here
    • It's only used four times, so it's not that bad. It's a self-published source, but well above the level at WP:SPS. It's written by Chris Downer who's a snooker historian. We only use it for match results and statistics. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:07, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

These are what I find so far. Hope I helped! – zmbro (talk) 15:50, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from BennyOnTheLoose[edit]

(Note for transparency - I've contributed to this article in the past.)

  • "The championships were sponsored by cigarette manufacturer Embassy." - Is is the lead, but not in the body of the article.
  • Looks like there is one duplicate link (Newport).
  • I amended "issue" to "date" in Snooker Scene refs.

Overview

  • "The World Snooker Championship is a professional tournament and the official world championship of the game of snooker" - how about "The World Snooker Championship is the official world championship of the game of professional snooker"?
  • " organised by the WPBSA" - I'd say "organised by World Snooker" (and use the same wikilink). Source has "World Snooker Limited", referring to an entity that is mainly owned by Matchroom Sport with the WPBSA holding a 26% stake. WPBSA is the governing body, so might be fine to keep that in the infobox, possibly needing a source.
  • "the sport was popular in the British Isles. However, in the modern era" - I believe this has passed inspection in other snooker FACs, but today it's making me ask "when was it popular in the British Isles, is it still?" In some articles I think this historical background is omitted, which is one option, with another being to tweak it.
  • "in Sheffield, England" appears twice in close proximity.
  • "There were a total of 120" - I think could just be "There were 120" or "A total of 120"
  • "Manhattan Club, Harrogate, the Telford International Centre and in Newport, Wales." The Newport venue was Newport Centre (Wales) according to Snooker Scene ("Final Qualifying Round Draw", March 2002, page 35)

Century breaks

  • "This was just the second time that the highest break of the tournament was 145, after Doug Mountjoy's in 1981." - I'm not sure that this is worth including.

Lead

  • "18–17 in the final" - consider something like "by 18 frames to 17 in the final"
    • I am not a fan of this much, I think everyone understands that they won 18 to 17, whatever the figures mean. We can go into details in the body. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:10, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The highest of the tournament was made by Stevens, who made" - maybe add "break" after "highest" - substitute something else for one instance of made, e.g. "compiled"
  • "a record for any individual tournament" - specify whether for any player and whether still current.

Format

  • "Mark Williams seeded 2" - should this be "Mark Williams seeded second"? (I think MOS likes us to avoid numebrrs like 2 appearing as numerals)

Prize fund

  • The £1,615,770 excludes the qualifying and main competition maximum break prizes. So I think the lead is right that "£1,615,770 was awarded". But the total available prize fund was £1,615,770 + £147,000 + £5,000. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 13:33, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Added a mention that this figure doesn't include the bonus money. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:10, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

First Round

  • "played as the best-of-19 frames matches, played over" - repetition of "played"
  • "had smashed the pack of reds open" - anything else from sources that could be added to mention that this is unusual in snooker?
  • "snapped his cue stick" - maybe "snapped his own cue stick" to be very clear that it wasn't his opponent's one?
  • "and the contest between Hunter and Hann" maybe add something like "which was being played at the same time" - assuming there was ony the one streaking incident.

Second round

  • "session to spare" has a cuegloss entry.
  • "second session match again" - presumably "the second session of his match against"

Semi-finals

  • "the Daily Telegraph" - either capital T, or take "the" out of the wikilink.

Final

Thanks, don't think I have much more. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:47, 21 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • should be "the Guardian" to be consistent with "the Daily Telegraph".
  • Some refs have gone out of order in the section about the final ([55][40][56])
  • Ref 36 is missing the author.
  • Should the one "note" be in a separate Notes section rather than under references?
  • Ref. 11 is incomplete ("Snooker: World championship finds new sponsors". 19 January 2006.)

Source Review[edit]

Pass. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:11, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done. Version reviewed

  • Lead says 26th consecutive year at Crucible, text says 25th - which is correct?
  • "The championships were sponsored by cigarette manufacturer Embassy. " - source?
  • In general, check for consistency between lead and text, and that everything in the lead is supported in the text
  • Be consistent in how you format BBC refs
  • What makes Global Snooker Centre a high-quality reliable source? global-snooker?
    • They are both the same, (although they were rebranded thus the different names). They were run by Global Cue Sports Ltd, which had an editorial roll; although I can't find much online about them. There isn't too much in there that isn't covered by other sources, so can remove if there's need. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 12:14, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • Any info on specific editorial policies? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • nothing specific I could find. They were easy to replace, so I have done so. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 08:31, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN12: don't include website name in title. Ditto FN13, check throughout
  • Don't need retrieval date if no URL is included, and don't put it in |via=
  • FN42 is missing author
  • (London) isn't part of the title of The Times - if it's to be included it should be a separate parameter, and if it is included here should be consistent (eg The Guardian doesn't include it)
  • FN98: Snooker Archive is the website name, don't need domain. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:27, 16 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seeing some inconsistencies around newspaper citations - compare for example FN11, FN54, and FN55. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:04, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from ChrisTheDude[edit]

  • "The championships were sponsored by cigarette manufacturer Embassy." (in two places) - this seems to be the only use of "championships" (plural). Suggest it be in the singular to match other uses
  • "organised by the World Snooker" - is the correct usage really the World Snooker? It reads rather oddly to me......
    • Yeah, it did say "the WPBSA", per Benny, this was changed. It is indeed not "the World Snooker". Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 08:58, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "accused White of making a push shot" - what's a "push shot"? Is there an appropriate link?
  • "This match and the contest between Hunter and Hann was" - subject is plural, so it should be "were"
  • In the second round section, it's a bit of a mishmash as to whether you restate the forename of players who were mentioned in the previous round. Per MOS:SURNAME, I would suggest that all such players should just be referred to by their surname after the first mention (same applies to later sections)
  • "In the eight and final frame" => eighth, not eight
  • "Hamilton, who had been defeated by Williams in the final of the China Open earlier in the season, despite being ahead by three frames." - this is not a complete sentence
  • "Williams commented that despite being ranked number one in the world, his...." - needs a comma before "that" to start the clause that the later comma closes
  • Cue stick is linked in the quarter-finals section but this is not the first mention - move the link to the first mention
  • "O'Sullivan experienced the crucible curse" - need a capital on Crucible as it refers to the venue, not just to the general concept of a crucible
  • "Stevens, however moved within one frame of victory at 16–14" - needs a comma after however as well as before
  • "The final held between Peter Ebdon and Stephen Hendry was played as a best-of-35 frames match over four sessions on 5 and 6 May. Ebdon (seeded seventh) and Stephen Hendry (fifth) had also competed....." - reuse of forenames is especially inconsistent here.......
  • Refs on the last sentence of the final section are not in correct numerical order
  • "having also have done so in 1994" - wording goes a bit weird there.......
  • "Then with just four reds remaining on the table,[59] Hendry potted" - needs a comma before "with" to open the clause which the later comma closes
  • "The Guardian's Sean Ingle described the final as "one of the sporting highlights of the year."[56] He ultimately blamed his defeat...." - who did the blaming in question? If it was Ingle, then you need to change that bit to "He ultimately blamed Hendry's defeat" Or was it Hendry? In that case you'd need to change it to "Hendry ultimately blamed his defeat"
  • "This was Hendry's last appearance in a World Championship final, and reached his last ranking final four years later" => "This was Hendry's last appearance in a World Championship final, and he reached his last ranking final four years later"
  • Bit surprised to read through the whole article and then find details of the qualifying rounds at the end. Surely these should come before the account of the tournament proper?
    • I do if we have a decent account. I can move it up if you'd like, but it's quite a short section covering who qualified. The qualifiers back then were much less prominant than they are now. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 08:58, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wikilink WIllie Thorne in the prose of the qualifying section, as you have done with the likes of Knowles and Fisher
  • On a similar note, players with articles are not wikilinked in the prose for the qualifying rounds
  • "lost in the seventh round of amateur qulifying" - typo on "qualifiying"
  • Should the "Amateur qualifying" sub-heading be changed to "Amateur pre-qualifying" to match the usage in the prose......?
  • "saw John Parrott qualify for the Crucible stage for the 19the consecutive year" - typo on 19th
  • That's what I got.... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:06, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm still seeing some players in the prose of the qualifying section who could be linked but are not e.g. in the round 3-6 section, Steve Davis is linked but Ryan Day and Shaun Murphy are not......? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:11, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Apologies. Murphy isn't linked because he was already mentioned in the prose and linked there. I missed Day, who is now linked Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 12:17, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • I made a few minor changes in that section and am now happy to support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:47, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@FAC coordinators: - hi! Is there anything more I need for this nomination? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:17, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Lee, looks pretty much there, will probably check over in the next day or so. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:10, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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