Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/2012–13 Michigan Wolverines men's basketball team/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 10:03, 9 November 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

2012–13 Michigan Wolverines men's basketball team[edit]

2012–13 Michigan Wolverines men's basketball team (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:19, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because it is a very important season for WP:CBBALL. It chronicles a national player of the year's season as well as the 2013 NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Tournament runner-up team's season. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:19, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that I attempted to get this cleaned up at WP:PR and the request was ignored for a full cycle.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:25, 9 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think it should be worth noting that Tony is currently blocked indefinitely. GamerPro64 13:48, 11 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest removal by delegate The nominator is unable to either respond to comments or withdraw the article, seems best that it is removed until he is unblocked Jimfbleak - talk to me? 14:32, 12 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • I am back.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:05, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • I was just going to say that. Since Tony has been unblocked, I don't see why this can't stay up now. Presumably, he will now be around to reply to reviewers' commentary. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:07, 15 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

  • Bold links like the one at the start are discouraged by the MoS. I'd recommend moving the team link to the second sentence.
  • I don't link "National Champions" should be capitalized in the second paragraph.
  • A bit later, "Repeat" definitely shouldn't be capitalized.
  • Preseason: "ESPN's Eamonn Brennan noted that Michigan is a perimeter oriented team with possibly the best one-two guard combination in the country." "is" → "was" for past tense.
  • A space is needed after ref 48.
  • WE ON: Not sure why there are three periods before "Michigan State went on to win the game by 23 points." Giants2008 (Talk) 01:24, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:01, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Schedule: A period is needed after "giving the team its first 8–0 start since the 1996–97 team".
      • By the West Virginia game, the coach's name is misspelled as "Bielien".
      • Statistics: In the text below the table, 1218 should have a comma if 1,231 does, for consistency.
      • "Stauskas to a Michigan single-season record total of 80". Feels like something is missing before "to".
      • Don't think that 2013 NBA Draft should be linked in the section heading. The link in the first sentence of the section is all that is needed.
      • Typo in the title of the last reference: "e On".
      • Ref 3 needs a publisher and access date, and probably a publishing date since ESPN usually gives them.
      • Ref 52 also needs a publisher and access date.
      • Ref 54 needs dates too. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:27, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        • Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:51, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
          • One more item I just noticed, which should definitely be addressed before this is promoted: The beginning of the body has in quotes, "The Wolverines appeared in the national championship game, the first time the team had done so since 1989, appearances in 1992 and 1993 were vacated due to a scandal". I believe this is covered later, and if it isn't this is not the right place for the text to appear. I also think that it would be good if some of the long paragraphs in the season summary were broken up further, but that is a luxury compared to the first point. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:10, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
            • I have cited the 1989/1993 issue in the proper part of the text.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:54, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
            • In regard to breaking up the long paragraphs, I am open to suggestions. Right now each paragraph is about a month long. There are no basketball season FAs (pro or college) so I guess we are setting a standard by acting or not acting on this issue. I could break each month out as a subsection with separate paragraphs if you think that works.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:54, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
              • I like the idea of subsections. Each of the four longest paragraphs in the regular season summary could stand to be split, and subsections could help accomplish that. I also think that the postseason summary could use some splitting; one possible way of doing this is to put everything before the South Dakota State game in a paragraph, and then have two paragraphs for the rest of the content. Giants2008 (Talk) 02:09, 13 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
                • I have tried breaking things up. Let me know if I overdid it or if it resulted in further concerns.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:41, 13 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
                  • Support – The paragraph splits look good to me, and since that was my last remaining issue I feel comfortable supporting now. Giants2008 (Talk) 02:03, 14 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Toa Nidhiki05 16:55, 26 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Toa Nidhiki05

Going to go over a list all concerns I see.

Lede

*Insert a comma after 'Ann Arbor, Michigan'.

  • The bit about the team recording the most wins in 20 years is worded a bit awkwardly IMO; it isn't made clear whether or not this is the most wins for Michigan or the entire NCAA over the period. Change it to something along the lines of 'The team achieved a 31–8 record, the most wins the program has recorded in 20 seasons'.
  • Insert a comma after 'Stu Douglass'.
  • Who was the recruiting class ranked highly by (media, fans, etc.)?
  • 'With its new lineup, the team matched the greatest starts in school history. Reaching 11–0 matched the best start since the last Michigan national champions, the 1988–89 team. At 16–0, Michigan matched their best start since the last repeat Big Ten Regular season championship, the 1985–86 team, tying a school record. Reaching 19–1 set a record for the best start in school history.' This runs a bit long and seems a bit redundant to me. I would suggest just noting the last bit - that the team's 19-1 start set a record for the best start in school history.
  • Just a note, the new Big Ten abbreviation looks incredibly silly, but good job in using it instead of the older 'B10'. :P

*'The team entered February with a 20–1 record (7–1 B1G), but with an injury to eventual B1G All-Defensive selectee Jordan Morgan and a stretch of games against its strongest conference opponents, Michigan lost three out of four games and closed the season with a 5–5 run to finish tied for fourth in the conference. They then won one game in the Big Ten Tournament before being eliminated.' Once again, a bit of a run-on. I would suggest putting a period after noting they lost three of their last four games, and then combining the other two sentences.

*Remove the quotation marks around 'official' per WP:SCAREQUOTES. I would suggest rewording this sentence entirely to something along the lines of "The Wolverines appeared in the national championship game, the first time the team had done so since 1989; appearances in 1992 and 1993 were vacated due to a scandal".

Preseason roster changes

*'The team lost both of its 2011–12 Michigan Wolverines captains to graduation after they completed their eligibility the prior season.' No need to note the previous season specifically; just say 'the team had lost both of its captains from the previous season...'

*Move or remove the 'April 7' in front of 'Nike Hoops Summit', as it is not part of the event's name.

Preseason

*'...were ranked number 1 and 3 respectively.' Add a comma after 3.

Slogans, nicknames, and emblems

*'According to David Brandon, assistant coach LaVall Jordan and director of basketball operations Travis Conlan, guided to the team to develop the slogan' Remove the comma after Conlan.

  • 'The shirts are blue with maize lettering' Note those two colors are Michigan's team colors; some readers may not know this.
  • Put a comma after 'Wolverine Excellence'.
  • Writing in the 'ON' section should be in past-tense, since the season is over.
  • 'Prior to the season, the five freshman were dubbed the "Fresh Five", a moniker harkening remembrance of the Fab Five, but that was downplayed most of the season.' Change 'harkening' to 'hearkening' and note who the Fab Five were. As a side note, why was the phrase downplayed, and who was it downplayed by?
  • You may want to note that Stauskas is Canadian in this section, as some readers might not remember that bit. Also, just change '(Michigan Wolverines men's basketball student section at Crisler Arena)' to '(Michigan's student section at Crisler Arena)'.
Schedule

One thing I notice in this is that this section is big, and has a lot of text. It would be very difficult to find anything in particular here, especially individual game result. I would suggest this be divided somehow - like dividing it into regular season and postseason sections, or dividing it by month up until the tournament. With that out of the way, I'll get on to the section itself.

    • When you noted this new paragraphs began at the beginning of December, January and February. I just split out the beginning of March too.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:31, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Good, I just noticed that after I posted. Was just a suggestion. :) Toa Nidhiki05 23:35, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

*'In its November 12 contest against the IUPUI Jaguars, the team's 91–54 victory gave it its first consecutive 90-point performances since the 2000–01 team, did so with 90 against Oakland and 92 against Western Michigan as part of a November 2000 3-game 90-point streak.' Seems a bit weirdly worded. I'd change this to 'The team's first game of the tournament, a November 12 contest against the IUPUI Jaguars, resulted in a 91–54 victory for Michigan. The win also gave Michigan its first consecutive 90-point performances since the 2000–01 team recorded three consecutive 90-point games.'

  • 'This is the first time the team has posted three consecutive 30-point wins since the eventual 1989 national champion 1988–89 team won 5 consecutive 30-point games in December 1988.[74]' Once again, wierd wording. Change to something like 'The win also marked the first time Michigan has posted three consecutive 30-point wins since the 1988-89 Wolverines team (the 1989 national champions) did so.'
  • 'On November 21, the team unveiled warm up shirts bearing the phrase "WE ON", which relates to a locker room light switch each player must turn on before entering the court, according to ESPN reporter and former AnnArbor.com reporter Michael Rothstein.[75] Michigan assistant coach Bacari Alexander tweeted that WE ON is an acronym for "When Everyone Operates NSynch" that summarizes team-focussed mindset.[76]' Remove this section, as the info is already covered in an earlier section.
  • 'On November 27, Michigan raised its Big Ten championship banner from the season before.[83] Then, the team defeated its first ranked opponent of the season, NC State (#18 AP/18 Coaches),[84] in the ACC–Big Ten Challenge behind Burke's first career double-double which included a career-high 11 assists, no turnovers and 18 points, and a career-high 20 points from Stauskas in a 79–72 victory.[85]' Put a '#' in front of the coaches poll number. This is also a bit of a run-on, so I would recommend splitting it into two sentences.
  • 'It was the third game that Michigan never trailed.' Third game in what? The season, or in team history?
  • 'On December 4, Michigan defeated Western Michigan 73–41, giving the team its first 8–0 start since the 1996–97 team[90] Again the team never trailed in the game.[91]'. Put a comma before citation 90. Remove 'Again'.
  • 'Michigan went to 10–0 on December 11, by defeating Binghamton 67–39.[94][95]' Remove the comma.
  • 'The game also marked the team's second game without Jon Horford who dislocated his knee during the West Virginia game.[104]' Put a comma after 'Horford'.
  • 'On January 6, Burke and Robinson both posted their third and first career double-doubles, respectively in a 95–67 against Iowa. It marked the first time that the team scored 90 points in back to back games since the 1999–2000 team and tied for the most points in a conference game since the 1997–98 team.[111][112]' Two things here; first, put a comma after 'respectively'. Second, the second paragraph claims to be the first time that the team had scored 90-points in consecutive games since the 1999-2000 team. Which is true?
  • We start getting into repetition issues around here; a ton of sentences begin with 'On [x date]'. This should be changed somehow.
  • 'On January 17, Michigan defeated Minnesota (#9 AP/#12 Coaches)[120] at Williams Arena, marking the first time Michigan defeated a top-10 team on the road since a December 6, 1996 victory by the 1996–97 team over Duke.[121]' Add a comma after '1996'.
  • 'Since he scored 21 points on 7-for-8 shooting (4-for-5 three-point shot) with 5 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals and 2 blocks,...' Change to 'After his performance, in which he scored 21 points while making 7 of 8 shots and 4 of 5 three-point shots, in addition to recording 5 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals and 2 blocks,...'
  • 'This gave Michigan the first 19–1 record in school history.' Change 'record' to 'start'.
  • Remove 'For the week'.
  • 'Becoming the first team in the country to 20 wins' Add 'reach' before 'wins'.
  • Unlink 'half-court'.
  • Remove the 'On February 12' part of 'On February 12, Burke's 18 points, 4 assists and 3 steals were one of Michigan's few bright spots'.
  • I would suggest using a different term than 'relegated' in the bit about Kentucky, due to the term's general usage in reference to the promotion and relegation system.
  • 'As a number four seed, Michigan opened the tournament by defeating South Dakota State 71–56,[166] giving the team its most wins in 20 years and matching Beilein's career high.[167]' How many wins was this?
  • Change 'margin' to 'score'.
Statistics

*In all instances of numbers in the thousands, use commas.

*Change the first sentence to 'Statistics come from the team's website'.

Watchlists and awards

*Nothing really bad here, but it would be nice if you would vary up phrasings a bit. It seems like every other sentence begins with 'On [x date]'.

2013 NBA Draft

*Big problem with this section is it is written in present-tense. Since these events already happened, the text needs to be in past-tense.

  • 'On that same date, ESPN's Jason King predicted that if all four players left the 2013–14 team would begin the season unranked, based on the expectation that Michigan could lose four players to the NBA draft.' The last bit is unneeded since it just repeats everything before the comma.
  • 'Also on April 9, USA Today projected that if one of the four possible 2013 NBA draft entrants returned, Michigan could be ranked 24th, but that if they all returned, Michigan would be preseason #1.' Remove the 'also'. Change 'but' to 'and'; replace the '#1' with 'number one'.
  • Same issue with the 'on [x]' sentences. Vary it up a little bit.
  • 'Borderline' is spelled incorrectly.
  • Change 'Burke became the first top 10 Wolverine selection since Jamal Crawford in the 2000 NBA Draft. Hardaway joined his father (14th in 1989 NBA Draft) as a first round selection.[247][248] Burke joined Victor Oladipo (2nd) and Cody Zeller (4th) to give the Big Ten its first top ten trio since the 1990 NBA Draft.' to something like 'Burke became the first top 10 Wolverine selection since Jamal Crawford in the 2000 NBA Draft, and he joined Victor Oladipo (2nd) and Cody Zeller (4th) to give the Big Ten its first top ten trio since the 1990 NBA Draft. Hardaway joined his father, who was picked 14th in 1989 NBA Draft, as a first round selection.[247][248]
  • The draft stuff is already explained in text, so a separate table is not really needed.
Postseason roster changes

*'On May 8, 2013, the school's final required disassociation with players implicated in the University of Michigan basketball scandal ended.' Very awkward to read. Change to something like 'The team's required 10-year dissociation with players implicated in the University of Michigan basketball scandal ended on May 8, 2013'.

Great job on the fixes - I'll go ahead and give tentative support, since there hasn't been a full source check yet. Toa Nidhiki05 23:07, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Review by MarshalN20[edit]

Leaning Support: The article looks great, and it was a fun read. However, I find the amount of images in certain sections quite overwhelming. Some are repetitive and others lack action. To be more specific:

With regards to the sources, I think all of them are appropriately used along with their level of reliability. For instance, source 255 caught my attention, but I think it is acceptable since it is citing an uncontroversial (and related) subject. My only suggestion here, and this is something that might sound bothersome, is to change the number dates into words (instead of 2012-11-21, write 21 November 2012). I have found this to make source management and checking much easier, and also would help readers be less confused (sad it may sound, readers do get confused with the month-date order).


Regards.--MarshalN20 | Talk 19:17, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, moving the image from the bottom to the Roster section would look much better.
I switched the image positions.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:17, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Changing vote to full Support.
Great work.--MarshalN20 | Talk 03:03, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from SkotyWATC 04:49, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Skotywa review comments
  • "the team matched the greatest starts in school history" should either be "the greatest start" or "one of the greatest starts" shouldn't it?
    • The subsequent four sentences discuss the starts of the 1988–89 team, 1985–86 team, and 1992–93 team. This team matched all those starts.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:35, 12 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Ah, okay. That makes sense. I must not have been patient enough with my reading before I made this comment. --SkotyWATC 16:17, 13 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Reaching 11–0..." maybe could be worded better as "Starting the season with 11 consecutive wins..." and would reduce the repetitiveness of the schedule milestones discussed in later sentences.
  • "Tim Hardaway, Jr. was named to the All-Big Ten 1st team by the coaches and to the 2nd team by the media; Robinson was named an honorable mention All-Big Ten by the media and Morgan was an All-Big Ten Defensive team selection." Is the semicolon usage here correct? I would have thought a comma instead of a semicolon, and another comma before "and Morgan" is the right way to do it. I'm not an expert in semicolon punctuation though.
    • IIRC, you can conjoin independent phrases with either a semicolon or with a comma and a conjunction. The Hardaway, Robinson and Morgan phrases are each independent. Comma added.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:46, 12 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • First it says this: "At 16–0, Michigan matched their best start since" and then later it says this: "Burke (9th) and Hardaway (24th) gave Michigan its first pair of first round NBA draft choices". I think either "its" or "their" is fine for "Michigan", just be consistent on which one you use throughout the article.
    • Michigan is singular. The 2012-13 team or just the team is singular. The Wolverines is plural. All changes should be consistent with that. I have been through this issue elsewhere on WP.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:51, 12 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first line of text in the "Preseason roster changes" appears to be an uncredited, unsourced quote.
  • "the team lost three players who decided to transfer: Evan Smotrycz, Carlton Brundidge and Colton Christian decided to leave the program." Here, "decided to leave the program" seems redundant.
  • "As of December 30, 2011, McGary, Robinson and Stauskas ranked 3, 34, and 79 in the Rivals.com Class of 2012 Top 150, respectively" maybe this is just personal preference, but it seems like the "respectively" would make more sense right after the 79.
  • "Albrecht led Northfield Mount Hermon School to the 2012 NEPSAC Class AAA Boys' Basketball Tournament, defeating McGary's Brewster in the semifinals." I had to do a double take on "McGary's Brewster" trying to figure out what it was talking about. The table next to the paragraph clears it up, but it might be worth using the full school name, Brewster Acadamy, here since it's the first mention in the prose. Wikilink would probably be appropriate here as well for the same reason.
  • "After most of the big signings announced their decisions on the April 11 signing day" I'm confused by this statement since so many other dates are mentioned in the paragraphs above. Did they just "commit" on those dates but not "sign" until April 11th?
    • College basketball recruiting is sort of complicated. Players are often identified before they become a teenager and start getting physical mails, emails, and texts from schools. At certain times of year certain types of communications are allowed. Over time these times of year change. At some point as players reciprocate interest in schools, a school will make an official offer. They probably have to record official offer dates with the NCAA or at least keep official records to document the propriety of their communications (Offer date is often the first important date in a relationship). As players gather official offers, they also scout out schools by taking official and unofficial visits to schools. There are specific types of activities that are allowed for official visits and others that are allowed for unofficial visits. Players are allowed official visits to up to 5 schools. I have never read the rules, but I believe schools are allowed to provide round trip transportation, lodging and special events tickets. Oftentimes player will attend to during a home football game weekend or come during Midnight Madness weekend (Official visit dates are important). Coaching staffs are also allowed to make an official visit to the players home where his mother will often prepare a homecooked meal. For a lot of players, the relationship between the coaching staff and his parent is an important factor (home visit dates are important date and may come before an official visit). At some point after the players have visited campuses and coaches have visited their homes, players will often make an announcement of which school they have chosen. For blue chip players, there is often either a press conference held at his school or a media announcement (e.g., a live announcement on ESPN). These announcement are called verbal commitments. Jabari Parker's article has three pictures of his verbal commitment press conference that I attended. Once you make a commitment, other schools are limited on the types of communications and interactions that they are allowed to have with you. A player has to officially decommit in order to change schools. Then at some later date you officially sign a National Letter of Intent. Once you have signed a letter of intent you are commited to that school for the next year unless the coach leaves the school before the season starts (signing day is the last important date). Signing is only allowed during certain parts of the year. I think there are two signing periods a year for basketball. The first day of each period is called a Signing day because it is when most signings happen. I think you have to sit out a year if you want to change schools after signing a letter of intent. I think most of the dates in this article are commit dates and signing dates. Lots of bios have the three earlier dates too.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:03, 12 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thank you for the explanation. Do you think that there should be any more clarification in the article prose about this, or is it reasonable to expect the reader to have some understanding of this? Obviously I didn't, but I'm not that familiar with college basketball. --SkotyWATC 16:17, 13 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        • NLI has an article. It is pretty much like signing a contract and a verbal commitment is an official promise. I don't know how much confusion there is between making a promise and signing a contract, but since one of them is linkable, I hope the confusion is not too great.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:42, 13 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Iowa State signee Monte Morris" I would say only leave Monte Morris a red link if you actually think an article will be created for him.

Sorry that I've only had time to review through the "Roster" section so far. If I have time later, I'll continue reviewing. Let me know when you've addressed my concerns and I'll come back and strike them. --SkotyWATC 17:37, 12 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've struck my comments which have all been addressed. I had one follow up comment/thought on the recruiting paragraph, but I'll leave it up to TonyTheTiger to decide if anything should be added/changed since this article is well outside my areas of familiarity. I hope to have some time this afternoon or early this week to continue reviewing the rest of the article. --SkotyWATC 16:17, 13 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm finally back to finish my review of this article. Sorry for the delay. Too many things going on right now in my life. Anyway...

  • In the roster table LaVall Jordan is a red wikilink. This is fine if you expect an article about him to be created in the near future. Otherwise, please remove the link (as you've already done with many of the players listed).
  • Since this is a season that's pretty far in the past at this point, why does the legend need an "injured" symbol?
    • I wouldn't know how to remove it, but it is conceivable that someone could be injured for the whole season and in that case the symbol might have relevance, I guess.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:16, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Fair enough. I guess that means it's part of the template. Not a huge deal. --SkotyWATC 23:46, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there anything we can wikilink "on campus media day" to? Same for "Big Ten Conference Basketball Media Day". I don't know what that is (again, I'm not too familiar with the procedures/customs of NCAA basketball).
    • Media day is a special type of press conference for athletic teams where instead of fielding questions after an athletic event, they have a special day devoted to just answering media questions. It is common for sports teams and sports leagues to have media days. Some important events such as the Super Bowl have media days too. I linked press conference.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:27, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have just added a section to press conference about media day.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:09, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe "exhibition game" should be wikilinked?
  • As above, "Eamonn Brennan" should not be wikilinked unless an article covering him(?) is expected to be created.
  • "assistant coach LaVall Jordan and director of basketball operations Travis Conlan guided to the team to develop the slogan" grammar issue here.
  • Minor... "students in the Izzone at the Breslin Center sported t-shirts with "YOU OFF" printed in Spartan colors" using the word "sported" here feels a little less than encyclopedic. Maybe "wore" instead?
  • "On represented each player's individual commitment to season-long improvement." I think "On" should be fully capitalized here as "WE" was in the sentence prior.
  • Minor... "U-M Fuse Box (mock-University of Michigan set of switches)" I'm thinking the parenthetical statement may be better outside the quotes.
  • "hearkening remembrance of the incoming freshman class of 1991 that led Michigan to back-to-back Championship games while starting the majority of games that was known as the Fab Five" I'd suggest rewording this to "hearkening remembrance of the incoming freshman class of 1991, known as the Fab Five, that led Michigan to..."
  • The next two sentences after that start with the word "However" which feels redundant. Please reword one of them.
  • "a little version of the flag were added next to it" should be "was" instead of "were" I think
  • Minor... "Hardaway began the season" I'd recommend using the players first and last name at the beginning of the major section.
    • I am taking this as a suggestion and declining it. Between captions, tables and prose, he has already been mentioned at least 4 times in the article (at least three of them linked). The reader should remember who he is. This goes against WP:LASTNAME.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:04, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yup, totally fine. Some of these are probably just my preferences creeping out rather than "must fix" type things. This is definitely one of them. I have no problems with this staying as-is. --SkotyWATC 23:46, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Minor... "91–54 victory for Michigan" maybe should be "91–54 Michigan victory"
  • "Then, the team defeated its first ranked opponent of the season" pretty sure there shouldn't be a comma here
  • "Mitch McGary earned Big Ten Freshman of the Week" this reads funny. I'd either add the word "honors" to the end or change "earned" to "was recognized as"
    • changed (although I don't really understand the concern).--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:12, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • If you were to read this literally (as someone who's not familiar with the subject matter might), it almost sounds like he earned a "freshman" as a prize. Thanks for making the change. --SkotyWATC 00:26, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and earned his third Big Ten Freshman of the Week on December 31" same thing here. Maybe add "award" before "on December 31".
  • "in a January 6 95–67 victory against Iowa" this just looks weird without any commas. Not sure where the commas should be added, but it seems like none is wrong. Alternatively, it might be better to reword it like this: "in a 95-67 victory against Iowa on January 6th."
  • "On January 7, Burke earned Big Ten Conference Player of the Week and Robinson earned Conference Freshman of the Week" as above. I recommend changing "earned" to "was recognized as" in both cases.
  • "for a pair of 12-point performances on 71.4% shooting in which he averaged 8 rebounds" this reads very clunky. Specifically the "on 71.4% shooting" needs to be reworded I think.
  • "Michigan led by 5 with 52 seconds to go, but missed three free throws in the final 52 seconds, including the front end of two one-and-ones." There are a couple of problems with this sentence. "52 seconds" is unnecessarily repeated, and "the front end of two one-and-ones" feels a little slangy. The latter would also benefit from a wikilink.
    • I have tried to formalize the tone, but I don't know a link to use. Bonus (basketball) is somewhat relevant, but I am not sure how even that could be used properly in this situation.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:40, 27 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • I think that's exactly the wikilink to use here. I've added it myself (I went slightly more specific with Bonus_(basketball)#NCAA which actually mentions the term "one-and-one"). Please fix if you don't like how I've done it. --SkotyWATC 00:26, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "all pegged as likely NBA Draft choices" feels a little slangy again. Maybe replace "pegged as" with "expected to be".
  • "clean all-ball block" needs a comma between the two adjectives
  • There seems to be an errant column in your players of the week table. If the blank column is on purpose (maybe it's supposed to be a divider?), I'd recommend replacing the apostrophe with " ".
  • "the NABC on March 28" this appears to be the first appearance of NABC in the article. What is the full name? Also add a wikilink (if possible).
  • the term "All-conference" appears 3 times in the article, twice with that capitalization and once like this: "all-Conference". I would have thought both the "A" and "C" need to be capitalized, but I'm not sure. Either way, all 3 should be consistent.

Okay, I'm done with my review. That's all I found. I look forward to returning and striking my comments/concerns/suggestions and voicing my support. Again, sorry for the delay with my review. --SkotyWATC 22:56, 26 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Okay, all is well with my review comments. I am happy to support this article's promotion to WP:FA. --SkotyWATC 00:26, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Image check - all OK (own work, Flickr CC, PD-ineligible).

  • Support Comments thanks to this.
  • "The team lost graduating senior captains Zack Novak and Stu Douglass, who moved on to professional basketball careers in Europe. " when? I'd say something like "Following the 2011-12 season, the team lost...".
  • "The team made its first Sweet Sixteen appearance since the 1993–94 team did so in the 1994 Tournament." just mentions "1994 once here IMO

YE Pacific Hurricane 03:05, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • "After several other schools announced their commitments, the signing of McGary moved Michigan from outside the top 25 to the number 7 class in the nation, according to ESPN.[17][18]" I thought you said it was #5? YE Pacific Hurricane 03:05, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "All three recruits had playoff success: McGary was a member of the National Prep Championship team" at which school? YE Pacific Hurricane 03:05, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Hardaway began the season with a double-double by scoring 25 points (including 5-for-5 three-point shooting) and adding 10 rebounds in a 100–62 win over Slippery Rock.[77] His fourth career double-double earned him his second career Big Ten Player of the Week award.[78] " mind combining these two sentences? YE Pacific Hurricane 03:05, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Morgan only played two minutes behind replacement starter Horford.[143][145]" signficance? that's like saying I played 3 mins in a game in 3rd grade. YE Pacific Hurricane 03:05, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • He was injured and not fully recovered. He was still unable to play prolonged minutes. Later in the paragraph the coach talks about how "Morgan's absence affected the team's ability to match up defensively and substitute as it desired". read the rest of the paragraph.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:27, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • What did Morgan injuire? his knee? ankle? shoulder? finger? YE Pacific Hurricane 03:05, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Michigan lost to Wisconsin on February 9 in overtime following a half-court buzzer beater by Wisconsin that tied the game in regulation time.[148] " cut the last instance of "time" YE Pacific Hurricane 03:05, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • " one-and-one situations" pipe problems? YE Pacific Hurricane 03:05, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Sweet Sixteen" The section includes the elitle eight though, so why is the section called the way it is. YE Pacific Hurricane 03:05, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "On that same date, ESPN's Jason King predicted that if all four players had left for the NBA draft, the 2013–14 team would have begun the season unranked.[250] USA Today projected on April 9 that if one of the four possible 2013 NBA draft entrants returned, Michigan could have been ranked 24th, and that if they all returned, Michigan would have been preseason number one.[251] " relevance to 2012-13? YE Pacific Hurricane 03:06, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • This is content about transition to the following season. No effect on 2012-13 on the court, but issues up to the NBA draft are relevant in some sense.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:01, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In all, very good job. YE Pacific Hurricane 03:06, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

El Cid Ruderico's review[edit]

  • Support. I've finally had a chance to do some kind of review as you asked me, TonyTheTiger. I'm liking what I see so far. Content-wise, the body is a data and prose goldmine. All in all, excellent coverage. However, after doing a ref check, I mined a bit of the following pyrite. Indeed, I decided I would do a reference check. Yes, all 270. For now, I am up to 58, including a few extra in between those two numbers. That covers through the "Preseason" section.
  • Reference check, 1–58. 28 October 2013

I will continue to do what I can, to shoot around for 50 or so per day in the coming days. Elcid.ruderico (talk) 01:01, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Reference check, 29 October 2013. New 20 & 21, and 61–120. Now the total is up to 272, per the two Tony the Tiger added yesterday/earlier today.
    • Stauskas' hot shooting: [in Slogans, nicknames and emblems -> Canadian flag]: I would mention how you qualified this to beef it up, such as that he was shooting 53.7% on threes through U-M's first 15 games.
    • Refs 99 & 100 are duplicates.
    • Single-digit integers in prose: [Schedule, Regular season -> December] "For averaging 23.0 points, 6.5 assists, 4.5 rebounds and 2.0 steals with only 1 turnover in the games against Binghamton and West Virginia, Burke earned Player of the Week on December 17." "1" should probably be spelled out as "one," since numbers zero through nine are generally done so.
      • In this sentence, numbers are used to be consistent. I should probably change the turnover to 1.0 for consistency.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:09, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        • 1.0 works better. The way I read it was that it was 1 total turnover in two games. --Elcid.ruderico (talk) 01:23, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • I have tried to use numerals for all statistics throughout for consistency and spell out ordinals throughout for consistency. Yes many of the statistics are single digits, but a sometimes they are double digits or a mix of single and double digits in the same sentence. If you want me to go back through and change all single digits to prose, I could do that, but I am not sure it is any better in this case.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:29, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        • No need to haggle. If it is not an issue in FAC, then don't worry about it. --Elcid.ruderico (talk) 01:23, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • That part about Michigan State students wearing the "YOU OFF" t-shirts was a humorous aside. Strong work through this leg of my eval. --Elcid.ruderico (talk) 00:40, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reference check, 3 November 2013. Ref #s 122–173.
    • January 3 game vs. Northwestern: I would mention Michigan actually had five players in double-figure points following Burke and Hardaway's totals – since theirs led team – rather than only mentioning Robinson had 10.
    • Ref 134. I'm failing to see the support for the text "first time Michigan defeated a top-10 team on the road since a December 6, 1996, victory by the 1996–97 team over Duke."
    • Ref 144 appears twice in the same sentence.
    • [Regular season-> February]: "However, playing lots of minutes in Morgan's absence, McGary earned his second Big Ten Freshman of the Week honor on February 11." "lots of" is a phrase that doesn't belong in a FA. I would replace with something to the effect of "dramatically increased play."
    • Ref 157 does not fully support the claim that "Burke's 18 points, 4 assists and 3 steals were one of Michigan's few bright spots in their February 12 contest," but ref 156 does.
      • The stats are fully supported in several places in 157 and "Burke scored 18 points for the Wolverines and didn't get much help from his teammate offensively, or defensively." supports the rest.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:22, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ref 162: "As a result of his efforts, Burke won his third player of the week award on February 18." May want to specify of the season – ref 162 also states that it was the fourth of his career.
    • Typo: Regular season-> March: "On March 6, with its Big 10 Conference Championship destiny in its own hands, Michigan defeated Purdue to set up a championship showdown with Indiana on March 9." The date for the championship game with Indiana is wrong. Two sentences later, the date is entered as March 10, and are supported as such by the references.

Other than those slips, the narrative is great. Although I never watched a single moment of Michigan basketball from this season, I get the idea I could easily remember the best plays from a strong season. Down to about 140 more refs (another 41 in the games results table). --Elcid.ruderico (talk) 01:23, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Reference check, 4 November 2013. Ref #s 176–206, plus all games within the Results table.

Now, only 207–275 to go. --Elcid.ruderico (talk) 07:40, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Reference check, 5 November 2013. Ref #s 208–237.
    • Rankings: Your final rankings appear wrong or was left unfinished. USA Today coaches' #9, AP #2, per this. Yours, currently: USA Today coaches' #2, AP "not released."
      • The source that you present above (ESPN), which is the citation for the table, seems to only document the rankings through the first week of the postseason (week 19). The USAT/Coaches also produces a rankings after the tournaments are all completed. The table is correct. I just need to add a source for the postseason ranking by the USAT/Coaches.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:31, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ref 220: Every time I bring this page up, it gets stuck and doesn't get "there."

Almost there – should be able to get it wrapped up tomorrow.

  • Reference check, 7 November 2013. Ref #s 238–276.
    • [2013 NBA Draft]: Forbes should be italicized (publications).
      • Found the correction. Everything I've asked is done or resolved. --Elcid.ruderico (talk) 21:19, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just that one. Ref check done. Everything looks great! Here's hoping your article passes. --Elcid.ruderico (talk) 09:43, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Notes by Ian Rose[edit]

  • Lot of dup links, some of which may be justified by the space between in an article of this size, but pls use the checker and see what you can lose.
  • Inconsistency in number representations, e.g. just in lead: "forty-sixth consecutive year" vs. "20 seasons". Pls check throughout; I have no personal preference as long as MOS is broadly followed and the method is consistent within the article. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:39, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Your comment came just after I went through the article and tried to consistently spell out the ordinals and use numerals for stats (after being prompted in the section above). What do you suggest?--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:07, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • I understand that with the plethora of numbers in such an article you want to distinguish certain uses, but for someone who's not particularly into sports statistics, the method doesn't appear that consistent. Obviously numerals should be employed for scores, averages and, I suppose, wins, but when you see "forty-sixth consecutive year" vs. "20 seasons" it starts to look odd to me. Later on in the lead we say "1st team by the coaches and to the 2nd team by the media" but then "first team consensus". I get the concept of team rankings, and I think you could fairly use "1st" or "first" in this instance, but surely not both? Finally, not being into basketball, I have to wonder about the significance of "Burke (9th) and Hardaway (24th)" -- 9th and 24th what? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 21:52, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
        • I think I just checked from the schedule part of the article down. I will start from the beginning.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:28, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
          • I tried to spell all the ordinals consistently.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:26, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
            • Thanks, but you haven't addressed my query as to why we should be saying "forty-sixth" for consecutive years and "20" for seasons. Also in the lead, I still don't understand what "(9th)" and "(24th)" mean re. Burke and Hardaway -- are these odd representations of their player numbers or something else? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 21:35, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
              • I thought I had made it clear that I was spelling ordinal numbers and representing numerals for cardinal numbers which are mostly statistics in this article.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:09, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
              • I have added "selection" to 9th and 24th. I have rewritten this sentence for greater clarity.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:12, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
                • I don't think MOS makes a distinction between ordinals and cardinals in its guidelines for numbers larger than nine, Tony, but as long as there's a method to the madness, consistently applied, I won't spend any more time on it. Tks for clarifying the selection thing for us ignorant non-basketballers... Are you and El Cid about done? I'd like to wrap this up, as I'm sure we all would... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:05, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
                  • I've got just a few more refs (around 30) to verify that I'll most likely get to by the end of today and can then call this burrito a wrap. --Elcid.ruderico (talk) 16:24, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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