Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/2013 Atlantic hurricane season/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose (talk) 05:57, 19 July 2014 (diff).

2013 Atlantic hurricane season[edit]

Nominator(s): 12george1 (talk) 21:33, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about an interesting hurricane season. For the first time since 1994, there were no major hurricanes in the Atlantic. Further, this season had the fewest hurricane since 1982. Chantal was one of the fastest moving tropical cyclones in the deep tropics since the satellite era began. Hurricane Humberto almost became the latest first hurricane of the season since satellite monitoring started in the 1960s. Later in September, Hurricane Ingrid caused catastrophic flooding in Mexico with Hurricane Manuel in the Pacific. Tropical Storm Karen threatened the Gulf Coast during the U.S. government shutdown. Additionally, one tropical cyclone formed in November and another in December, which did not occur even in the 2012 season. I have worked a lot on this article so that it includes this information and much more; I also have attempted to make it consistent with FAC standards. Finally, this will be a WikiCup nomination.--12george1 (talk) 21:33, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. The following nominators are WikiCup participants: 12george1. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. UcuchaBot (talk) 00:01, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Image review - Images are okay. All are either from NASA directly or plots of courses by Wikipedians based on NASA maps. Sources are all indicated clearly. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:29, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Juliancolton[edit]

Comments – it's certainly rare to see the articles of very recent seasons in such good shape, but I do think there's room for improvement. Some suggestions:

  • A solid third of the intro discusses seasonal predictions, a relatively minor aspect of the season as a whole. Predictions for a past event are pretty unimportant in the grand scheme of things, and the whole paragraph is basically a list of dates and numbers. Since the lead aims to provide an accessible overview of the topic at hand, I would suggest trying to boil all the hard info down into a more digestible summary—something that says forecasts started out aggressive but were generally adjusted downward at halftime. Now, as for what the lead lacks: I'd like to see more emphasis on how the season inexplicably defied everybody's predictions and sent the long-range forecasting community into a frenzy. That's what the season is invariably remembered for in weather circles.
  • Are you asking for less predictions and more analysis on why the season defied every ones predictions?--12george1 (talk) 20:40, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Despite the revisions, activity remained far below predictions, at thirteen named storms, two hurricanes, and no major hurricanes. – 13 named storms is technically true, but I think you should figure out a way to account for the unnamed SS (especially since the infobox says 14 for total storms).
  • I don't see this discussed anywhere, but I think it's important to note that due to their bust, Gray and Klotzbach were defunded and nearly forced to end their seasonal forecasts.
  • I know this is a point of contention, but I believe the article suffers for having had the by-storm ACE table removed.
  • I am not going to take any action on this until there is an actual debate about this.--12george1 (talk) 18:08, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nine consecutive subsections start with "A tropical wave", which is a bit disconcerting. That said, after the first couple instances where you demonstrate that waves enter the Atlantic via Africa, I don't think you need to keep repeating the whole geographic spiel (eg. Karen, Lorenzo).
  • Fixed some of the "a tropical wave"'s, but not the geographical thing, as I am not understanding why that is it a problem or even how to fix them.--12george1 (talk) 18:08, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I guess it just seems tedious to have to read "A tropical wave emerged into the Atlantic Ocean from the west coast of Africa" at the beginning of a dozen subsections. After the first couple instances of easterly wave-induced genesis, everybody has been told where the waves come from and how they've come upon the Atlantic. An excellent seasonal page should present itself as a smoothly flowing article instead of simply a monotonous compilation of individual storms. In that regard I think the nominated article is a bit lacking. – Juliancolton | Talk 14:09, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • The 'Storm names' section starts with The following names will be used for named storms that form in the North Atlantic in 2013 (emphasis mine). Are you sure the entire article is up-to-date?

Additionally, the prose is a bit rough in places. I'm not sure it's worth posting a laundry list of specific tasks, so after you've addressed the above comments I'll see what I can do in terms of copyediting. – Juliancolton | Talk 02:42, 9 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Update
  • Five tornadoes were spawned in the area, one of which damaged three homes. - the misplaced modifier here is enough to cause disruption in the flow of the text. There are several instances of the same problem throughout the article; I'll list a couple of the more prominent ones.
  • where heavy rainfall triggered flooding that damaged 60 homes and affected 300 people. - does this mean the 60 damaged buildings were collectively home to 300 people?
  • I think I am just going to remove "and affected 300 people" because I don't understand what that means either.--12george1 (talk) 19:01, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • In El Salvador, flooding caused one fatality, while another occurred after a person was struck by lightning. - needlessly cumbersome. "In El Salvador, flooding and lightning caused one fatality each." ?
  • A large-amplitude tropical wave emerged into the Atlantic Ocean from the west coast of Africa on July 4. - "large-amplitude" is quite technical (and unoriginal, seeing as it's repeated verbatim from the TCR). Surely there's a more commonly understood description to use.
  • Removing "-amplitude", since the sentence basically means that same thing without it.--12george1 (talk) 19:36, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the Dominican Republic, there was one direct death when a firefighter from the community of Maimon was killed as he was swept away by flood waters when he tried to clear a drain. - quite a mouthful.
  • I removed the "there was one direct death when" because there is no need to mention a death twice.--12george1 (talk) 19:01, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • The remnants of Chantal combined with a surface front, producing locally heavy rainfall and gusty winds over northeastern Florida. - I think Chantal is given too much credit here. The source suggests high PWATs from the system aided in the diurnal convective initiation along the frontal boundary. I wouldn't aim for excessive detail, but I do think Chantal's role in the FL weather can be more accurately explained.
  • A tropical wave, accompanied by an elongated area of low pressure - a tropical wave is an elongated area of low pressure. The same issue is also present in the sections for Dorian and Gabrielle. I know their respective TCRs use the same wording, but it's still confusing to the casual reader who only vaguely knows the definition of a tropical wave.
  • Three days later, another tropical wave, which spawned Tropical Storm Erin, also emerged into the Atlantic. - just clunky.
  • Classes in the state were closed during the storm's passage. - at what sorts of institutions?
  • Apparently it was at "all educational levels."--12george1 (talk) 19:01, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would try to incorporate that into the article, then. – Juliancolton | Talk 21:29, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • In Oaxaca, another fatality took place after a man was swept away by a swollen river. - overly verbose. In general I think you should avoid the "a fatality took place/occurred after x" syntax.
  • Upon crossing the Lesser Antilles and entering the Caribbean Sea, another tropical wave enhanced deep convection. - clunky writing, and also not entirely supported by the source; the TCR simply states that an increase in convection occurred sometime after the second wave reached the nascent cyclone.
  • Is post-analysis intended/conventional?
  • Gabrielle brought rainfall to Puerto Rico totaling between 6 to 8 in (150 to 200 mm) in some areas, during a 48 hour period. - this sentence needs a total revamp; unnecessary comma, misplaced modifier, and it wasn't called Gabrielle yet.
  • Additionally, several trees were downed near a police station. - seems a bit irrelevant to mention the police station if it was not damaged.
  • The remnants of the depression were monitored for the potential for regeneration. - this sentence reminded me a bit of this song, which is never a good thing in academic prose. :) "The remnant system was monitored for regeneration." ?
  • Fixed the hole in the bottom of the sea :P --12george1 (talk) 19:01, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong winds on the island downed trees branches caused minor infrastructural damage, and left minor power outages. - not sure how this was supposed to be formatted, but... it wasn't done properly.
  • I think there was supposed to be a comma between "branches" and "caused".--12george1 (talk) 19:01, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overall the Gabrielle summary seems a bit drawn-out. I wouldn't mind if the last three sentences were combined into something more digestible: "After marked oscillations in intensity on September 12, Gabrielle finally succumbed to wind shear while located midway between Bermuda and Cape Cod." ?
  • I don't mind either. :P Ever since I started working on this article, I kept trying and trying to shrink the size of Gabrielle's section.--12george1 (talk) 19:05, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yeah, I know what you mean. At some point you have to step back from a storm and say "wow, nobody's ever gonna care about this!" ;) – Juliancolton | Talk 21:29, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • The eight tropical depression of the season - I've noticed more typos than I believe I should for an FAC article. I've fixed a couple, and normally I would continue doing so, but seeing as I missed several the first time around, and other reviewers have apparently also missed them, I can't trust that I've spotted them all. At this point I think you need to buckle down and do some good old-fashioned proofreading.
  • "Thereafter" starts five sentences throughout the article; not sure it's suitable for any of them.
  • Heavy rains across Tamaulipas and Veracruz triggered flooding in areas that were affected by Tropical Storm Fernand just two weeks prior. Many areas were under water once again. - you've gone from on-point professional writing to hyperbolic newscaster-speak over the course of a full stop. Isn't the second sentence entirely redundant to the first in any event?
  • Humberto continued to strengthen while passing south of Cape Verde, due to [...] moderate wind shear - I don't think it's fair to say the strengthening was attributable to the moderate wind shear; rather, it was not inhibited by it.
  • The storm brought periodic squalls to Cape Verde. - squalls by their nature are intermittent. Feel this could be presented better.
  • I think I should removed "periodic", because if squalls are intermittent like you say, than "periodic squalls" is an oxymoron.--12george1 (talk) 19:05, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rotterdam later reached São Tomé and Príncipe, though that country's port institute and coast guard denied the freighter' presence. - typo (I'll start listing them here instead of fixing them myself, to give you an idea of what to look for), and is Rotterdam the name of the freighter that went missing? Not immediately apparent.
  • Later on September 10, deepening briefly halted as the storm curved northwest in response to a developing mid-level trough. - useless to mention the steering mechanism without relating it geographically.
  • The storm decelerated late on September 16 and early on September 17 in response to a mid- to upper-level cyclone. - again, "in response" is vague and offers no real information. What about the cyclone aloft caused Humberto to slow?
  • Not really. What changed? You just reshuffled the line. – Juliancolton | Talk 21:29, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • For Humberto you mention the driving force behind every change in intensity and track; Ingrid appears to have had a mind of its own. Why isn't there more consistency in the level of meteorological detail?
  • The two storms produced 5,700 cu ft (160 m3) of water through heavy rainfall, the equivalent of filling every dam in Mexico. - How does one fill a dam? Surely you would fill the reservoir held back by said instead? Also, 160 cubic meters of rain from two hurricanes seems blatantly wrong to me. A brief look at the source (translated via Google, mind) seems to suggest the volume was more on the order of 160 billion cubic meters (more like it!). As this entire sentence seems to be based on mistranslated info, I'm really uneasy about trusting the rest of the text concerning non-US countries. You really need a fluent Spanish speaker to verify that your translations are accurate.
  • Eh... "the reservoir of every dam" is just weird. I'm almost certain the intended meaning is "every reservoir", but I'm only going by Google translate (as I assume are you). Also, where did you get that new figure of 29,988,109.7 cubic meters? I still get 162 billion cubic meters. When you've settled on a figure, round it off... nobody can calculate continental-scale rainfall to the tenth of a cubic meter. – Juliancolton | Talk 21:29, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Based on scatterometer wind data, the northern portion moved north-northwestward and transitioned into a low pressure area early on September 28. - "As evidenced by scatterometer..." ?
  • a blocking high pressure ridge caused the storm to drift northward, before curving northeastward the following day - poorly worded; the high didn't cause the storm to drift northward, it barely allowed it to drift. Come to think of it, did it really move north at all? The source and track map don't seem to think so.
  • A bit. I think the sentence doesn't quite make it clear whether you're referring to the ridge or the storm, though. – Juliancolton | Talk 21:29, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'll stop there. The article is rife with misinformation, poor grammar, dubious Spanish-to-English translations, incomplete meteorological descriptions, and cross-section inconsistencies. The above bullets do not represent an exhaustive list of the issues. A day's worth of hard work could theoretically bring the article where it needs to be, but as it stands I wouldn't even promote it to GA status. On these grounds I must regrettably, but firmly, oppose. Sorry. Instead of just addressing the above points, I would suggest taking the time to go through the article and ensure that it's really among our best work. – Juliancolton | Talk 15:13, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

More

Some more specific comments:

  • Around then, the wave encountered an upper-level trough, increasing deep convection and spawning a broad trough of low pressure on September 28. - likely confusing to the layperson, especially since said "broad" trough is probably far less broad than the upper trough.
  • Karen was one of few named storms, such as Hurricane Alberto in 1982, during the reconnaissance era to dissipate in the Gulf of Mexico without making landfall. - needs a massage.
  • Let me remove Alberto 1982. The last system was actually Edouard 84, but I can't find a citation for that.--12george1 (talk) 22:22, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • While the storm was threatening the Gulf Coast of the United States, the NHC issues several tropical cyclone warnings and watches as Karen approached. - typo.
  • residents were also ordered to flee Lafourche and Plaquemines. - why not "Parishes"?
  • I didn't want to make the article too religious :P --12george1 (talk) 22:22, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Only some of the US state names are linked in the Karen section, with no apparent rhyme or reason.
  • I didn't think this was supposed to be a rap :P In all seriousness, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, and New Jersey were wikilinked in previous sections. Texas was mentioned in Ingrid, but I forgot to wikilink it, so I will do that now.--12george1 (talk) 22:22, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Additionally, the moisture associated with the remnants of Karen was absorbed into a frontal system and caused minor flooding in a few states - I'm going to assume the frontal system caused the flooding, perhaps marginally enhanced by Karen's moisture.
  • I feel the Lorenzo section is a bit lopsided. The summary of its life as a TC seems overly detailed (and for a storm as uninteresting as Lorenzo, that means the prose becomes monotonous. "Shear... convection... weakened... trough... trough... degenerated... trough... convection", you get the idea. However, my initial impression is that the storm played a significant role in the genesis of the European storm, so I would very much like to see a couple sentences of info on the impacts thereof.
  • Early on November 17, an extratropical low developed along a stationary front. - where? Kind of weird to start a storm summary off without some idea of location.
  • However, a midst colder ocean temperatures - typo.
  • The remnants merged with another weather system several hours later. - if we haven't established the article is about the weather by now, we might be in trouble!
  • it executed a cyclonic loop to the south. - what does this mean?
  • I count over a dozen usages of "degenerated"/"degenerating", sometimes two or three in the same section. Look for synonyms (diminish, deteriorate, dissipate, dwindle).
  • The circulation became exposed from the convection, before all thunderstorms decreased. - an example of cumbersome wording that should be presented more smoothly. "The circulation became distanced from thunderstorm activity, which soon dissipated entirely." ?

I've reached the bottom of the article, but even if you alleviate these specific concerns, I'm afraid the article will still need quite a bit of work. You addressed my above list of comments very efficiently, and I appreciate that, but in this case I think you'd do well to actually spend some time to read the article yourself and verify the sources. I get the feeling much of the content has been taken from the individual storm articles, and that's fine; it's standard practice. However, that means you have to be super extra careful to check the info. A couple more examples:

  • Trees were knocked onto roads and power lines, leaving about 33,000 people without electricity. - Google translate suggests 33,000 homes were without power, not 33,000 people. As I don't speak French, I can't verify this... but it's important that somebody does so.
  • Apparently "foyers" means "homes" in English. Fixed.--12george1 (talk) 22:22, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Members of the Mexican Navy helped evacuate 4,000 people from their homes in the state of Veracruz. - I'm not sure I totally agree that the source confirms this. It seems to say the Navy, among other branches of the military, helped people evacuate, and that 4,000 people evacuated in total. It might be a bit of a leap to assume the Navy therefore helped 4,000 people evacuate.
  • An estimated 20,000 people were affected by the floods and officials opened four shelters in the area. - the source seems to say 20,000 homes were damaged. Again, I could be completely off the mark here, but Google translate combined with my rudimentary knowledge of Spanish tell me the translations might continue to be a bit off throughout the article. – Juliancolton | Talk 21:29, 24 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed my "oppose" and struck my comments (as well as corresponding signatures for ease of reading) that have been addressed. It's getting closer, and like I promised early on, I'll jump in and do a bit of editing myself. In the meantime, I do still have some unresolved content-related concerns above. – Juliancolton | Talk 15:23, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

12george1, any progress? I said I'd be willing to help, but I'm afraid time might not be on our side here. – Juliancolton | Talk 15:43, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Update
  • Support Well, I've done some editing, and I feel the article is finally up to par. It's almost certainly the most thorough single account of the season available on the internet, and while there might still be a few rough patches in the writing, I'm confident the article will continue to be polished after its promotion to FA. Nice work George, and thanks for working with me to alleviate my concerns. – Juliancolton | Talk 13:59, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Hurricanehink[edit]

Support now. Hurricanehink mobile (talk) 17:43, 17 July 2014 (UTC) Given that I also have a hurricane FAC up right now, I figured I should comment.[reply]

  • When you mention "Category 2 intensity" - you should mention SSHS
  • "The season began on June 1 and ended on November 30" - I'd add "officially" somewhere in here, or add that NHC said that's what the season was, due to the December SS
  • Wait, it's not official until it's on Facebook :P--12george1 (talk) 17:40, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd link "subtropical storm" in the first paragraph of the lead, since it's not a common term
  • "Although 15 tropical cyclones developed, several were weak or remained at sea resulting in impact from the season being relatively minimal." - add a comma after "sea"
  • "Tropical Storm Andrea in early June killed four " - puppies? Dear god please don't let it be puppies.
  • "Particularly hit was Mexico" - did you mean to add "hard"?
  • When you mention Ingrid's impacts in the lead, I think you should add "in conjunction with Hurricane Manuel", since their impacts are kinda hard to distinguish.
  • I think the "pre-season forecasts" would be better organized if you mention differing factors that would make the season active or not, as compared to just a list of the forecasts and what they said. For example - "WSI noted the uncertainty in whether an El Niño would develop, while CSU did not anticipate such an event to occur." Or saying how many anticipated above normal temperatures. Similar, two of the agencies cited the increased activity since 1995 as a factor, so why not mention them together? Something like that would show the similar conditions between the agencies, as opposed to a big block of text. That way, you could also incorporate mid-season stuff, showing when the forecasts started going wrong. The whole section might need a rewrite, but I think it'd be better in the long run.
  • "fourteen named storms" - Melissa was the last named storm, which is the 13th letter of the alphabet. So....
  • "Despite the defied forecasts" - add comma
  • In the ACE section, are you including the subtropical storm? If so, you need a source to say subtropical is included. Also, "which was well below the 1981–2010 average of 92" - this isn't sourced.
  • "while initially heading north-northeastward, before recurving northeastward later that day" - I wouldn't say going from NNE to NE constitutes "recurving"
  • "A few hours later, the storm weakened slightly and made landfall near Steinhatchee, Florida later that day." - you have two generic references to time, which doesn't work IMO.
  • I assume you mean a reference to "later". Am I right?--12george1 (talk) 17:40, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "There were 10 tornadoes,[25] the worst of which touched down in The Acreage and downed power lines and trees, causing significant roof damage to several houses; there was also one injury." - eek, too long and jumbled
  • "One death occurred in South Carolina after a surfer went missing and was presumed to have drowned" - so it goes from death to missing to presumed drowned. Why not just say "a surfer went missing and was presumed to have drowned?"
  • Because that would just be too easy :P --12george1 (talk) 17:40, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "over-top" --> "overflow"?
  • "and a minimum barometric pressure of 993 mbar (29.3 inHg)" - that doesn't match Barry's infobox
  • "In El Salvador, flooding caused one fatality, while another occurred after a person was struck by lightning." - why not mention this when you mention the other Central America impact?
  • What is "A large-amplitude tropical wave"?
  • I think it's just a fancy way of saying "large"?--12george1 (talk) 17:40, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Overall, the storm caused one death and less than $10 million in damage." - I don't think you need to mention the one death again.
  • "Though the storm tracked swiftly west-northwest over warm ocean temperatures and within an environment of low wind shear initially, allowing it to attain peak winds of 60 mph (95 km/h) by July 25, the entrainment of drier mid-level air and cooler ocean waters caused a weakening trend to ensue." - a bit long
  • I think Durian's MH is a bit on the short side. You don't mention any of the TWO's that indicated it had a high potential for redevelopment north of Puerto Rico, for example.
  • "A tropical wave accompanied by an elongated area of low pressure and a large area of disorganized showers and thunderstorms, emerged off the west coast of Africa on August 15." - add comma after "wave"
  • Any impacts for Erin in the Cape Verde islands? Ditto for Gabrielle impact in Dominican Republic?
  • "The storm passed about 23 mi (37 km)" - that's awfully exact for "about"
  • "Offshore, a freighter with a crew of six went missing amid 10 to 16 ft (3 to 5 m) swells." - any further info on this?
  • "The two storms produced 5,700 cu ft (160 m3) of water, the equivalent of filling every dam in Mexico." - this could use some clarification. Maybe add "produced X of water through their heavy rainfall"?
  • "before curved northeastward the following day" - bad grammar
  • Andrea's damage total should be sourced in the season effects section
  • Any reason the damage totals are sourced but the deaths aren't?
  • What is the publisher for ref 53? Otherwise, sourcing looks good.

Overall, the article is in pretty good shape, just a little rough around the edges in some parts. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 04:25, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I did some copyediting on the lead; feel free to change anything you like. - Dank (push to talk) 18:20, 7 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Continuing.
  • "The season officially began on June 1 and ended on November 30, dates that conventionally delimit the period during each year when most tropical cyclones form in the Atlantic Ocean.": That was the second sentence in the lead ... since it's not directly about this hurricane season (other than the dates, which I kept), I thought it was wrong for the first paragraph and deleted it (but feel free to revert if you disagree). One question ... do sources really say that the season ended on November 30, but the last storm of the season lasted from December 5 to 7? I don't recall hearing the term "the season" including things that didn't happen during the season before. - Dank (push to talk) 00:29, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "TSR lowered its numbers due to predicted cooler-than-average sea surface temperatures and above-average sea surface temperatures.": ?
  • - Dank (push to talk) 03:27, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "enough to fill every reservoir in Mexico": They did fill, or they could have filled? - Dank (push to talk) 13:22, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "to the near and to the west": ?
  • "north-northward to northward": ?
  • "operationally": At first occurrence, it might make sense to insert a short phrase that translates "operationally". Then you can use the word at will later on.
  • I copyedited the article per my standard disclaimer. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 13:46, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I took care of most of that stuff on behalf of the nominator. As for the seasonal dates, it's well-documented that hurricane season runs June 1 to Nov 30 (mostly for bureaucratic purposes, though it's caught on with the general public as well). Since we know December 5 is after November 30, I'm not entirely sure I understand your concern there, but it may well be a case of over-familiarity with hurricane jargon on my/our end. Thanks for taking the time to go over the article. – Juliancolton | Talk 14:23, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • The changes addressed my questions, thanks. On the last point, "readability" can generally be tested. My hypothesis (not proven, and I don't have a cite other than dictionary definitions) is that most readers take "season" to mean "the span of time when the events happened" ... if so, it will at least slow them down to say that one of the events of the season happened outside the season, even if they do eventually get comfortable with it. I'm throwing it into the pile of things to test on random readers, when I get around to it. - Dank (push to talk) 14:54, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support A random check of five citations gives no close paraphrasing issues and states the information given, honestly have no other concerns. Secret account 00:40, 18 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Closing comment -- I removed several duplicate links, some of them only a few sentences apart. Pls check for yourself in future, using this script. N.B. I left the Veracruz dups in place as I know it's a city and a state and we probably don't need you saying "city of" and "state of" everywhere to clarify... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:56, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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