Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Belarusian Republican Youth Union

Belarusian Republican Youth Union[edit]

While I have been working on other articles, the BRSM article has had a grammr, spelling and link check. There could be some links that could be dead, so I will use the way-back machine to see if I can get those back to life. I also wonder that, for this short article, if the photos are an overkill or not. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 05:15, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Support. You are doing a great job, Z! You definitely deserve some Belarusian medal :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 03:59, 29 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Support and Comment- Lead needs to be expanded. AndyZ 22:39, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Expanded. Is there anything that I am missing? User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 00:12, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - Looks good- I'm used to seeing FAs with 2 paragraph leads per Wikipedia:Lead section, but since this article only contains about 11,000 characters, a 1 paragraph lead is sufficient. AndyZ 21:13, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    - I do admit that this is a short article, but there was little I can find about the organization, either due to my lack of knowledge with Russian or due to most of the websites I found are being critical of the BRSM. There are still some figures I am missing, such as membership data, so perhap if some folks who can read the BRSM website and find out these details for me, that will be very helpful. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 23:55, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      - What about "instill the group's moral values"? What moral values (especially since there is a lot about criticism of the group) were being instilled? AndyZ 19:45, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        Another note, in the lead it says that some of the activities were "camping, sporting events and visiting memorials". Since the lead should be an overview, these (and others) should be explained in the Activities section. AndyZ 19:58, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        The moral values, I did not expand on, since I have no clue what specific moral values the group instills, and what one considers "moral values" is different from the person to my front, to my rear, to my left and to my right. I expanded about the sporting events and memorial visits. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 20:22, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        I can see what you are trying to point out- still though, "moral values" must mean something to the group as a whole. We aren't talking about individual moral values but of the group, so there should be differences. AndyZ 01:07, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        I changed it from group to individual, since I have no clue what the group moral values are, but I do think they instill some morals values, like honesty, hard work, family is important, duty to country, etc. But, since that is unknown, I left it at a general "individual moral values." User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 04:52, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- The reference formatting has to be all conformed into one type- probably <ref></ref> system. AndyZ 02:06, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - Finished. I got started, but I had some dinner to take care of. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 02:37, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Support I like the fact that this article is concise, there are too many bloated FAs around. Great work Z! Borisblue 05:46, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, comes very close, but it needs a copyedit. Some examples from the "Activities" section. I support. Tuf-Kat 15:38, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- ~~" for their country. They accomplish this activity" "their"/"this" has no plural antecedent~~
- ~~" ribbon is worn on shirt or jacket and also might be tied into a bow" many problems, passive voice, missing an article in front of shirt, vagueness ("might"?)~~
- "Most of the activities the BRSM does are very similar to those that were performed by the Soviet Komsomol." With no link to Komsomol, this isn't a helpful sentence. Add a link, move it to the beginning of the paragraph and explain why this is true.
- ~~"signed a letter signed"~~
- ~~"At a meeting of the 39th Congress of the BRSM" not clear why this sentence is relevant~~
  - I think I hit them all in the Activities section. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 16:59, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Support, the grammar and sentence structure problems have been dealt with. Andrew Levine 17:19, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think this one raises an important issue. You say you lack knowledge of Russian; I don't know if that means you know a little or none at all, but I think clearly knowledge of Russian would be a huge help in getting info. Also, I think there's a question about the availability of information. Does this group publish a paper? The article does mention a radio station; can't we expand on that some? What I'm basically wondering is whether it's possible to write an FA quality article on this unless you have access to substantial Belarusian media and print sources. Obviously this article is short, and that's a big problem; the question arises: is the difficulty of finding information a valid excuse for the brevity, or should we expect that, if the information exists—albeit in circumstances that make it difficult for most of us to get to it and read it—the article should work off of that as reference material in order to be FA quality? I'm not voting, but I think those are some important issues there. Everyking 08:52, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
To answer your point, I have no clue about a paper (gazette is a common name I seen in Russian papers), i'll try to expand on the radio station, but I have classes this morning. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 14:25, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Human Rights Watch did not mention about a paper, but I did find out the English name of the radio station, and what frequency it is on in Belarus. I managed to find the official website of the radio station at http://www.pixelhead.by/local/style/, which gives a little bit of information (in Russian). Still looking for the paper, though. Everyking, do you think it will be appropriate to create a section in the article displaying the differences and the similiar things that are common with the BRSM and the Soviet-era Komsomol? User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 14:42, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Everyking that difficulty of finding information is not a valid excuse for the short featured articles. However, I was satisfied that the article covered all the basics, though there is much room for expansion and detail. I also suspect, by the sound of them, many of their sources will be exagerrated to make them look good and sell themselves to the Belarus masses. Some concerns:
- "The Belarusian Youth Union was considered the "legal successor" of..." - the word "considered" and the quotes around "legal successor" make this statement ambiguous, does the article mean they actually are the leagal successors or that some people (members? critics?) believe they are the successors?
  - Lukashenko said in a speech that I cited that he says the BRSM is the "legal successor" (his words, not mine) to the Komsomol. While I do not believe this is in dispute, since the original Komsomol is no longer present in Belarus and the BRSM is headquarted in the old Komsomol building, I just need to see what sets the BRSM appart from the Komsomol. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 02:50, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Statement that are begging for references:
  - "President Lukashenko stated that while membership..." - controversial, could easily be disputed
    - [1] says "While President Lukashenka has stated publicly that membership in the BPSM would "never be" mandatory for appointment to government positions, it is clear that BPSM membership in this regard is advantageous." This statement is followed by a report from Interfax about how BRSM members get a leg-up in the employment food-chain. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 02:50, 8 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - "A person must also pay a one time fee of 1,400 rubles (0.65 USD)..." - 65 cents for a year's membership? Fees and currency are always subject to change, please provide a year for which this particular fee applied or a reference to where they state their membership fees.
    - The official website of the BRSM (now down for some reason) has the frees, and that was cited at footnote 5. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 23:16, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - "President Lukashenko has issued a decree that allows..."
  - "Belarusian political activists have also began to call the BRSM 'Lukamol'..." - provide at least one example of this happening
    - The political group "Zubr" (Bison) have an active campagin that says "Stop Lukamol" and Human Rights Watch also documents the use of Lukamol at http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/belarus/Belrus99-06.htm (footnote 39 at the link) User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 23:16, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Please format the Reference to be in line with Wikipedia:Cite sources/example style#Web sites and articles (not from periodicals) (& other related examples on that page). --maclean25 20:20, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - I think I got everything. However, I probably want to send it through FAC again later, since some of the major things that this article needs have gone 404 during the course of the nomination, so I need to work with the above editors to get this article alright with them. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 03:12, 10 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Support A consice and excellent article. --S iva1979^{Talk to me}10:02, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I like it! Flcelloguy (A note?) 17:58, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Could you concatenate identical footnotes? See my last edit for an example. Circeus 19:19, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Alright. I think completed that little task. I still need to find out if the BRSM website is still down, and if it is, I still need to figure out how the website being down will affect this FAC. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 23:26, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - I could have sworn there were more dupicates than that o.O. And if the site goes down definitely, you can always use Wayback Machinelinks. Circeus 23:33, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    - Your right, the Internews website was used a few times. At my last count, 16 sources are used (three of them are used more than once). I was wondering if there is anything that I am missing still? User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 23:38, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  - BRSM website is back up. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 23:27, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Support, looks okay for featuring. Circeus 23:54, 12 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I am not sure if Everyking has come back yet, but dispite him not voting, I just need some backing on adding a section about similarities between the BRSM and the Komsomol. But, I think that would be OR, except for the stated obvious (same activities, BRSM membership is not forced). User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire) Fair use policy} 14:31, 14 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]