Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Charles I of Anjou/archive1

Add links
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 1 January 2021 [1].

Charles I of Anjou[edit]

Nominator(s): Borsoka (talk) 06:13, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a 13th-century French royal prince who established a powerful Mediterranean empire before his and his retainers abuse of power led to a popular revolt, known as the Sicilian Vespers. He is also the founder of a powerful dynasty, with members ruling southern Italy, Greece and vast lands in Central and Eastern Europe in the 13th and 14th centuries. Borsoka (talk) 06:13, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Funk[edit]

  • Looks interesting, will have a look soon. At first glance, there are some duplinks, which you can highlight with this script:[2] FunkMonk (talk) 16:18, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The footnotes could get citations.

Thank you for starting the review and also for your first comments. Borsoka (talk) 17:13, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • You could state (perhaps in parenthesis) what his father died from?
  • The sources do not reveal it. I added the date of his death. Borsoka (talk) 04:34, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "to prevent other suitors from attacking" Attacking who?
  • As far as I can see, Louis IX is not presented or linked in the article body? I opnly know he was the brother of the article's subject by looking at the intro (which I always read first so I can notice such omissions), but both intro and article body should be able to stand on their own.
  • "about to join his brother's crusade" Link that crusade here?
  • You link Battle of Al Mansurah in an image caption, but shouldn't it be linked in the adjacent article text too, if that's when the subject was captured?
  • "rebellions had broken out in Provence." Any articles to link? And why did it happen?
  • "He received territories in the Lower Alps from the Dauphin of Vienne.[44] Raymond I of Baux, Count of Orange, ceded the title of regent of the Kingdom of Arles to him." When did either happen?
  • I think the previous sentence determines the timespan: 1256-60. Exact dates are not mentioned in the cited sources. Borsoka (talk) 04:34, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "but the latter choose to attack" Chose?
  • It seems a bit odd to have a section in a biography called "Collapse". Perhaps call it "Collapse of the empire" or similar, to indicate it is not the person who collapsed?
  • "declared the war against Aragon a crusade" wouldn't it be better to have the link at "war against Aragon" than at "a crusade"?
  • "his forces were forced to withdraw" Forces were forced sounds clumsy. Reword one "force"?
  • "However, he fell seriously ill" Do we know anything about his symptoms?
  • No further details in the cited source. Borsoka (talk) 04:11, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Charles and his first wife" You could state her name in the caption.
  • Hohenstaufen should also be linked at first mention outside the intro.
  • Shouldn't the intro mention his death at the end, as it is supposed to summarise the entire article?
  • Support - nice work on this interesting and important article! FunkMonk (talk) 11:31, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for your comprehensive review and also for your support. I am grateful for your work. Borsoka (talk) 12:03, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • Suggest scaling up the map
  • Some images are missing alt text
  • File:Karel1Anjou.jpg: since this is a 3D work, we also need information about the photographer to determine copyright
  • I cannot find it, but the link shows it was placed on public domain by the French Ministry of Culture. Borsoka (talk) 03:55, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The link provided in the image description goes directly to the image alone, with no information about copyright. What link are you referring to? Nikkimaria (talk) 14:09, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, the link goes directly to the image ([3]: "http://www2.culture.gouv.fr/Wave/image/archim/0001/dafanch02_pc35000592_v.jp"), but it is a subpage on the website of the French Ministry of Culture ([4]: "https://www.culture.gouv.fr/"). Borsoka (talk) 14:31, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • What page states that the image was placed into the public domain? Nikkimaria (talk) 15:54, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sorry, I do not understand the question. I thought the Ministry's website is a public domain. Borsoka (talk) 16:03, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The website has a copyright notice at the bottom. Now, it's possible they've released some of their materials into the public domain, but we'd need to find a link that says so. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:46, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you. I try to find the photographer. If I fail, I will change the picture. Borsoka (talk) 15:48, 30 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:KorunovaceKarlazAnjou.jpg: source link is dead
  • Dead link deleted (the other link is working). Borsoka (talk) 03:55, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Viterbo,_palazzo_e_loggia_dei_papi,_05.jpg: as Italy does not have freedom of panorama, this will need a tag for the original work
  • I understand it has a specific free use permit ([5]). Borsoka (talk) 03:55, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think what is meant here is something like PD-old, to show that the original architect is long dead... FunkMonk (talk) 01:44, 3 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
As I understand it contains an explicit permission for the picture's use in wikimedia. Borsoka (talk) 02:49, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hardly by the original architect, though, which is what I think is requested, just a tag that says this is PD due to age. FunkMonk (talk) 03:33, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No, by the relevant authority (the local municipality). Borsoka (talk) 05:53, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but I am pretty sure Nikki means the structure itself, based on earlier reviews. I just added it to get it done. FunkMonk (talk) 11:31, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Charles_of_Sicily.jpg should include a date for the original work
  • File:Karel_Anjou.jpg needs a US PD tag
  • File:Charles_d'Anjou_comte_de_Provence.jpg needs a creation date and author date of death for the original work. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:08, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your review and comments. I highly appreciate your work (especially, because I am not a copyright expert). Borsoka (talk) 03:55, 29 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Aza24[edit]

Support on prose based on my read through at PR. I'm a non-subject matter expert on this, but as far as I could tell, the research and comprehensiveness was there as well. Aza24 (talk) 03:18, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you for reading the article and also for your support. Borsoka (talk) 03:37, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - Pass[edit]

Will do soon. Aza24 (talk) 03:18, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • I've updated the ISBNs
  • Not source related, but there's some inconsistencies with use definite articles before talking about someone, for example you have "Historian Peter Herde notes..." and "Historian Steven Runciman emphasises..." vs "The 13th-century historian Saba Malaspina stated..." and "the Florentine historian, Giovanni Villani, stated..." – I would think using "the" for all is ideal
  • Spot checks not done – although I have spotchecked this nominator before
  • I have no doubts on reliabillity or quality of sources
  • "Ann Arbor, Michigan" is the only location you include, for consistency I would either remove this or add locations to the other publishers
  • Partner needs an identifier of some kind, there's an ISBN here
  • I notice you give page ranges for all chapters except Hollander?
  • I cannot give page ranges. No preview. Borsoka (talk) 02:33, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just nitpicks here, everything else looks good Aza24 (talk) 21:56, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for your source review and comments. Borsoka (talk) 02:33, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Great, pass for source review. Aza24 (talk) 23:37, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by PM[edit]

Not in an area I know anything about, but I'll take a crack.

Lead
  • suggest "In 1270 he took part in the Eighth Crusade organized by Louis IX, and"
Body
  • suggest "Charles hurried to Aix-en-Provence at the head of an army to prevent other suitors from invading Provence,[10][13] and married Beatrice on 31 January 1246."
  • suggest "Ignoring their mother's strong opposition, his three brothers" (insert comma)
  • suggest piping the Battle of Al Mansurah as follows: [[Battle of Al Mansurah|fighting against the Egyptians at Al Mansurah]]
  • "but they were to abandon the campaign"? Why the future tense? Should it be just "but they abandoned the campaign"

More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:46, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for starting the review. I highly appreciate your assistance in improving the article. Borsoka (talk) 14:49, 13 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • counts' rights and revenues→count's rights and revenues, unless we are referring to more than one count here? In which case it isn't clear who else if being referred to
  • "their joint rule" whose?
  • "Emperor Frederick II, who was also the ruler of Sicily, died in 1250"
  • "Richard did not want to fight against Frederick's son, Conrad IV of Germany" but if Frederick was king, why would Richard be fighting Conrad?
  • Frederick was already dead (as it is mentioned in the sentence quoted above). Borsoka (talk) 02:07, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Charles returned to Provence, which had again become restive" from where did he return?
  • "Foulquois was elected pope in February 1265" what was his papal name?
  • link Philip of Montfort, Lord of Castres
  • suggest "subventio generalis" tax"
  • link Pisa, Constantinople, Poggibonsi
  • Frederick Lancia?
  • link Siena
  • no link for Walter of La Roche?
  • No link exists. Now a red link. Borsoka (talk) 02:07, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • link Cremona, Aigues-Mortes, Viterbo, Piedmont, Alessandria, Latino Malabranca Orsini, Rhône
  • Done. Aigues-Mortes already linked. Borsoka (talk) 02:07, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • senechal→ seneschal, also in the Legacy section
  • comma after "Galeran could not pay his troops"
  • link Messina at first mention in the body
  • "ruling in southern Italy, which was known as the Kingdom of Naples,..."
  • "emphasized Charles' full competence"
  • "and a partimen, the latter with Pierre d'Angicourt." no need for the parens here
  • comma after "entitled The King of Sicily, to Charles"
  • the citations to Fine don't link because you've used 1994 instead of the more recent edition of 2009 in the citations
  • add |ref=none to the Further reading books to avoid the harv errors

That's it. Nice job thus far, mostly prose/grammar and wikification. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 01:12, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Great, supporting. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 02:26, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for your review and support. Borsoka (talk) 02:37, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Coord note[edit]

@Nikkimaria: Are the image concerns addressed? Ealdgyth (talk) 16:19, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lead image is still pending. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:21, 27 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your patience. I changed the lead image. Borsoka (talk) 03:32, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This image, perhaps cropped, might be better. It seems unfortunate to have to fall back on a later image when there are contemporary ones. Srnec (talk) 05:44, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. I understand that image cannot be used because of the special Italian copyright laws. If it could be used, I would also prefer it. Borsoka (talk) 08:48, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Are you saying it's licensing on Commons is wrong? Srnec (talk) 16:36, 28 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Nikkimaria: could the picture be used? Borsoka (talk) 00:59, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Srnec's proposed replacement would need to address the Italian FOP issue. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:01, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your answer. In this case, I cannot change the picture. Borsoka (talk) 02:26, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Nikkimaria: Who owns the copyright in question here? The sculpture is PD and the photo is CC. Srnec (talk) 05:19, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Cultural heritage works in Italy are subject to additional legal restrictions - go through the link I provided and then click on Italy for more information. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:16, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikkimaria: are we good on images? Ealdgyth (talk) 14:36, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:17, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Charles_I_of_Anjou/archive1&oldid=997735275"