Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Choiseul Pigeon/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by GrahamColm 00:43, 23 July 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Choiseul Pigeon[edit]

Choiseul Pigeon (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 22:48, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because I believe that, though it is a bit on the short side, it includes all information known about the Choiseul Pigeon and meets the FA criteria. This unique pigeon was only observed once by Western scientists despite numerous follow-up expeditions to acquire more skins for European museums. The indigenous peoples reported that the species became extinct in the 1940s due to the introduction of feral cats. Thank you for reviewing the article. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 22:48, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Jim Good stuff, but the usual nitpicks follow Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Link Mangrove on first occurrence, link iris
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • All the links in the first two lines of Extinction are duplicates
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think it's helpful to introduce the various named people, eg American scientist Jared Diamond instead of just a name
I think I got them all. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is it worth giving origin of Goura? Its the New Guinea aboriginal name for the crowned pigeons. (Jobling p. 176.)
Yes it is, thanks. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Though this species had no known close relatives, it is believed to have been most closely related to — to have been closest to avoids repetition
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Adult Choiseul Pigeons of both genders — words have gender, birds have sexes
Changed. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • chalky-blue frontal shield. This frontal shield was — This was avoids repetition
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • dark indigo in colouration that gave off a slightly purple — Gave off seems odd, just had
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • largely considered to have been endemic — Do you mean usually considered?
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The indigenous people of Vundutura — island? Town? Mountain?
Town. Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • dark, cream-coloured egg — Not sure it can be both dark and cream-coloured. Very unusual for pigeons to lay dark eggs too
There is a picture of the egg on page 244 of the second external link. It is primarily cream-colored, but it is a dark cream colored. Dark, cream-colored is how the reference describes it too. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • which is considered small in proportion to the bird — is that compared to other pigeons, or for pigeons in general compared to other birds?
I think it comparison to birds of a similar size. The source states it as: "This bird makes no nest but lays on the ground, one egg of dark creamy white and small in proportion to size of bird." I think it is best as is, but let me know if you disagree. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • bird calling or by the bird's droppings — bird calling or by the droppings avoids repetition
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Choiseul Pigeon with the arboreal Crested Cuckoo-Dove in modern folklore, and several claims of the Choiseul Pigeon's continued existence turned out to be the Crested Cuckoo-Dove — can this be rephrased to avoid repetitions of both birds' names?
Maybe fixed. Please check. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • sole primary objective — sole or primary? Can't be both
Can't it? The only reason they went there was to get Microgoura, but since they were going there they weren't ignoring the other, more minor opportunities offered. Eliminated sole. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • off of Choiseul's southeast — lose "of"
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hartert ref has different cap style to others, you should make it consistent even if it is different from the original
Done. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for reviewing the article again; I've replied to your comments above. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No further concerns, changed to support above Jimfbleak - talk to me? 05:57, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 14:53, 20 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done

  • British Ornithologist’s Club or British Ornithologists' Club? (and watch you're not using curly apostrophes)
Great catch. I never noticed that before. At the risk of sounding out of the loop, what is wrong with curly apostrophes (which they no longer are for the BOU). Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 16:24, 24 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Mostly it's to facilitate searching; there's a more complete explanation over at MOS:PUNC. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:17, 24 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Birdtheme is reliable in providing images of stamps published by the world's varying postal services. It does not invent stamps, nor does it post vanity stamps, and, in the event that the website does not include all Choiseul Pigeon stamps, no such claim is made. While it is someone's personal website, it appears to be widely-used and accepted in the stamp community, and it is really the images that are cited from the webpage. Birdtheme is also used in a number of bird FAs to exhibit how some species have been used in stamp designs. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 16:24, 24 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for undergoing the source review. Rufous-crowned Sparrow (talk) 16:24, 24 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Yzx

  • link between this species and the crowned pigeons -- "this species" is used later in the article to refer to the Choiseul Pigeon; suggest "that species" or "it".
  • Though this species had no known close relatives, it is believed to have been closest to the Thick-billed Ground Pigeon -- it's a bit odd to state that there are no close relatives, and then give the closest relative. Qualifiers of some sort would help.
  • link between the Thick-billed Ground Pigeon and the crowned pigeons of the genus Goura -- no need to state "of the genus Goura" again.
  • not sure what is meant by "link". The term evokes missing link, but I don't think that term should be used for extant(ish) species.
  • crest is dramatically different -- "was"?
  • developed into a browner rump -- "developed" seems weird, maybe "transitions into".
  • There are two uses of "in colouration" in Description that I don't think are necessary.
  • Why is the description of the color of the eyes and bill placed after size instead of with plumage color?
  • The Choiseul Pigeon was about 31 cm (12 in) long, while the female had slightly smaller wings -- think this should be two sentences, as the statements don't really make a contrast.
  • The Choiseul Pigeon was only known from the island of Choiseul in the Solomon Islands off the coast of New Guinea, to which it is usually considered to have been endemic -- the sentence construction here is awkward, suggest "The Choiseul Pigeon is usually considered to have been endemic to the island of Choiseul in the Solomon Islands off the coast of New Guinea, where the only specimens were collected."
  • It also reportedly lived on the neighboring islands of Santa Isabel and Malaita, and it is suspected that it may once have lived on Bougainville Island. -- the explanation for listing Bougainville Island separately should be moved up from the Extinction section to here.
  • "Notwithstanding" is usually attached to a noun, and I don't think it's necessary here anyway.
  • The specimens Meek acquired were likely collected near Choiseul Bay in the northern part of the island.[10] The last reports of the species from the indigenous population came from the Kolombangara River.[10] -- seems like this should go before the talk about other islands.
  • few feet off of the ground -- should be metric if possible.
  • The organization of the Relationship with humans section seems a bit scattered. For example:
  • As I mentioned, information about Meek's search should be integrated with Distribution and habitat, since it explains why there are additional suspected reports.
  • That the bird was looked for on cat-free islands is stated before the mention of cats being suspected of causing its extinction, which doesn't flow logically.
  • Information about the Whitney South Seas Expedition is split between two paragraphs (and the first says three months, the second says two months).

Nice, compact article. My issues are mostly cosmetic and organizational. -- Yzx (talk) 22:04, 27 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Most of my issues were dealt with before the GAN, so not much to add from me. But I have a few comments. FunkMonk (talk) 20:52, 10 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • "as its crest is dramatically different" Isn't that a bit loaded?
  • "and several claims of the pigeon's continued existence turned out to be the cuckoo-dove." Based on the cuckoo-dove? The claims weren't the bird, of course.
  • The image licenses look fine, but there is no OTRS permission for the image under description. Shouldn't be much of a problem, since all but the crest is copied from the public domain Keulemans image. FunkMonk (talk) 21:02, 10 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments - largely looking good but the sequence is funny when it mentions the Whitney Expendition in the Relationship with humans section and then again in Extinction where the expedition is expanded upon. I think this would scan better if this latter subsection is placed under Distribution and habitat - where it would sit better listing places it was looked for, and the expedition is discussed before being mentioned again briefly at the end. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:35, 14 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

  • Taxonomy: Spaces after the em dashes should be removed per MoS.
  • Extinction: Not sure Bougainville Island needs another link here, since there's already one a few sections up.
  • Also, the gizzard link is repeated in Relationship with humans.
  • Does "Extinct" need the capitalization?
  • IUCN should be spelled out in the Extinction section. Giants2008 (Talk) 00:22, 26 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments, largely minor:

  • This may be a problem with what the sources say, but "the New Guinean aboriginal name" is probably nonsense: I'm sure there are different words for these pigeons in some of the many New Guinean languages.
  • Has this genus never been placed in a specific tribe or subfamily? The article on the family suggests that the classification of the Columbidae is in a state of flux, but perhaps a little more can be said.
  • Don't use easter egg links: "called" links to the Choiseul languages. And do the sources confirm that the languages involved are those? It's entirely possible that other languages, classified in a different group, are spoken on the island.
  • Maybe the sources don't cover this explicitly in this case, but a main reason it's somewhat unlikely to have been truly endemic to Choiseul is that Choiseul, together with Bouganville, Malaita, and Santa Isabel, was part of a larger island called "Greater Bukida" during the Pleistocene when sea levels were lower. The following source should discuss this: MAYR, E. & DIAMOND, J. 2001. The Birds of Northern Melanesia: Speciation, Ecology, and Biogeography. Oxford: Oxford University Press. (I read about it in a piece on Pteralopex bats.)

Ucucha (talk) 20:12, 4 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delegate comments -- Nominator still around? There appear to be a good many unacknowledged comments above... Also, if this proceeds, we need an image review from someone. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:33, 6 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I can do the image review as well, but how long does nominator have before this is archived? Is anyone willing to fix the remaining issues if he doesn't show up in time? Am I even allowed to do so, as a reviewer? FunkMonk (talk) 01:15, 8 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Tks FunkMonk but given there appear to be more unactioned than actioned comments above, and the nominator hasn't attended for over a month, I don't see an alternative to archiving. That would give you the opportunity, if you choose, to address outstanding concerns away from here and bring it back after the usual two weeks or so under your own name. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:46, 8 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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