Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Copa Libertadores/archive3

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by GrahamColm 20:51, 16 July 2012 [1].

Copa Libertadores[edit]

Nominator(s): European-football-master (talk) 17:37, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because I believe, before, the quality was great. With some minor and major improvements in certain sections, information is now more fluid. It is very informative and its format is one of a kind. It is ready. European-football-master (talk) 17:37, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose based on sourcing alone. There are plenty of dead external links and refs which need addressing. Two dabs need fixing. No consistent date format, certain refs are not correctly formatted. Under 'Ambassador', why does "Pelé, widely regarded among football historians, former players and fans to be one of the best and most accomplished footballers in the game's history" require so many references? Lemonade51 (talk) 19:04, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed all of the links. As far as Pele, there will always be arguments as to why or why not he is considered the best. To make sure it is thoroughly sourced (to eliminate any appearances of bias, I sourced numerous citations. European-football-master (talk) 20:23, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose – Sorry, but there's way too much unencyclopedic writing for this to be considered among our best work. Some examples of problems are listed below, but the whole article will need a deep cleaning and I'm not sure this can be accomplished during an FAC.

"It proved to be historic justice for many (even today) due to Penarol's great contributions to the creation of the tournament, but the Copa Libertadores did not receive international attention until its third edition, which was swept through the sublime football of a Santos team led by Pele, considered by some the best club team of all times." Note that I highlighted this as an issue at the article's last FAC, and it is still here. That in itself tells me that there hasn't been enough improvement since that point.
"Os Santasticos, also known as O Bale Branco (or white ballet), which dazzled the world during that time".
"Argentine football finally inscribed their name on the winner's list in 1964...".
"With two titles already in its showcase, Independiente created a winning mystique which was prolongated by Francisco Sa, Jose Omar Pastoriza, Ricardo Bochini and Daniel Bertoni; pillars of the titles of 1972, 1973, 1974, and 1975."
"after defeating title holders Gremio which included an incredible 1–0 win in the first away leg...".
"astonished South America as they eliminated title holders Independiente in La Doble Visera 2–1 during the last decisive match of the second round".
"Goalkeeper Rene Higuita cemented his legendary status with an outstanding performance as he stopped four of the nine Paraguayan kicks and scored one himself."
"sparking an unforgettable party in the country that celebrated the conquest in the streets as well as ending Olimpia's second golden era."
"Masterfully directed by Carlos Bianchi". Giants2008 (Talk) 01:20, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for the same reasons as Giants, above. Note also:-

"The first edition of the Copa Libertadores took place during in 1960."
"Led by coach Osvaldo Zubeldía and a team built around figures such as Carlos Bilardo, Oscar Malbernat and Juan Ramón Verón, went on to become the first ever tricampeon of the competition."
"...an Estudiantes squad depleted of key players that helped lift it to its recent glory."
"Universitario became the first team from the Pacific coast to reach the finals after eliminating Uruguayan giants Peñarol and defending champion Nacional at the semifinal stage". They beat two opponents at the semifinal stage?
"finally ended" is tautologous. It's like saying "initially began"

Apart from the above examples of bad grammar or poor sentence construction (and there are many, many more), the general tone of the prose is far removed from that of an encyclopedia, much more akin to that of a sports magazine. In an encyclopedia we don't talk about a team "thumping" its opponents. This is reasonably entertaining as a football article, but it comes nowhere near meeting the FA criterion on prose. Fundamental rewriting necessary. Brianboulton (talk) 14:33, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The article is impressively detailed, but apart from minor details - El Grafico needs italics - I have one major gripe: why this and History of the Copa Libertadores cut off at 2009? I liked seeing the final as much as anyone who hates the losing team, but there have been three more editions since, add something on the 2010s! (European Cup and UEFA Champions League history has it, just for starters) igordebraga ≠ 19:03, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per above. I'll list some of the details in the article right now I would want to see sourced:

"Although Peñarol was the first club to win three titles, Estudiantes had done this feat consecutively."
"The first leg in Lima ended on a 0-0 tie, while the second leg in Avellaneda finished 2-1 favoring the home team. Independiente successfully defended the title a year later against Colo-Colo after winning the playoff match 2-1. Los Diablos Rojos kept the trophy again in 1974 after defeating São Paulo 1-0 in a hard-fought playoff. In 1975, Unión Española also failed to dethroned the champion in the finals after losing the playoff 2-0."
"Just like in 1963, Boca Juniors had to watch as the visiting team lifted the Copa Libertadores in their home ground and Olimpia became the first (and so far only) team from Paraguay to do so."
"it proved to be their last hurrah in the international scene as Uruguayan football, in general, suffered a great decline at the end of the 1980s.[41] The Manyas fierce rivals, Nacional, also won one last cup in 1988 before falling from the continental limelight."
"The 1989 edition also had another significant first: it was the first ever time that no club from Argentina, Uruguay, and Brazil managed to reach the final. That trend would continue on until 1992."
"Vélez Sársfield's consegration in the Copa Libertadores was considered an institutional victory and it was Carlos Bianchi, a former Vélez player, that built a squad capable of playing on an equal footing on any terrain against any team."
Poor grammar in numerous places, namely ending sentences with prepositions, spelling, and general encyclopedic language.

The article has a lot of information, but it suffers drastically in these two areas in particular. They would need to be looked at thoroughly. —Ed!^(talk) 20:30, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.