Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Frederick Delius/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain 16:55, 8 February 2011 [1].

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Frederick Delius

Frederick Delius (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured article candidates/Frederick Delius/archive1

Nominator(s): Brianboulton (talk) 19:03, 1 February 2011 (UTC), User:Tim riley Tim riley (Talk)

Frederick Delius left his Yorkshire birthplace in his teens and thereafter never lived in and rarely visited his homeland, yet he remained a Yorkshireman at heart, following the cricket and reminiscing in old age about childhood holidays in Scarborough and Filey. He began composing relatively late – he was well past 40 before he established any sort of name. In time he developed a unique sound which makes his works easily recognisable, though his music has never been widely popular. His cause was taken up, most notably, by Sir Thomas Beecham, and a small but dedicated following continues to promote his works. This article has been created with the help of numerous hands, and many thanks are due to those editors who helped Tim and I to prepare the text and images. We feel it now meets the FAC criteria, and offer it we hope for your pleasure. Brianboulton (talk) 19:03, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Support I participated in the peer review and submitted a review at that time. My concerns were addressed, and I believe this meets the criteria. Well done Brian and Tim.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:24, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for this support and the kind words. Brianboulton (talk) 12:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Support. This is a comprehensive, excellently written, and well sourced article. It would make an excellent addition to wikipedia's featured articles.4meter4 (talk) 19:40, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Again, thanks for this support and help in getting the article together. Brianboulton (talk) 12:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Support. Well written, noted and referenced, a clear account of Delius's life and music, certainly FAC quality. --Smerus (talk) 20:29, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, commnt much appreciated.

• Comment - Are there no free recordings of his work? Even so, snippets of non-free performances would greatly enhance the article, much more so than non-free images in other feature articles. Without audio, we're essentially dancing about architecture. The external links send you to Youtube copyright violations, you need to kill those. - hahnchen 23:11, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
  • Unless I'm missing something, his work is in the public domain. Non-free samples would not be acceptable. J Milburn (talk) 00:47, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
    • Not all of his works are in the public domain; some were published post-1923 proper with US copyright law and some were jointly authored with someone who survived quite long.[2] Delius's public domain scores also would not mean that performances of them are free; US copyright durations for audio works are quite long... To be safe, it would have to be a recent performance whose performers are willing to forgo their copyright or to license it under a compatible CC license. Jappalang (talk) 15:24, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

• Comment - The article looks excellent against the FAC, I only have the odd naive question (relating to FAC 1(c)) having so little knowledge of the topic and recognizing that other areas such as neutrality, consistency, writing style etc. seem fully addressed:
  • The main sources (ignoring dictionaries) appear to be Beecham, Palmer and Fenby with editions being the range 1940s-1980s. As an open question, are these the best available main texts or might there be a more recent work that is cognisant of the research that might have been done in the last 30 years? Note, I am quite prepared to believe that these are the best modern sources as I have no other particular work in mind though Mary Christison Huismann does pop up and is absent from the sources.
    • This is a fair point, but such is Delius's lack of fashion that the number of post-1980s sources is very limited, and I believe that the sources we have used do provide the basis of a comprehensive summary of Delius's life and works. Lionel Carley, in a bibliography appended to Anthony Payne's Grove Music Online biography, lists over 100 books and other writings, only a handful of which were produced in the past 20 years and those mainly only tangentially about Delius. The Huismann book to which you refer is a "Guide to Research" rather than a biographical work or a source of fresh analysis, but it may well be worth listing as "Further reading". Brianboulton (talk) 12:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
  • His illnesses (blindness, paralysis) were caused by syphilis. This is cited to the ODNB but no other sources. As this appears in the lead it is probably worth having multiple sources for his illness and diagnosis. I find Medical Histories of Prominent Composers: Recent Research and Discoveries has some interesting detail that might be added.
    • Payne mentions it in his Grove biography, as does Michael Steen in The Lives and Times of the Great Composers (Icon Books, 2009). These references can be added. I don't have regular JSTOR access, though I think my conom does, so I will leave him to comment on the suitability of the Saffle & Saffle article you mention. Brianboulton (talk) 12:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
      • That article confirms the diagnosis, and I have added the ref to our article. (Tangentially, The Manchester Guardian in its obit attributed Delius's paralysis to multiple sclerosis, but whether this was because it was misinformed or simply mealy-mouthed I cannot say. I have not mentioned this in our article as it is so clearly not to the point.) Tim riley (talk) 14:18, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
  • Looking around for interesting alternatives showed Montgomery, Robert; Threlfall, Robert (2007), Music and copyright: the case of Delius and his publishers, Ashgate Publishing, Ltd., ISBN 9780754658467 - not much is mentioned in the article about law and the issues that Delius with the early copyright legislation and I wondered if this might be brought out considering the modern interest in such matters.
    • One for Tim. For myself I rather doubt whether adding details of the legal copyright issues is necessary in this article, but I will leave it to him. Brianboulton (talk) 12:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
      • The copyright status of Delius's works has indeed been of interest both to performers and lawyers in the past. I agree, though, that it is a bit specialist in interest for a general biography/music analysis article. Tim riley (talk) 14:05, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
  • I notice that Fenby's book "Delius As I Knew Him" was originally published in 1936 rather than the most recent 1981 edition referenced. Perhaps it would be useful to add the origyear parameter to the main sources to add context as well as the particular edition currently referenced?
    • Done as you suggest. Brianboulton (talk) 12:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
  • In some FA's (example) the footnotes cross-link to the sources section using {{harv}} or its variations (though this might mean converting {{cite book}} to {{citation}} in Sources). This is a style option rather that a MOS recommendation but now might be a good time to get a consensus to either add this as an improvement or avoid it as a complication.
    • Thanks for the suggestion, but I believe that the present citation method meets all FAC requirements and see no advantages in changing it. Brianboulton (talk) 12:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Fæ (talk) 06:44, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for these useful comments. Brianboulton (talk) 12:12, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Support - Based on actions and thoughtful clarifications in response to my comments raised above. Fæ (talk) 23:08, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

• Comments—this is very good, as we've come to expect from the nominator. A few things I picked at random:
  • "Fenby, however, draws attention to Delius's "flights of melodic poetic-prose",[52] though conceding that the composer was contemptuous of public taste, of "giving the public what they wanted"." —Might need unravelling and explaining: what is "poetic-prose" melody? The logic hingeing on "though" is hard to work out.
    • I'm not sure I understand Fenby's precise choice of words, but I understand his general meaning: people say Delius lacks melody; Fenby finds melody in his music, but concedes that Delius didn't pander to popular taste by writing pretty tunes (like Mendelssohn, sneers Delius). I have clarified a mite. Brianboulton (talk) 22:52, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
  • "At Leipzig, Delius became a fervent disciple of Wagner and sought to master the latter's technique of continuous music." Perhaps "At Leipzig, Delius became a fervent disciple of Wagner, whose technique of continuous music he sought to master."
    • Your wording adopted. Brianboulton (talk) 22:52, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
  • "At different points in his career Delius drew inspiration from Chopin, from his contemporaries Ravel and Richard Strauss,"—"his contemporaries" were Delius's, or Chopin's?
    • Clarified Brianboulton (talk) 22:52, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
  • I just have a slight concern that Palmer indulged in speculation here and there in a way that would be considered unfortunate nowadays. I've no evidence for this, since I've never heard of Palmer and don't have his text in front of me. "Grieg, however, was perhaps the composer who influenced him more than any other. The Norwegian composer, like Delius, found his primary inspiration in nature and in folk-melodies, and was the stimulus for the Norwegian flavour that characterises much of Delius's early music.[44]" I'm taking it on trust that enough of the melodies in early Delius do palpably resemble Norwegian folk-songs. Did Palmer do a survey? Did he have a compendium of Norwegian folk-songs to back up his claim? Possibly the stylistic imprints of N f-s (the modes, the intervallic patterns, the rhythms?) were the evidence he was going by, but I hope it really is the case, and not just a loose hunch based on one or two memorable observations of Delius's melodies. Vaughan-Williams and Sharpe had only recently documented English folk-song, so we do have solid evidence of its role in the stylistic identification of English art-music of the first half of the 20th century; I doubt there was much to go by in the 1970s concerning the Norwegian equivalent. I don't suppose Palmer gave examples. (The "perhaps" is a give-away; if that is Palmer's word, you might consider shifting the uncertainty to another place where it sticks out less as POVing by WP: "may have been" would be better.) And of the "nature as stylistic stimulus" claim: was this meant to leak into the "influence of Grieg on Delius" claim in turn? I'm being very fussy here because (1) it's great to have a summary of a composer's style and its origins, and (2) it's hard to do definitively, and a lot of music scholars during the 20th century got away with murder in making assumptions that don't stand up robustly to fuller analysis. What does Grove say?
    • I don't think that Palmer was writing on the basis of a loose or unconsidered hunch; I think he has done his homework here. His book contains an entire chapter on the relationship between Delius and Scandinavian music, including the specific influence of Grieg. Palmer lists a number of Delius's apprentice works which he suggests are Scandinavian in flavour, and points out that Delius chose the texts for many of his early songs from the same works of Scandinavian poets as did Grieg. He goes on "[Grieg] was the first composer to draw inspiration directly from nature and in folk-music with its origins in, and redolence of, rural as opposed to urban communities...In this respect Delius was one of Grieg's legitimate sons and heirs, for nature throughout his life was his prime source of inspiration." The "perhaps" is my own reservation, to avoid tedious repetition of the "according to Palmer" formula. Fenby refers several times to Delius's debt to Grieg, and records that Delius continued to send his scores to Grig for comment for many years after Leipzig. Grove refers to Delius's "highly personal vision" which matured throughout the 1890 and was based in equal parts on Wagner and Grieg "whose airy texture and non-developing use of chromaticism showed him how to lighten the Wagnerian load". I have brought the latter quote into the article. Brianboulton (talk) 22:52, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
  • To take this up again: "At Leipzig, Delius became a fervent disciple of Wagner and sought to master the latter's technique of continuous music. An ability to construct long musical paragraphs is, according to the Delius scholar Christopher Palmer, Delius's lasting debt to Wagner.[43]" I guess so. It would be nice to know whether Wagner's harmonic procedures influenced Delius, specifically. Whether Wagner's avoidance of cadential formulae (e.g., his use of V–VI to carry us forward, extension upon extension of the phrase) is what Palmer was thinking of; whether Wagner's schemes for modulation were influential; whether his rather dull approach to melody can be seen in Delius (counterbalanced in Wagner's case, of course, by rich harmonies and textures). It's hard to see this matching the use of Norwegian folk-song! I don't know much of Delius's music at all, and I don't think I've ever set eyes on a score of his; if you have access to the music, assessing Palmer's claims is the kind of WP:OR that is entirely admissible, in my view, as a service to our readers in our role as ring-master of the sources.
    • I have extended the sentence in which deals with Palmer's take on Wagner's influence. The matching of the Wagerian influence with the Norwegian folk influence is rather neatly summarise by Payne's comment in Grove, (see above), which I have adopted. I have not studied Delius's scores nor would I trust myself to interpret them; as a highly incompetent pianist I've never even attempted the piano tranpositions - far too elevated for me. Brianboulton (talk) 22:52, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
  • "Delius "thought the sounds first" and then sought the means for producing these particular sounds.[54]" This is the usual way to compose (even if later composers of much more dissonant, complex music—Stravinsky and Messiaen, to name two—did fiddle it out at the piano as they wrote). To cite an authority saying this of Delius as though it's a notable characteristic of his compositional process is strange, unless there's something else to make it worth saying.
    • Foss's full sentence is "He thought the sounds first, and set them down as a second creative step." Earlier, Foss likens Delius's view of the orchestra as that of an expressive poet or great painter. He was not an orchestral virtuoso in the manner of Liszt or Mahler. If I understand the rest of the article, the "sounds" Foss refers to are those that reflect natural scenes, like the atmosphere of stillness in a sheltered garden. I think I know what he is driving at - after having listened to a great deal of Delius, that sentence made immediate sense to me as I read it.
  • "Foss observes Delius's lack of conventional form, and likens his music to painting,[54] a point echoed by Cardus.[51]" Conventional form being ... sonata? Or is the point wider than this: that there's a lack of macro-repetition? The allusion to painting is really interesting, especially as it's made by two writers. But I can't grasp exactly what it means: what kind of painting? How does the analogy with paining relate to "lack of conventional form"—there is conventional form in the vast majority of great paintings.
    • The sentence "Foss observes Delius's lack of conventional form, and likens his music to painting, a point echoed by Cardus" is an unfortunate conflation and contraction of two separate points, so that neither comes properly across. I have extended the text to reflect the intended meaning. I also noted that some of the information in this paragraph was illogically ordered and I have remedied that, too. Brianboulton (talk) 22:52, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
  • Non-free recordings: 1922 is the magic last year of public domain on the multi-jurisdictional internet (Ravel is an exception: 2016?). Unfortunately, the publishers of scores written after this year can claim fees for recordings and public performances of music, no matter when the composer died. Tony (talk) 12:38, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Tony, thanks for these insightful comments, unsurprising given your background. I will address them all, though it may take me a short while. Meantime, here is some stuff on Palmer. Brianboulton (talk) 16:29, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

My responses now added. Brianboulton (talk) 22:55, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Image review concern: I had vetted the other images before this FAC, except for File:James Elroy Flecker at Cambridge.jpg. This should not be on Commons; it should be hosted on Wikipedia with {{PD-1923-abroad}} and {{Do not move to Commons}}. The photograph's (a UK work) authorship has not been ascertained by reasonable inquiry yet, and could fall foul of the photographer's copyright (70-year pma). Jappalang (talk) 14:58, 2 February 2011 (UTC) Replaced by local file File:Flecker Cambridge crop.jpg

I had intended to raise this very point with you before this nom, but overlooked it. Can you tell me how images are delisted from Commons - I've not done this before. Brianboulton (talk) 15:40, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

It would be easy if one had Commons administrator rights (simply delete the image), but I suggest doing the following:

1. Upload the image to Wikipedia under a different name (copying over the information of the image).
2. Use {{PD-1923-abroad}} and {{Do not move to Commons}}, explaining that the UK work's authorship has not been reasonably ascertained.
3. Use the local image instead of the Commons copy in the article.
4. (Optional) Nominate the Commons version for deletion (or speedy {{copyvio}}).

A similar case happened at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/When Love Takes Over/archive1. Jappalang (talk) 01:35, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I have acted in accordance with 1, 2 and 3 above. A new Flecker resides in the article. Brianboulton (talk) 21:55, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Conominal thanks to Brianboulton for this – plainly a mighty wrestle. Tim riley (talk) 22:40, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Images are fine and dandy. Jappalang (talk) 00:14, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

External links concern: I just removed two copyright violations (Youtube videos) from the external links. They were not uploaded by their principal copyright holders (Julian Lloyd Webber and associates) not by their permission. Policy (WP:LINKVIO) specifically forbids such linking. The International Music Score Library Project (IMSLP) might have a copyright violation on its site—Cynara was jointly completed by Fernby who died in 1997, who is recognised by the Delius Trust as a joint copyright holder,[3] IMSLP did not list Fernby in the credits for this score. Can anyone explain this (with facts)? If the score is copyviolation, then it is against policy to have that IMSLP link. More of a guideline matter: I am not convinced that ChoralWiki (with its sole chorus) qualifies as a useful link per WP:EL. Jappalang (talk) 14:58, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I have removed the queried items pending investigation (they are a leftover from the article before Tim and I took it on). I am surprised, as a general point, that links of this sort are subject to copyright laws, but I accept your advice Brianboulton (talk) 15:40, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Support. I made some comments and suggestions (on a "fresh pair of eyes" basis) at peer review, all dealt with speedily and to my satisfaction. A very well-organised and readable article, even to those of us who don't go out of our way to listen to Delius's music - thanks to the co-noms for their hard work. --GuillaumeTell 17:47, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Many thanks both for the support and for your earlier comments. Tim riley (talk) 18:18, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Disambig/External Link check - no dabs or dead external links. --PresN 01:17, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Support. I proofread this article. The article is a clear explanation of the composer's life and works, well-illustrated and referenced. I believe that it complies with all the Featured Article criteria and should be promoted. -- Ssilvers (talk) 07:01, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Source Review by Ruhrfisch. As requested, I have checked all the sources to the extent that I was able to (I do not have access to the print only sources, nor do I have access to most of the subsription only sources). I found no instances of copyvios in spot checks, but did find the following quibbles:

• Current ref 12 ("Gauguin: Samuel Courtauld's alter ego?". Courtauld Institute. http://www.artandarchitecture.org.uk/stories/cumming_gauguin/cumming_gauguin02.html. Retrieved 23 January 2011.) is used for the claim in Note 7 "Delius bought Gauguin's picture Nevermore from him, now at the Courtauld Institute in London." while the ref confirms the painting's current owner, it says nothing of Delius' prior ownership.
  • This was a recentish addition by another editor. At the time the article prominently featured Jelka's portrait of Delius in which the Gauguin picture is clearly visible behind him, but as we have since got rid of that image (copyright reasons) it seems pretty pointless to go on about the Gauguin picture, and I have removed the note. Tim riley (talk) 17:58, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
    • SOrry to lose the note as it was an interesting bit of trivia, but I can see the reasoning for not including it. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 01:53, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
• In the Notes, the Manchester Guardian should be linked at first occurrence (Ref 10) not second (Ref 13)
• Current ref 16 should indicate that it is subsription required (Saffle, Michael; Jeffrey R. Saffle (July - December, 1993). "Medical Histories of Prominent Composers: Recent Research and Discoveries". Acta Musicologica: 77-101. http://www.jstor.org/stable/932980. Retrieved 2 February 2011.)
• The sources for current Refs 23 and 24 give the date as well as month and year (May 1 and February 1, respectively)
• Current ref 60 says it is subscription required, but I can access it without a subscription (Mendl, R.W.S. (July 1932). "The Art of the Symphonic Poem". The Musical Quarterly 18 (3): pp. 443–62. http://mq.oxfordjournals.org/content/XVIII/3/443.full.pdf+html.)
• Current ref 61 says subscription required but is to the print version of The New York Times (no online link given). (Newman, Ernest (16 March 1930). "His Country At Last Acclaims Delius". The New York Times Quarterly: p. SM7.)

Will finish the review of sources and make a few othe comments in a few hours. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 15:13, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for these sources comments. I will ask Tim to deal with the Gauguin one, as it's his note. The Manchester Guardian is now linked in note 10 rather than 13. I have added a subscription tag to the Saffle article. I don't think we have to specify "May 1" and "February 1" because the Musical Times is a monthly journal - only one issue for May and for February. I have removed the subscription tag for the Mendl article, but I'm pretty sure that the free availability of the whole article is a mistake by Oxford Journals which they will soon rectify. I have removed the tag from the NYT Newman article which does not link online. I look forward to reading the rest of your comments. Brianboulton (talk) 16:13, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Last source review comment and general comment

• Current Ref 71 needs the full title "The Musical Times and Singing Class Circular" of the journal ("Mr. Fritz Delius". The Musical Times: p. 472. July 1899. http://www.jstor.org/stable/3367034. Retrieved 20 November 2010. (subscription required))
• I uploaded a free photo on Flickr of a sculpture memorial for Delius in Bradford at File:Quatrefoil for Delius.jpg (the UK has freedom of panorama, so it should be free here). The Bradford Libraries has a page explaining it here
• In the lead, would He became paralysed and blind. He completed some late compositions between 1928 and 1932 with the aid of an amanuensis, Eric Fenby. read better as something like He became paralysed and blind, but completed some late compositions between 1928 and 1932 with the aid of an amanuensis, Eric Fenby.
  • It would indeed. So done. Tim riley (talk) 21:23, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 18:05, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I have fixed "Ref 71" (it's 69 now) and Tim has I think dealt with the Gauguin, so maybe all sources issues fixed now? Brianboulton (talk) 21:52, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Support All of the source and other quibbles I noted have been resolved. Nicely done, and thanks for including the image I found. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 01:53, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Leaning support with some comments:

• I notice you use "Delius's" throughout the article, except for the Find-a-grave link - is there a reason that one is "Delius'"?
  • Inherited from an earlier contributor (and, I blush to say, not spotted by us). I understand that Find a Grave references are now deprecated in Wikipedia, so I have removed it. Tim riley (talk) 21:16, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
• What is "freehold"?
  • This may be a transatlantic thing. In the UK (and France, more to the present point) one can hold property outright (freehold), or for a period (leasehold) after which it reverts to the freeholder. I suppose it would not greatly distort the facts to say that BG bought the house, and I have edited thus. Tim riley (talk) 21:16, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

This term is used by lawyers in the U.S., but is not commonly known among the laiety. Your edit makes it clear to all readers. -- Ssilvers (talk) 07:25, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

• The Double Concerto is for violin and cello, correct? Should specify for non-musicians
  • Correct, and done
• <<Music writer Anthony Payne observes that Grieg's "airy texture and non-developing use of chromaticism showed [Delius] how to lighten the Wagnerian load>> - where does the quote end?
  • Quote closed. Brianboulton (talk) 23:34, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
• "mannered in harmony" - what does this mean?
  • Reading the source again, I realise this is more my own interpretation than Palmer's so I've removed it. Brianboulton (talk) 23:34, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
• "Delius is often assumed to lack melody and form" - might want to reword that to explicitly refer to either style or music, as I'm fairly sure Delius had a form
  • Well spotted, clarified. Brianboulton (talk) 23:34, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
• Is there a less colorful heading available than "Full flowering"?
  • I have changed it to "Full maturity", and altered the previous one to "Towards recognition". Brianboulton (talk) 23:34, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
• Suggest linking Holst
  • Yes - done. Tim riley (talk) 21:32, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
• Are University of Jacksonville and Jacksonville University the same place?
  • They are. The latter is the official designation - duly amended. Tim riley (talk) 21:16, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
• Delius festival or Festival? World War I/II or First/Second World War?
  • Lower case festival (now made consistent). Brian: have you a view on how to phrase the two conflicts? Happy with whichever you prefer. Tim riley (talk) 21:16, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
    • Either form is idiomatic in the UK, but "First WW" and "Second WW" are maybe more traditional, so I'll standardise to that. Brianboulton (talk) 23:34, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
• What is RPS?
  • Now spelled out. Tim riley (talk) 21:16, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
• Some problems with reference and source formatting and consistency. Examples: in Ref 8 Musical Times should be italicized; Music and Letters or Music & Letters?; some journals include publishers while others do not; several newspaper articles are missing page numbers.
  • I'll go through them with the proverbial fine-toothed comb tomorrow. These are eagle-eyed and invaluable observations. Thank you so much. More to come on progress. Tim riley (talk) 21:16, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Nikkimaria (talk) 20:34, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

• • • I have fixed these referencing issues, where possible – and one or two others – but some of the newspapers are from archives, which don't provide the original page number. Tim might like to look things over again in case I've missed something. Brianboulton (talk) 23:34, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Support - I made a minor contribution to, and followed, the peer review closely. I have read the comments above but I don't see any obstacles in the way of the article's promotion. Delius is one of my favourite composers and I have read Fenby's Delius as I knew him many, many times. I think this article is a brilliant synopsis of the life and works Delius. I look forward to seeing it on the Main Page. This is a major biography, and one of Wikipedia's best.Graham Colm (talk) 21:39, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Wow! What a morale-booster of a message! On behalf of Brianboulton and myself, warmest thanks. Tim riley (talk) 21:56, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Support, like GrahamColm I made a minor contribution at peer review, but unlike him I have not read Fenby. Nevertheless, I am sure this is a very fine article, one of our best, and should be "promoted". It needs to go on the main page on 29 January 2012. --RobertG ♬ talk 23:23, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

• Thank you. It is pleasing to see this general enthusiasm for the article. It will be great to get the TFA slot next 29 January, let's hope there are no other significant anniversaries that day! Brianboulton (talk) 23:38, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, of course a different Frederic will be 39 exactly one month later on February 29, but that will not conflict with Delius. -- Ssilvers (talk) 07:30, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

• Have you considered adding music samples to the article? I also wonder if you should flip the Recordings and Legacy sections, so that the article ends with that grand Palmer quote—indopug (talk) 15:51, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

• The problem with soundfiles is that nothing of Delius was recorded before 1927, and hardly anything until after the Second World War, so recordings tend to be under US copyright. As to your other suggestion, no, I don't think the article would improve by shifting the sections. The "Legacy" is integral to the article and follows on naturally from the preceding sections. "Recordings" is more of an Appendix, not directly concerned with Delius's life. It is properly placed at the end. Brianboulton (talk) 16:49, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

As co-nominator I agree with Brianboulton on both points. The rhetorical flourish would be splendid, but the logical sequence takes precedence surely. Nonetheless delighted that Indopug has found the article sufficiently engaging to read it all and comment. Many thanks. Tim riley (talk) 21:35, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Why is copyright an issue? Use clips that adhere to fair use guidelines. WesleyDodds (talk) 23:00, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Because using 30-second clips of Delius's music to illustrate it would be absolutely useless and pointless. Brianboulton (talk) 01:05, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.