Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Hensley Henson/archive1
Hensley Henson[edit]
Hensley Henson (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
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- Nominator(s): Tim riley talk 12:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
This article is about an English bishop who was not averse to ecclesiastical fisticuffs. I'm not sure how comfortable he would have been to know personally, but I have much enjoyed reading about him and writing him up here. I have a particular soft spot for the article as ten years ago it was informally reviewed by the late and still painfully missed Brian Boulton and shortly after that was reviewed for GAN by one of our leading lights on church history, Ealdgyth. I've added to it since then, and I look forward to comments from anyone kind enough to look in. Tim riley talk 12:37, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Pickersgill-Cunliffe[edit]
- What a pleasingly alliterative name!
- Indeed! Infectious. I found myself writing on my talk page, seeking reviewers, "belligerent bishop ... combative creature". Tim riley talk 15:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Bishop of Hereford is a duplicated link in the lede
- The MoS, I understand, no longer regards duplicate links as mortal sins, and – without feeling adamant about it – I think the duplication is possibly helpful here. Tim riley talk 15:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- As you don't begin the article with his full name, both Herbert and Hensley are technically unreferenced!!
- I suppose so. Done. Tim riley talk 15:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Link Anglican on first mention
- No strong objection, but we've linked Anglican and C of E already, and I'm not sure another link would be helpful. Tim riley talk 15:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- "Henson undertook their functions himself." which Henson are we referring to here?
- Hensley. Renounced the devil and all his works on his own behalf. Clarified. Tim riley talk 15:08, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- "akin to that of an alien" are we able to say why this was the case?
- Not specifically – he just wasn't part of college life in the usual way, I think. Tim riley talk 15:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- "his research
es"?
- I think so, yes. Tim riley talk 15:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- "October 1885" repeated year
- True. Not needed and now gone. Tim riley talk 15:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- "after being ordained deacon" my religious knowledge is very poor, but I was under the impression that one would be ordained a deacon of a particular church/diocese. Is this the case here?
- No. An ordinary C of E deacon is a deacon anywhere in the C of E. It's like a lance-vicar, as it were. (I think there are other kinds of deacons, more specialised, but HH wasn't one such.) Tim riley talk 15:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- What's Salisbury's original connection to Henson? His patronage seems to come out of nowhere!
- Salisbury was associated in a lay capacity with St Margaret's, Barking, but I think it would be going into rather too much detail to expand on this, though I'm willing to negotiate. Tim riley talk 15:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Westminster Abbey is a duplicated link
- Freemason and Freemasonry is the same link
- Indeed, to both but as I say above we are now, I believe, permitted duplicate links where we think them helpful to our readers. I think these are OK. Tim riley talk 15:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- "Chadwick writes that it was said of Henson"
- Gosh, yes! Thank you! Tim riley talk 15:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Paragraph ending "Few of his colleagues agreed with him, even those dismayed by the parliamentary vote." is uncited
- Very good point. Now attended to. Tim riley talk 15:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- "Henson retired from Durham"
- There is no requirement, as far as I can see, in the MoS to use a name at first mention in any para. The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography does, in fact, pretty much do so in its article on Henson, but doesn't do so systematically for other subjects, and personally I like to keep the surnames under control and use pronouns whenever they convey the intended meaning.
That's all I have for now. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 14:16, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Some smashing points there – thank you so much, Pickersgill-Cunliffe! Tim riley talk 15:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
Image review
- File:Hensley-Henson-Vanity-Fair.jpg needs an author date of death. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:38, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Good old Commons – you can rely on it to let you down! Image replaced locally on En-Wiki with due data. Thank you, as always, Nikkimaria! Tim riley talk 15:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
MSincccc[edit]
Placeholder for now. MSincccc (talk) 17:50, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Lead
- While there, and as Dean of Durham (1913–1918), he wrote prolifically and often controversially.
- Not sure the sources justify "often". Tim riley talk 08:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- In 1920 after two years in the largely rural diocese of Hereford,...
- We need commas on both sides of the subordinate clause. Tim riley talk 08:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- ...; because of this some members of the Anglo-Catholic wing of the Church of England accused him of heresy and sought unsuccessfully to block his appointment as Bishop of Hereford in 1917. Dropped the comma before "and".
- No objection to this. Done. Tim riley talk 08:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- He campaigned against prohibition, the exploitation of foreign workers by British companies, and fascist and Nazi aggression. He supported reform of the divorce laws, the controversial 1928 revision of the Book of Common Prayer, and ecumenism. Can these two sentences be strategically combined for a more concise sentence?
- In my view it would be cumbersome to attempt to cram three things HH campaigned against and three things he campaigned for into a single sentence. Would you care to suggest a form of words? Tim riley talk 08:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Tim riley You can use this- Henson campaigned against prohibition, the exploitation of foreign workers by British companies, and fascist and Nazi aggression, while supporting divorce law reform, the 1928 revision of the Book of Common Prayer, and ecumenism. MSincccc (talk) 10:30, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- But that would not be true. He did the six different things at different times, not simultaneously as your wording says. I don't in any case think replacing two sentences of 17 and 19 words with a single long one of 33 words does the reader any favours. Tim riley talk 10:45, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Tim riley You can use this- Henson campaigned against prohibition, the exploitation of foreign workers by British companies, and fascist and Nazi aggression, while supporting divorce law reform, the 1928 revision of the Book of Common Prayer, and ecumenism. MSincccc (talk) 10:30, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- In my view it would be cumbersome to attempt to cram three things HH campaigned against and three things he campaigned for into a single sentence. Would you care to suggest a form of words? Tim riley talk 08:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- While there, and as Dean of Durham (1913–1918), he wrote prolifically and often controversially.
- MSincccc (talk) 17:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- Life and career
- His father was a zealous evangelical Christian who had renounced the Church of England and joined the Plymouth Brethren, whereas his mother shielded her children from the worst excesses of what biographer Matthew Grimley describes as Thomas's 'bigotry.' However, in 1870, she died, and, in Henson's words, 'with her died our happiness.' Provides for a smoother flow given that we know who his father and mother were from the previous lines.
- Life and career
- MSincccc (talk) 17:59, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
- In my view that is an inferior wording. It is no shorter and gratuitously introduces "whereas" and "however", two words better eschewed as a rule. Tim riley talk 11:14, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- ...allowed him either to be baptised or to attend school. Dropped the "a" before "school".
- Looks all right to me. Tim riley talk 11:14, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thomas Henson was against the idea, partly because his financial means had declined, but was talked round by his wife and gave his consent. Do we need to mention his full name here; will either "Thomas" or "Henson" not do?
- We discourage the use of forenames alone as too chummy and using the surname alone here would be ambiguous.
- Till here for the time being. Hopefully, you will find them useful. Regards. MSincccc (talk) 10:47, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Comments by Wehwalt[edit]
Just a placeholder, will return Monday or Tuesday.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:27, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
UC[edit]
Saving a space. UndercoverClassicist T·C 08:43, 15 July 2024 (UTC)