Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Hotel Polen fire/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Ucucha 01:41, 11 January 2012 [1].

Hotel Polen fire[edit]

Nominator(s): S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 02:12, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because it is currently a Good Article and after addressing the issues raised at Peer Review I believe this article is ready to become a Featured Article. I have translated this article from the Dutch Wikipedia and significantly expanded it. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 02:12, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments, leaning to oppose: a very interesting subject, but I just don't think this article is ready yet. I see quite a few issues with the prose, which may stem from it being translated? Some examples:

Hotel Polen (English: Hotel Poland), a hotel in the centre of Amsterdam burned to the ground. -- This reads very strangely, and it's somewhat repetitive from the first sentence, which already establishes that the Hotel Polen fire took place in Amsterdam.
The lead does not fulfill WP:LEAD, in that it does not summarize the article as a whole. Consider expanding to include information regarding the fire's cause and cultural impact.'

The exact cause of the fire is still unknown after nearly 35 years. There is only speculation.S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 22:32, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that, but there's currently an entire section in the article called "Cause" -- that there is no known cause should at the very least be mentioned in the lead per WP:LEAD. My point is that it needs to be expanded to properly summarize the article in its current state. María (yllo submarine) 23:21, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I changed it to "Possible cause" S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 03:41, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In the beginning of the 16th century there was an inn on the site where the Hotel Polen later was located. -- Very awkward; "was later located".
At the end of the 18th century the "Poolsche Koffiehuis" (English: Polish Coffee House) -- Probably incorrect per MOS:FOREIGN and/or WP:ITALICS: Poolsche Koffiehuis and "Polish Coffee House", I think? (Check just to be sure!)
In 1891, the Hotel Polen was established by the "Maatschappij tot Exploitatie van het Poolsche Koffiehuis" (English: Polish Coffee House Society)[6] after the adjacent space on the Rokin was bought and a building was constructed there which had been designed by the architect Pierre Cuypers,[6][7] who also designed the Amsterdam Central Station and the Rijksmuseum. -- Borderline run-on, break into several sentences.
On the ground level of the building a café-restaurant was opened. -- Syntax: A café-restaurant was opened on the ground level of the building."
The Hotel Polen was once known as a fashionable hotel. -- Redundancy of "Hotel... hotel". Establishment? Business?
The building had nevertheless been inspected by the fire department and deemed safe. -- When?
They did issue a list of proposed improvements to be implemented by the hotel. -- Such as?

These comments cover only the lead and the first section ("History"), so there are other outstanding issues aside from what's listed here. I would suggest getting a few independent copy-edits, especially from those who have experience with writing/reviewing FAs. You can also ask for a reviewer or two at WP:GOCE; it seems they even have a section for hopeful Featured Articles, so hopefully you'll get an in depth review of the prose. The article just isn't at FA level yet, but like I said it's a very good subject, so it's worth the effort. My suggestion would be work on the prose, make some new copy-editor friends, perhaps go through another PR, and then make your way back here when ready. Good luck! María (yllo submarine) 19:49, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've laid down a request there. Thanks for the tip! S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 21:31, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now, unfortunately, per María. The prose still needs a lot of work, and I can detect a number of style issues. The lede looks quite meagre to me, though the article is relatively short, which brings us to its comprehensiveness. I cannot make a call on this, however, as I'm unfamiliar with the subject. Nevertheless it remains opposable on prose grounds, and I suggest having an uninvolved copy-editor look it over. If the article doesn't garner more replies or reviews in the following weeks I'll attempt to review it myself. All the best, Auree ★ 20:03, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note - I am a native Dutch speaker, so I can perform spotchecks on Dutch sources if required. Just ping me if this is necessary. Auree ★ 20:03, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I would be grateful for any assistance you can give. Thank you! S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 21:31, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator has requested my help in improving the article, so I'll take on the role of copy-editing for now. Auree ★ 21:29, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It would be nice if we could have some more details on the hotel, such as how many stories (levels) it had. Auree ★ 21:55, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The number of stories is mentioned in the infobox. In the Netherlands the "first story" is known as the Begane grond (ground floor) or Parterre (from the French word meaning the same). What is known as the second story in the US is known as the first floor and so forth. The ground floor was rented to a furniture store so there were five floors above the ground floor. Detailed layouts are depicted in the Fire Department report. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 22:27, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wait, was it the café or the furniture store that occupied the ground level? The "History" section states the former... that should probably be double-checked. Edit: I'm not too sure if "History" is an applicable title for the section here. I suggest changing it to "Background" or somesuch, since a fire—which is what the article is about—doesn't really have a history. Auree ★ 22:33, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It was first a café then when business declined it was shut down and the ground floor which previously was occupied by it was rented to the furniture store. Edit: I changed "History" to "Background" per your suggestion. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 03:44, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Try incorporating a bit more information about the hotel itself in the lede, and a lot more details about the fire and its result. A very essential part, the cause, is also missing here. Format-wise, I reckon the lede should look something like this, while the references be moved to the body of the article. Auree ★ 21:55, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Quite a bit of work needs to be done, as can be seen from the comments on the lede alone. I recommend withdrawing, working on improving the article in the mean time and bringing it back here once it's ready. I'll be glad to help you outside of FAC, but I just see too many issues here to address while this is at FAC. Auree ★ 21:57, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

After some consultation I decided to withdraw the nomination for now. I hope I will still get come constructive criticism so it may pass a future FAC nomination. Thanks everyone for your input. S_peakF_ree ^(talk)_(contribs) 00:29, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Good luck, and thank you for taking on this article and working with us! I'm also a native Dutch speaker, so I'm sure we could work to get this article in great shape. Just let me know how I can help on my talk page after the current comments have been addressed. Auree ★ 00:56, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.