Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Hurricane Debbie (1961)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Ian Rose 18:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Hurricane Debbie (1961)[edit]

Hurricane Debbie (1961) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Cyclonebiskit (talk) 23:29, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hurricane Debbie in 1961 was one of the most powerful storms to impact Ireland on record. It brought destructive winds in excess of 100 mph to western parts of the country, damaging or destroying many homes and leaving thousands without power. Across the British Isles, 18 people lost their lives and damage exceeded US$50 million. I believe this article qualifies for featured candidate as I have exhausted both free and paid services to obtain the most comprehensive account of this particular hurricane. I hope you all enjoy reading this article as much as I enjoyed writing it! Cheers, Cyclonebiskit (talk) 23:29, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support, with the caveat that I reviewed it for GA. That being said, here are some last comments.

  • "during September" - in the opening sentence, should that be changed to "in September"?
  • "however, operationally," - remove one of these adverbs.
  • "Once clear of the islands, data on the storm became sparse and it is uncertain what took place with the storm over the following several days as it tracked west-northwestward and later northward." - a comma would be lovely somewhere in here, and maybe change one of the "storm" to "Debbie"
  • "Maintaining this intensity for over a day" - I think "this" should be something like "its peak", or something, given it's the start of a new paragraph.
  • Probably self-explanatory, but I think you should clarify somewhere, perhaps as a note, that all damage totals are in that 1961's currency.
  • "only a handful of which were serious" - handful? :/
  • I think the specifics on the fatalities should be in the same paragraph where you mention the death total.
  • "30,000 trees were felled" - that verb phrasing seems weird to me, but IDK.
    • I dont like the word felled myself as it just feels weird so i changed it to were cut down though i wonder if knocked down would be better.Jason Rees (talk) 18:50, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • UK paragraph is pretty long. Perhaps split into two?

That's it. Overall, looks pretty good. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:45, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Made all the corrections. Thanks for the review Hink! Cyclonebiskit (talk) 00:55, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Inappropriate variety of English Ireland and the UK both use BE, using AE for the article is not appropriate. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 19:32, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ive tried to get it into BE, but am loathed to do too much.Jason Rees (talk) 18:50, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Drive-by 2 Belmullet and Norway are overlinked. Your use of "corn" without a link gives the misleading impression (especially as it's in AE) that it refers to corn Jimfbleak - talk to me? 19:44, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Any comments by the nominator on these? Jimfbleak - talk to me? 07:01, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for not getting to this earlier. I linked corn to maize since that's the intended link and delinked a few instances of Belmullet and Norway. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 21:13, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Fine, I'm aware that in Ireland "corn" often refers to the oats, and I don't have access to the source, so I just wanted to be sure that there wasn't a misunderstanding here Jimfbleak - talk to me? 07:19, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done

  • FN10: is that the correct spelling of the publication?
  • FN14: no title?
  • FN24: missing italics. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:57, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • HURDAT is not good enough to prove that Debby made landfall in Ireland, since the NOAA report says that Debby skirted around the west coast of Ireland. I also note that the supposed point of landfall is less than 2 km away from the sea, which would suggest to me that it didnt make landfall and just passed near the island.Jason Rees (talk) 18:21, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Removed mention of the landfall. After looking at it again, that fact plus the Met Eireann supports the center remaining just offshore. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 16:19, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support – I don't like supporting articles without bringing up a few comments, but I can't find anything worth mentioning. Nice work. :\ TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 00:33, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support – Nice job on totally revamping an article that was originally an idea of mine.--12george1 (talk) 20:58, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Review by SandyGeorgia[edit]

Oppose. Am I correct in assuming that the previous three supports are from hurricane editors? Independent review is needed.

  1. Hurricane Debbie was one of the most powerful cyclones to strike Ireland in September on record.
    Opening sentence, I'm left wondering why the most powerful "in September" ... what is special about September?
    Shouldn't "on record" be after "most powerful cyclones"? Unsure ...
    Changed order, but I think the fact that it's the strongest storm to hit a country in a particular month is pretty notable. I'm sure we'd have the same if we had a record storm in April in the US. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:20, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    OK, but it reads ... funny. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 07:02, 29 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Tracking generally westward, the system eventually moved off the coast of Senegal on September 5 ...
    What does "eventually" add here? Redundant?
    This was done. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:20, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  3. See here and here for discussions of the overuse of however; not all of them used here seem necessary.
    It's used once now in the whole article. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:20, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Unsettled weather associated with the storm resulted in a plane crash that killed 60 people in the islands during this time.
    What does "during this time" add? Please screen for redundant prose.
    CB removed it. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:20, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  5. Once clear of the islands, data on the storm became sparse, and it is uncertain what took place with Debbie over the following several days as it tracked west-northwestward and later northward.
    Once clear of the islands, the storm tracked west-northwestward and later northward, but other data for several days is sparse ??? "With Debbie" seems repetitive, perhaps a different construction like this can be used to solve that.
    Changed. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:20, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  6. Regardless of which took place, the system deepened as it neared the British Isles, ...
    What does "regardless of which took place" add? Redundant.
    To highlight the uncertainty whether it was tropical or not. I personally feel it adds value. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:20, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  7. Throughout the country, 12 people lost their lives in relation to Debbie and damage was estimated at US$40–50 million.
    What does "Throughout the country" add? "To Debbie"? Damage was estimated at US$40–50 million and 12 people died.
    To emphasize Ireland the country, not just the island. I changed the other bit. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:20, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That is only the lead; prose review is needed ... mostly for redundancy. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:44, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Five days, no response from nominator-- unwatching. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:56, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair to the nominator, he and others appear to have dealt with some of your issues but i think he is currently busy in real life dealing with his university stuff. I will double check your comments against the article later.Jason Rees (talk) 23:38, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've gone through the article a few times and made some changes, namely condensing and removing redundancies. Please let me know if there are still issues with the article. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 16:26, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Just noting here that I have contacted Sandy on her talk page to make sure that it's known I've addressed the issues despite the page unwatch. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 17:04, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! I've struck my oppose because I don't have time for further review, but did see that extevensive prose changes have been made. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 07:02, 29 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Image check - all OK (PD NOAA, own work, NASA). Sources and authors provided. GermanJoe (talk) 09:54, 28 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Quick Comment – Just wondering, any reason why you have travelled instead of traveled, as it appears other words like 'center' are written in American-spelling. TheAustinMan(Talk·Works) 00:39, 8 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Changed all instances of 'center' to 'centre' (except for proper names) Cyclonebiskit (talk) 19:44, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. - From a non-hurricane editor. Nice work! GabeMc (talk|contribs) 01:29, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support From another non-hurricane editor. — ΛΧΣ21 02:04, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delegate comments

  • I should have asked for a spotcheck of sources earlier in this FAC's existence so have performed it myself:
    • FN03: no issues
    • FN09a: no issues
    • FN17b: no issues
    • FN24: no issues
  • Query: following up on TheAustinMan's comment, is it the convention that hurricane articles are written in AmEng, even when the storm damages the British Isles? Something to do with them being Atlantic hurricanes? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 01:38, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • I dont think there is such a convention, i believe it just comes down to what the person writing the article is used too.Jason Rees (talk) 01:59, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      • Mmm. I can't see a comparable FA of an Atlantic hurricane that struck the British Isles, so there seems to be no precedent. ENGVAR's guideline of using the form of English most closely related to the subject might come into play, though I suppose some might question whether a storm can have 'strong national ties'... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:23, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Nice read. Meets criteria.--Dwaipayan (talk) 20:09, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment "the most powerful cyclone on record to strike Ireland in September" sounds strange. Was there a more powerful cyclone in another month? Is September known for it's powerful cyclones? Why is the month important here? Mattximus (talk) 22:41, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Just off my own memory and if we are being strict with our analysis then we have the 1991 Burns Day Storm which bottomed out at 1 hPa less and also struck Ireland (Debby's estimated pressure was 950hPa when it made landfall or not).Jason Rees (talk) 01:16, 23 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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