Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Iván Rodríguez/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted 18:12, 4 May 2008.

Iván Rodríguez[edit]

previous FAC never submitted at WP:FAC

I expanded this article and had it brought up to GA, and I think that it is FA status after looking over it. STORMTRACKER 94 Go Irish! 20:24, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments
  • I cannot call myself an expert in baseball, so apologies if my comments are making no sense.
  • Needs Non-breaking spaces throughout.
  • He won the World Series with the Florida Marlins in 2003, and again reached the World Series as the starting catcher for the 2006 Detroit Tigers.Rodríguez has caught two no-hitters for two different pitchers. Needs a space between the two sentences.
  • I'd really like to see more information in the "Early life" section.
A Google search reveals no other things that haven't already been mentioned.
  • Iván Rodríguez was born in Manatí, and raised in Vega Baja, Puerto Rico. I think the mention of Puerto Rico would be better after the name of the first city.
  • In his first game, Rodríguez went 3-for-3 against Spartanburg. While I at least know what 3-for-3 means, it could mean nothing to a regular reader. More explaination for terms and numbers like that would be great.
  • In fact, no other catcher in the past 35 years has been as successful at this aspect of the game, with Rodríguez throwing out 48% of attempted basestealers through May 2006, far more than the runner-up during this period, the late Thurman Munson.[8] A couple problems with that sentence. First off, it's too long, and has too many commas, making it slightly difficult to read. Second, when it says "in the past 35 years", does that mean operationally, or 35 years before the current time?
  • He hit the home run off right-hander Storm Davis. He was named to the Major League Baseball (MLB) Rookie all-star team by both Topps and Baseball America and finished in fourth place in the American League Rookie of the Year voting. He also placed first in throwing out runners, catching 48.6% of runners attempting to steal.[9] This occurrs numerous times in the article, when three or four sentences in a row start with "He". Try to mix up the wording some.

I'll have more later. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 20:45, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

More comments:

  • Rodríguez played in the Puerto Rican Winter League over the winter, but he suffered a severe knee injury which kept him on the bench for the rest of the season. Does this mean he literally sat on the bench for the entire season?checkY
  • On October 9, the Tigers announced that they were picking up the fifth-year, 13-million-dollar option on Rodríguez's contract, keeping him in a Tiger uniform through at least the 2008 season. In a Tiger uniform? Does this mean he is playing with the Tigers, or he just likes the uniform so much that he's going to wear it for the rest of the year? (I know the answer, but some people might not.)checkY
  • Please replace that in-text external link with a reference. checkY

That's it from me. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 13:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

Issues resolved, Ealdgyth - Talk 15:10, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • A number of your website references are missing publisher information, and some are missing last access dates.
    • Current ref 9 "1991 American League expanded leaderboard" is still lacking publisher information.
    • Current ref 19 "Baseball Almanac .." is still lacking publisher information
    • Current ref 21 "Career biography 2001" is still lacking publisher information
    • Current ref 29 "Baseball leaderboard..." is still lacking publisher and last access date
    • Current ref 33 "ESPN - Ivan Rodriquez ..." is still lacking publisher information and last access date
Listing the publisher in the title doesn't work because that makes your references inconsistent with the other references.
Finished with these. STORMTRACKER 94 Go Irish! 15:06, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Replaced with reference from New York Times.
Replaced with a reference from ESPN.com
See Giants2008's comment.
For some reason, the link checker tool didn't translcude onto the page, so didn't check that. Ealdgyth - Talk 22:58, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I took out your strike through, at FAC it's usually not a good idea to edit another person's comments/etc, per the FAC instructions. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:11, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
For the web sites, we need to establish their reputation for accuracy and fact checking, per WP:RS. You can establish this by showing news articles that say the site is reliable/noteworthy/etc. or you can show a page on the site that gives their rules for submissions/etc. or you can show they are backed by a media company/university/institute, or you can show that the website gives its sources and methods, or there are some other ways that would work too. It's their reputation for reliabilty that needs to be demonstrated. Just saying that "It's a database of statstics that could also be found at other places" does not begin to establish reliability. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:33, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have started to contact the websites, but I'm not sure how to get the e-mail to you. Can I forward it to you somehow? STORMTRACKER 94 Go Irish! 23:43, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You can post them here for all the reviewers to see. Ealdgyth - Talk 01:40, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
According to the bottom of the page linked here, Fangraphs is run by STATS, Inc. STATS is a well-known stat-tracking company, owned jointly by the Associated Press and News Corporation.[1] Giants2008 (talk) 02:48, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I removed your check marks, using them REALLY bogs down the page so we try to not use them. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:53, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
He wrote it on his own experiences, so it is reliable.
Primary sources aren't always the best sources for information though. Witnesses aren't always reliable. What makes this a primary source that is needed?
It explains information about his charity, and his early life. This could not be found in another place. The "personal tid-bits" were part of an interview with the Fort Worth Business Press, but can not be found in an archive. STORMTRACKER 94 Go Irish! 15:15, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - I don't think this is ready to be featured yet. Here are some examples of problems with the article.

  • A couple of references still have the publisher in the title. Please seperate them to match the rest.
  • "Rodríguez was awarded the American League (AL) Most Valuable Player Award in 1999." There is a redundancy here. Change "was awarded" to "won".
  • "He ranked fourth in the AL among catchers in batting average, at .260." That batting average is not very impressive for an MVP. How about using his home run and RBI totals for the season to provide context on how Rodriguez earned the award?
  • "Rodríguez has caught two no-hitters for two different pitchers". Delete the first "two". It now sounds like he caught two no-hitters for both pitchers.
  • "The first one was in 1994 when he caught a perfect game by Kenny Rogers". Comma after 1994. The full date of the perfect game would be nice too.
  • "The most recent one was on June 12, 2007 when he caught the no-hitter thrown by Justin Verlander." Try this instead: "The most recent was on June 12, 2007, when he caught Justin Verlander's no-hitter."
  • Another issue with the no-hitters: Neither is mentioned in the season recaps.
  • Early life, second sentence: Change U.S. to United States.
  • "Ivan's first job consisted of delivering flyers in the shopping malls in Puerto Rico." Try "Rodríguez's first job was delivering flyers to shopping malls." We already know he was in Puerto Rico at the time.
  • Typo in fifth sentence of section: two→too.

These are almost all in the lead and and half of Early life, so there are likely other problems. Get some editors new to the article to help out. Giants2008 (talk) 22:42, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Nice article about one of the best ever. Dincher (talk) 01:15, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Version: [2] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:52, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - Very well done, and close, but I have issues with some of the wording as well:

  • "no other catcher in the past 35 years of the League has been as successful at this aspect of the game, with Rodríguez throwing out 48% of attempted basestealers through May 2006." - this entire sentence is awkward. Given that it is in the major leagues section, it is a given that the "League" is MLB, so it's redundant. The sentence can also be simplified: "Over the last 35 years, Rodriguez has been the most successful catcher in this aspect, throwing out 48% of attempted basestealers through May 2006." Also, why to May 2006? Is there not a more recent cite available?
  • "He placed high on his team in many statistics" - This statement in the 1994-97 section is redundant, since you list the stats that he placed high on his team immediately after.
  • The 1994-97 section needs more citations, especially statements regarding the records he set for doubles and at-bats by a catcher.
  • "1997 season, Rodríguez also placed first among catchers in many categories in Major League Baseball. These categories were hits, runs, runs batted in, and doubles." - duplicate use of the word "categories". Consider simplifying.
  • "He placed second in home runs among catchers, below only Sandy Alomar, Jr. of the Cleveland Indians, who had 20 home runs." - Why do you mention how many home runs Alomar had, but not Rodriguez?
  • "On July 24, Rodríguez suffered a season-ending injury in a game against the Anaheim Angels. While trying to make a throw to second base, his thumb made contact with the swing of Mo Vaughn's bat. He fractured his right thumb and underwent surgery the next day. This injury caused him to miss the rest of the season." - Redundancies again. Why do you mention that he suffered a season ending injury twice?
  • "Even though he was injured, he was still named to the second-team of the Baseball America Major League Baseball All-Star Team." - Redundant and awkward. Perhaps: "Despite his injury, Rodriguez was still named a MLB second-team All-Star by Baseball America."
  • "He was selected to his ninth straight MLB All-Star Game in a row," - again, redundant. ...in a row. can be removed. Also, which record did he tie Johnny Bench for? The overall record, or just the record for catchers?
  • "This was his eighth season in a row with batting average of .300 or above." - should be "with a batting average..." Look over the article for simple word errors like this. I also saw a couple typos.
  • I'd recommend removing the statement about the 2003 season and wining the title with the Marlins from the end of the 2000-2002 section. It's unnecessary, and doesn't belong in that section.
  • "In 2006, Rodríguez returned to throwing out runners attempting to steal a base at a very high percentage, as he did in his earlier career" - why is this notable? You've already explained that he was a prolific catcher at throwing runners out. What happened during the middle years of his career that makes this important?
  • There are a lot of "On x day, he did y" statements. It reads like a point form list rather than a cohesive paragraph.
  • Why is it important that Rodriguez led the majors in exhibition home runs this year?
  • Would it be possible to mention what Rodriguez did in the World Baseball Classic? The section seems very empty, simply stating that he played, and who his teammates were - which isn't all that relevant to Rodriguez himself. Certainly more can be said about what he did?
  • On the steroid allegations, I think it would be beneficial to include Rodriguez's statement of denial, rather than simply stating "he denied the allegations" after spending the rest of the section describing the allegations.
  • Delink his wife's name if she isn't notable.
  • The lack of his career statistics is odd to me, but it would appear this was a project decision to simply list his stats via external links? Guess there is nothing actionable there, it just seems interesting to me.

All in all, you've done an excellent job with the article, and are quite close. My biggest concern is the numerous duplication of words and statements. There is a lot of room for simplification. Resolute 01:25, 30 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose. This is some way from FA quality. The lead is underdeveloped, as indeed are many of the other sections. And there are still numerous problems with the prose. "went had three hits in three at bats" is but one example. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 01:43, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Closing notes: the nominator hasn't edited the article since April 25. After reading Jbmurray's Oppose, I revisited the diff of the article (above) that received Support and found numerous grammatical errors, MoS issues, linking problems, and citation issues. If the nominator is still following, I suggest opening a peer review and following all of the tips at WP:FCDW/March 17, 2008, including inviting previous opposers and peer review volunteers to the peer review to comment and help sort out the issues. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:24, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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