Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Johnny Owen/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 3 May 2021 [1].

Johnny Owen[edit]

Nominator(s): Kosack (talk) 13:25, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a Welsh boxer by the name of Johnny Owen. A shy youngster, he became noted for never drinking, smoking or even dating to focus on his career. He won several national and international bantamweight titles before getting his shot at the WBC world title in 1980. However, the fight ended in tragedy after he was knocked out in the 12th round and never regained consciousness, dying at the age of just 24. I nominated this around six months ago but the review attracted no attention and was subsequently archived. Hopefully another run now will gain some traction. I look forward to any comments. Kosack (talk) 13:25, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - pass

  • Source link for File:Juan Francisco Rodríguez (cropped).jpg is dead.

Licensing looks okay - FOP is fine in the UK (statue image), and since the other image looks to have first been published out of the USA before 1978 and was PD on the URAA date, it's fine. Just need a working source link. Hog Farm Talk 01:04, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Hog Farm: Thanks for the review, I've replaced the link on that image with a working one now. Kosack (talk) 12:25, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Accessibility review

Source review[edit]

Spotchecks not done

  • Some of the details in the infobox/lead don't appear to be explicitly cited anywhere - for example the "Merthyr Matchstick" appellation
    I've sourced the Merthyr Matchstick nickname, other than that everything seems to be appropriately sourced. Kosack (talk) 08:47, 21 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Similarly while the Professional boxing record table is broadly supported by the text, some of the specific details are not - eg the precise date of the fight with Hanna
    Added ref for the table. Kosack (talk) 08:47, 21 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dictionary of Welsh Biography is a work title
    Done. Kosack (talk) 08:47, 21 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • What makes BoxRec a high-quality reliable source?
    BoxRec is the go to source on Wiki for boxing really and is used on pretty much every article we have. It's gone through several FACs in the past that I know of. Kosack (talk) 08:47, 21 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Can you elaborate on why it would be considered high-quality? See this guidance. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:26, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry, only just spotted this. The site is used pretty widely by other reliable sites as a source for boxing info, for example Bleacher Report, South China Morning Post, Bloomberg, World Boxing News, etc. The Athletic also has a pretty lengthy piece on it HERE which notes that the site is the official records keeper of the Association of Boxing Commissions, which I didn't even know. Kosack (talk) 09:19, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Be consistent in whether you include location for books
    Done. Kosack (talk) 08:47, 21 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Formatting of Bibliography entries should match that of books cited in full inline
    Done. Kosack (talk) 08:47, 21 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • FN103: work title doesn't match source.
    Done. Kosack (talk) 08:47, 21 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nikkimaria (talk) 01:54, 21 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by Z1720[edit]

I am not an expert in boxing so please consider this a non-expert review. I will complete this in sections due to my time constraints.

Prose review - Lede and Early life

  • "Three further victories led Owen to challenge for the British bantamweight title in only his tenth professional fight." Remove "only"
  • "becoming the first Welshman in more than 60 years to hold the belt." I assume "hold the belt" means "win the title"? Clarify or rephrase this.
    It does. It's a pretty common term in boxing, I've wikilinked belt to Championship belt to help make that clearer. Kosack (talk) 10:11, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He defeated the experienced Australian on points" Define or wikilink "on points"
  • "Owen went on to win seven consecutive bouts in the space of a year" Replace "in the space of" with "within"
  • "losing a torturously difficult contest by way of a twelfth round knockout." Replace "by way of" with "with"
    With doesn't quite fit right I think, you can't really lose with a knockout so to speak. Kosack (talk) 10:11, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "of 25 wins, 11 by knockout, 1 draw and 2 defeats." Is the 11 knockouts included in the 25 wins? If so, it should be in brackets.
  • "Edith Owens (née Hale).[3][1]" References should be in numerical order ([1][3])
  • "The Owens family hailed from Llanidloes but had moved south," Remove "had"
  • "Will worked in an ironworks and was also an amateur boxer." Remove "also"
  • "His mother had also been born in Merthyr" Rephrase: "His mother was born in Merthyr"
  • "council house" Should be wikified, this not a commonly used term outside the UK.
  • "when the family was struck down by a flu virus," Replace "struck down" with "infected"
  • "Owen's father had worked as a miner for 13 years" Remove "had"
  • "However, his wife had suffered complications during the birth of the couple's" Remove "however"
  • "In his desperation, Owen's father nearly placed his children into care in order to be able to continue working but eventually reversed his decision after receiving assurances over his job safety." Remove "In his desperation", "in order to be able", "eventually". Replace "over his job safety" with "that he would not lose his job". (job safety is UK specific prose)

I will pause here and continue this later. Z1720 (talk) 02:59, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Z1720: Thanks for taking this up, I've enacted all of the points above and left comments on two. Cheers. Kosack (talk) 10:11, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Prose review - Amateur career

  • "coming to idolise fellow Merthyr born boxer Jimmy Wilde." Replace "coming to idolise" with "idolising"
  • "Broadbent describes how, by age ten, Owen had developed "some rudimentary" Remove had
  • "competing against other youth clubs from Wales and England." Delete other
  • "noted how Owen struggled to make achieve the weight" Delete make
  • "journey to try and make weight." Replace make with gain? Might be a UK way to say this...
    Make weight is a boxing term in relation to the pre-fight weigh-in where a fighter has to cut (or in this case gain) weight quickly before being weighed to meet the requirements of a certain weight class. I can try to rephrase if you still think necessary. Kosack (talk) 13:25, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "where he began to hone his ring craft with one of his coaches, Idris Sutton, modelling his fighting style on Eddie Thomas." This sounds a little puffery, change to "where he trained with Idris Sutton and modelled his fighting style on Eddie Thomas."
  • "Griffiths though would later win a rematch between the pair." Remove though
  • "When Dick himself was unable to take training" Remove himself
  • "Wales and Scotland saw him draw praise in the local press." Replace "saw him draw" with "drew"
  • "After defeating his opponent, John Raeside, in the second round during their bout in Pontypool" Remove "defeating his opponent"
  • "he was chosen to represent Wales against Sweden in February 1975" What is he representing Wales in? Another tournament?
    The source doesn't really say what it was so I've added "a contest" to try and clarify slightly. Kosack (talk) 13:25, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Owen began fighting as a bantamweight soon after," Replace "began fighting" with "fought"
    I'm not sure of this one as it sounds a little like it was a one off rather than dropping to the weight that he would spend the rest of his career at. Kosack (talk) 13:25, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Professional career

  • "The decision to turn professional also prompted a change of name;" Remove also
  • "The decision to fight an already established opponent proved an astute one as victory." Replace "proved an astute one" with "proved astute"
  • "It was after his debut bout that Owen and his team" Replace with "After his debut bout, Owen and his team..."
  • "The Welsh Area Boxing Council reconsidered its decision soon after and subsequently allowed a title" Delete "soon after" and "subsequently"
  • "with the bout being regarded as an eliminator for the British title." Remove being

British bantamweight title

  • "Owen's championship win immediately resulted in him" Remove immediately
  • "and his belief that the referee" Replace with "and he believed the referee"
  • "nearly floored Maguire." What does floored mean? This needs to be defined or wikilinked.
    Reworded to knocked down. Kosack (talk) 13:25, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Such was Owen's dominance that Maguire's promoter Mickey Duff threatened to end the fight." Rephrase "Maguire's promoter Mickey Duff threatened to end the fight because of Owen's dominance."
    While I'm not averse to the change, this would leave the previous sentence and this one with "Maguire. Maguire's" which is a little repetitive. Kosack (talk) 13:25, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In response, the champion rallied in the ninth round but, when Owen opened up a large cut above his eye in the following round, Maguire's fight was over. Less than 90 seconds into the eleventh round, the referee stopped the fight as blood poured from Maguire's eye." These sentences should be merged as "The champion rallied in the ninth round but the referee stopped the fight in the eleventh round when Owen opened a large cut above Maguire's eye."

I'll pause here. Z1720 (talk) 22:10, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Z1720: Thanks, I've carried out nearly all of the points with a couple of minor comments to review. Cheers. Kosack (talk) 13:25, 4 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Commonwealth bantamweight title

  • "By now the possibility of Owen competing for either the Commonwealth" Remove "by now"
  • "stopping his opponent" Replace stopping with defeating

European bantamweight title

  • No concerns

Rematch with Rodríguez

  • No concerns

Final bout

  • "Feeney started spritely in the opening rounds but again Owen's relentless" Remove again

Death

  • No concerns

Fighting style

  • "he never dated a girl in his lifetime having made the decision to abstain from relationships." Change to "he abstained from romantic relationships."
  • "Such was his leanness, Owen's manager, Dai Gardiner, was even accused of starving Owen for him to compete at bantamweight." Change to "Owen's manager, Dai, Gardiner, was accused of starving Owen to maintain his lean physique and allow him to compete at bantamweight."

Legacy

  • "Johnny Owen Carer's Award are also presented annually" Remove also
  • "which was performed by Pintor who travelled from his home" Put a comma after Pintor
  • You have a quote in the first sentence of the second paragraph. Direct quotes need a citation immediately after, even the source is quoted later in the paragraph.
  • "Johnes's research demonstrates how Owen's story was told and retold, with its meaning and relevance shifting in the postindustrial environment of Merthyr and South Wales." This is interesting information that needs some expansion. How has the mythology and relevance of Owen's story changed? I think you can give a one or two-sentence explanation on this.

That's the end of my prose review. Z1720 (talk) 01:29, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Z1720: I've finished up those last points. Let me know what you think. Kosack (talk) 13:17, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
LOL! Yes, I cut and pasted the wrong editor name.Apologies to you both. Z1720? Gog the Mild (talk) 14:26, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I completely forgot about this. I will take a closer look later today. If I don't respond in 24 hours please post a note on my talk page. Z1720 (talk) 14:30, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Second prose readthrough

Just a few comments:

  • I added some non-breaking spaces to dates throughout the article. Please revert if they are not helpful.
  • "The two fighters possessing near identical records;" Change possessing to possessed
  • "While some Welsh fans had travelled to support Owen although they were said to be "outnumbered 100 to 1 at least"." Delete "while" or "although"
  • "The documentary won two BAFTA awards, including one for best documentary drama." If the doc won two awards, why is the other one not named?
    The other award was for Best Direction which seems more like a technical award rather than directly related to Owen. Kosack (talk) 07:00, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I think since we are talking about the documentary here, which was about Owen, we can include both awards. If it won five awards, I would understand limiting the number we name but it seems weird how one award is mentioned but not the other. Also, the BAFTA website mentions it won Best Doc in the Cymru (Welsh) section. Should this be mentioned so it is not confused with BAFTA Award for Best Documentary? Z1720 (talk) 15:02, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @Z1720: I've added in both awards and made a note of the Welsh section. Kosack (talk) 07:27, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If I don't respond in 24 hours, please message my talk page. Thanks! Z1720 (talk) 20:10, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Z1720: Fixed the two points in the text and responded to the last. Kosack (talk) 07:00, 16 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

All of my comments above have been addressed. I support this nomination. Z1720 (talk) 13:17, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Sportsfan77777[edit]

I'll comment eventually... Sportsfan77777 (talk) 10:52, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It is now eventually. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 06:12, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

  • I would suggest summarizing the titles he has won as the third sentence (similar to the first paragraph of Miguel Cotto for instance).
    The titles are already mentioned in the lead so creating a sort of introduction to the lead itself seems a bit odd. There aren't many examples to choose from, but the existing boxing FAs (Michael Gomez and Susi Kentikian) use a similar format as here. Kosack (talk) 13:33, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Relatedly, if you do that, I would suggest breaking off the rest of the first paragraph and starting the second paragraph with "Owen began boxing at the age of eight..."
  • Owen would beat Sutton ===>>> Owen beat Sutton
    Done. Kosack (talk) 13:33, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Welsh Area bantamweight title ===>>> bantamweight title of the Welsh Area (only to avoid WP:SEAOFBLUE, but I'm not 100% sure if that makes sense?)
    Sea of blue does mention "when possible", and in this case, it's the official name of the title, so rearranging seems counter-productive to the article. Kosack (talk) 13:33, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • including a defence of his British title against Wayne Evans <<<=== I might instead mention the number of defenses, unless you are highlighting this one because Evans is also Welsh in which case I would specify that.
    It was his only defence of the title, that's why I singled it out as the other fights were non-title bouts. Kosack (talk) 13:33, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • WBC champion ===>>> World Boxing Council (WBC) champion
    Done. Kosack (talk) 13:33, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • his version of the world bantamweight title ===>>> his world bantamweight title ("version" makes it sound like it's not real)
    Done. Kosack (talk) 13:33, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • torturously difficult contest <<<=== "torturously" seems a bit editorialized. I'd rather you instead mention or add why the contest was difficult. (maybe the only three knockdowns of his career?)
    Reworded. Kosack (talk) 13:33, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't know if you need some of the numbers (in particular, "in his sixth professional fight", "Three further victories", "recorded five further victories"). The years might make more sense at times, as the second paragraph currently doesn't have any dates.
    Trimmed a couple. Kosack (talk) 13:33, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • If his death concretely led to boxing fights being shortened, that's worth mentioning in the lead.
    Although the ESPN article does link it, the boxing hierarchy would probably never admit it was concretely down to that. Kosack (talk) 13:33, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Early life

  • the fourth of a family of eight children ===>>> the fourth of eight children OR the fourth child in a family with eight
  • had Irish ancestry. <<<=== Are you specifying that his mother had Irish ancestry or his mother's father? (maybe separate into another sentence)
  • in a rented council house, <<<=== you don't need the comma
    Done. Kosack (talk) 13:33, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Amateur

  • Welsh amateur championships <<<=== Is this a junior or youth championship?
    Added. Kosack (talk) 15:09, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • a local nuts and bolts manufacturing factory owned by Suko ===>>> a local Suko nuts and bolts manufacturing factory (to make it sound like Suko isn't a person)
    Done. Kosack (talk) 15:09, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • His job would however cause him health issues ===>>> His job however caused him health issues
    Done. Kosack (talk) 15:09, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Griffiths would later win a rematch ===>>> Griffiths later won a rematch
    Done. Kosack (talk) 15:09, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • after reaching the final of the competition on 4 April ===>>> just "on 4 April" OR explain the competition a bit (usually boxing is only one bout at a time?).
    I'm not sure we need to explain a basic tournament, knockout competitions are pretty standard across any sport. Kosack (talk) 15:09, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • who refused to accept ===>>> ", albeit he refused to accept it." OR split sentence in two (too many "who"s, and add a comma)
    Reworded. Kosack (talk) 15:09, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Owen's father was becoming <<<=== this doesn't seem to specify a "when"
    Well it's more of a generalisation, there's not really a definitive date. Kosack (talk) 15:09, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Owen began fighting as a bantamweight <<<=== What did he fight at before?
    Added. Kosack (talk) 15:17, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • , while representing Wales against an army team <<<=== either replace the comma with a semicolon or start a new sentence
    Done. Kosack (talk) 15:17, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • the fight went ahead with Owen winning on points ===>>> the fight went ahead and Owen won on points
    Done. Kosack (talk) 15:17, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • amateur boxing career taking ===>>> amateur boxing career, taking (add comma)
    Done. Kosack (talk) 15:17, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • He suffered 18 defeats in his amateur career and won the remaining 106. <<<=== It seems unusual to state the number of losses before the number of wins. I don't know if you need to mention the number of wins. It's certainly fine to, though.
    Switched, I've kept both figures as a draw is possible, though rare in boxing. Kosack (talk) 15:17, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • a disappointing note ===>>> two disappointing notes
    Done. Kosack (talk) 15:17, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Professional

  • I'd suggest titling this part as a subsection called "Welsh bantamweight title"
  • although this was dissuaded as being ===>>> although he was dissuaded from this option because it was
  • Owen's initial hopes were low, Kelvin stated ===>>> Owen's initial aspirations were low, with Kelvin stating
  • Owen was driven ===>>> Nonetheless, Owen was driven
  • Owen's stock <<<=== "stock" seems informal. Maybe "standing"?
  • Irishman Neil McLaughlin in his opponent's home nation <<<=== Just checking: Is McLaughlin from Ireland or Northern Ireland? And is he Irish or Northern Irish? I thought they were separate back then?
  • The card suffered several interruptions; ===>>> The card suffered several interruptions:
  • He finished his first year ===>>> Owen finished his first year (and then, start the next sentence with "He")
  • Promoter Heddwyn Taylor raised the idea of Owen challenging George Sutton for the Welsh bantamweight title after his victory. ===>>> This led promoter Heddwyn Taylor to raise the idea of Owen challenging George Sutton for the Welsh bantamweight title.
  • Despite Owen having already beaten Sutton ===>>> Although Owen had already beaten Sutton
  • With their hopes knocked back ===>>> Unable to challenge for the title,
  • found themselves short ===>>> found themselves in need
  • Owen and his trainers voiced their displeasure over the bout and ===>>> Even though Owen and his trainers voiced their displeasure over the bout,
  • before Owen rocked Sutton ===>>> until Owen rocked Sutton
  • he "bionic bantam" <<<=== should this be capital? (it is in the lead.)
  • Was the title vacant or was Sutton the champion? Should specify if vacant. If Sutton wasn't the champion, why was he the one Owen needed to challenge?
All done in this section. Kosack (talk) 07:40, 12 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

British

  • The offer of a British title fight with Maguire initially never materialised and Owen's next fight was a fourth-round knockout of debutant fighter Terry Hanna at Ebbw Vale Leisure Centre in June 1977. ===>>>> When the offer of a British title fight with Maguire initially did not materialise, Owen instead fought debutant Terry Hanna at Ebbw Vale Leisure Centre in June 1977, defeating him with a fourth-round knockout. (parallelism issue)
  • Mention his age when he won the title
  • he had faced the stance ===>>> he had faced a fighter with that stance
  • His opponent was fellow Welshman Wayne Evans with the two fighters possessing ===>>> His opponent was fellow Welshman Wayne Evans. The two fighters possessed
  • anticipated and was both ===>>> anticipated as it was both
  • his opponent's eardrum ===>>> his eardrum ("his" is Owen)
  • flooring his opponent ===>>> knocking him down

Commonwealth

  • stopping his opponent ===>>> stopping him
  • eight-year age advantage <<<=== rephrase to say "younger" rather than advantage? Not sure if being so much younger is inherently an advantage.
  • including being named ===>>> including Owen being named
  • Writers' Club becoming ===>>> Writers' Club, becoming
  • the first boxer to win the award since Howard Winstone ===>>> and was the first boxer to win the award since Winstone

European

  • being rearranged ==>>> and it was rearranged
  • home-town ===>>> hometown (like the rest of the article)
  • challenger's camp ===>>> Owen's camp
  • sat waiting at the gym for Rodríguez to finish his training that took up hours of time of Owen's sessions. ===>>> waiting at the gym for Rodríguez to finish his training, taking up hours of Owen's sessions.
  • What is the issue with wintergreen oil?
    It causes severe irritation to the eyes if applied. Kosack (talk) 13:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • went further and describes the decision ===>>> "went further and described the decision" OR "goes further and describes the decision"

Rematch

  • Make this a subsubsection of the previous subsection. Otherwise, it's misleading to call the previous subsection "European title" when he didn't win the title in that section.
  • prizefund ===>>> prize fund
  • The venue was filled to capacity, with more than 1,800 spectators, and the fight started slowly. Rodríguez restricted the early pace of the opening rounds by holding Owen on the blindside of the referee. ===>>> The venue was filled to capacity, with more than 1,800 spectators. The fight started slowly as Rodríguez restricted the early pace of the opening rounds by holding Owen on the blindside of the referee. (split the setup from the fight)
  • although Owen did cause damage to his opponent after trapping him on the ropes during the sixth. ===>>> . Owen did cause damage to his opponent after trapping him on the ropes during the sixth. (new sentence)

Final bout

  • With Owen now European champion ===>>> With Owen the European champion
  • a fight against the WBC title holder, Mexican Lupe Pintor was rumoured. <<<=== What do you mean by rumoured?
  • Now ranked as the number four ===>>> Having risen to be the number four
  • Discussions between the two parties had suggested a potential meeting in Wales ===>>> The two parties had discussed a potential meeting in Wales
  • and the fight promoter promptly intervened and the press backed off <<<=== start a new sentence
  • They came together <<<=== too informal
  • while some Welsh fans had travelled to support Owen <<<=== start a new sentence
  • His pressure told <<<=== "told" isn't the right word
  • when he landed a strong shot ===>>> by landing a strong shot (also, do you know what kind of punch?)
  • Pintor began to fight less defensively ===>>> Pintor began to fight more aggressively (but it kind of sounds like he was fighting aggressively before too with "tried to take control of the fight")
  • remaining of the round ===>>> remaining in the round
  • right-hand <<<=== no hyphen
  • beer and other missiles <<<=== missiles is too informal

Death

  • He remained in a coma, although his doctor believed his condition was improving, until 4 November when a second bout of pneumonia ultimately ended his life ===>>> Although his doctor believed his condition was improving, a second bout of pneumonia on 4 November ultimately ended his life.
  • Owen left £45,189 to his family and had earned less than £7,000 ===>>> Owen left £45,189 to his family, having earned less than £7,000
  • being fought over 12 instead of 15 rounds ===>>> being shortened to 12 rounds instead of 15
    I think fought over is more fitting. Shortened sounds more like an adjustment than an actual rule change. Kosack (talk) 13:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fighting style

  • at bantamweight.. <<<=== ..
  • His great skill wasn't his strength - <<<=== wrong dash (twice)
  • , Srikumar Sen of The Times <<<=== start a new sentence

Legacy

  • which was performed by Pintor <<<=== "performed" doesn't sound right. maybe "presented" or "hosted"?

Overall

  • Nothing major.
  • The biggest comments are probably on the lead.
  • I'd suggest adding year ranges to the sub-section headers.
  • Run-on sentences are a common issue. I pointed them out above.
  • The prose structure is pretty good in terms of flow from sentence-to-sentence and paragraph-to-paragraph.

I intend to support after these comments are addressed. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 06:12, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Sportsfan77777: Thanks for taking up the review. I've implemented the majority of the points above with a couple of comments thrown in too. Let me know what you think. Kosack (talk) 13:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Supporting, good work! Sportsfan77777 (talk) 03:43, 17 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

HF[edit]

Will take a look at this soon. Might claim for 5 points in the WikiCup. Hog Farm Talk 23:00, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Is so much detail about his grandparents really on-topic?
    I don't think it's particularly exhaustive and provides a good idea of his background, for example the mining communities and some boxing heritage. Kosack (talk) 14:48, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Owen's initial aspirations were low, Kelvin stated how Owen had turned professional with the ultimate aim of claiming a British title or a Lonsdale belt" - I don't know much about British boxing, but it seems to me from reading about the Lonsdale belt that it's not something I'd describe as a low aspiration.
    It's all a bit relative, I don't think anybody ever dreams of gaining a Lonsdale belt but it's still an achievement to get one, although not so much outside Britain. Kosack (talk) 14:48, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Owen's manager, Dai Gardiner, was accused of starving Owen to maintain his lean physique and allow him to compete at bantamweight" - Do sources consider this to be a founded accusation?
    No, Owen was well known for his almost skeletal physique. Kosack (talk) 14:48, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Fitzgerald and Hudson ref needs page numbers
    Added. Kosack (talk) 14:48, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Infobox says 11 wins by KO - looking at the table, I'm getting 10 - 1) Murray 2) Kellie 3) Hanna 4) Maguire 5) Oag 6) Evans 7) Larmour 8) Angliss 9) Smith 10) Garcia
    The Glyn Davies fight ended when he retired due to damage sustained. This is still classed as a TKO victory in boxing.Kosack (talk) 14:48, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Anticipate supporting once these are cleared up. Hog Farm Talk 15:07, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Hog Farm: Thanks for the review, I've replied to all of the comments above. Let me know what you think. Kosack (talk) 14:48, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Supporting on WP:FACR #1a, 1b, source reliability and formatting, 1d, 1e, 2a, 2b, 2c, 3, and 4, did not check others. Hog Farm Talk 18:47, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from TRM[edit]

  • "fragile appearance" would put the nicknames the other round as bionic bantam isn't necessarily about being fragile.
  • "representing Wales" in what context?
  • "later in a Los Angeles hospital" was the bout in LA?
    Yeah. Kosack (talk) 06:57, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why only one nickname referenced in the infobox? It's mentioned in the prose so as long as it's referenced there, no need.
  • "born in Merthyr, although" I know Merthyr is the same as Merthyr Tydfil but do all our readers?
  • "Merthyr born" previous comment notwithstanding, this phrasing should be hyphenated.
  • "In his youth, he suffered a loss to Charlie Magri in a bout in Gurnos" this feels isolated, is there a context for who Magri was/went on to be?
  • "became well known for" would think that should be hyphenated as well.
  • "Owen began fighting as a bantamweight" might be worth just letting us know if this was the heavier or lighter class.
  • "points.[21][17]" order.
  • "He enjoyed a ..." -> "Owen enjoyed a..."
  • You linked amateur boxing in the prose but not professional.
  • ring name has an article.
  • Lonsdale belt, our article capitalised Belt.
  • "prize fund of £125" don't we normally call it "purse"? And can we inflate £125?
  • "controversial draw" any word on why?
    Owen's camp claimed a victory but the constant disruption and rowdy crowd were seen as factors in the judges being a bit reluctant to go against the hometown fighter. Kosack (talk) 06:57, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Referee (boxing) has an article.
  • Points decision does too.
  • The actual Six Million Dollar Man was Steve Austin (character) rather than the TV show...

Takes me to "British bantamweight title" section. Advanced warning, why is the results table in reverse chronological order? I know "that's how it's done on other articles" but MOS:CHRONOLOGICAL is looking for a "good reason". I can't think of a single other sporting BLP or article which presents similar information in reverse order (e.g. international goals, international centuries, Boat Race results etc...) so why is boxing special? More to come on the rest of the article... The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 15:32, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Done to here so far, honestly I have no idea why they are in descending order. I'll drop a message to the good folks at WP:Boxing to see if there's a reason. Kosack (talk) 06:39, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "holding" is a bit jargon, is there a glossary definition which could be linked?
  • "Maguire never materialised" perhaps "failed to materialise".
  • I know we shouldn't partial link formal terms but I wonder if we could somehow link Ebbw Vale?
  • knockout has an article.
  • "hold the belt since Bill Beynon in 1913. He was awarded the belt" to avoid repeat of belt, perhaps first one could be "title"?
  • ""by Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester while" comma after Gloucs.
  • ""that the young fighter was unaccustomed to" -> "to which the young fighter was unaccustomed."
  • "Owen off guard" hyphenate and I guess this is meant literally as well as figuratively!
  • ""he was able to emerge victorious" -> "he emerged victorious".
  • "Leisure Centre. His opponent" merge.
  • "both entered the fight" bout (to avoid repeating fight(er)).
  • "Evans early on" perhaps "Evans early in the round"
  • "in Ebbw Vale on" ok, could link it here?
  • "BBC Wales Sports Personality of the Year" any suitable link? SPOTY is a thing we all know but our global audience?
  • "award since Howard Winstone more" no need to repeat his first name.
  • "case of influenza" you mentioned "flu" earlier without linking, be consistent with what you call it and link it first time.
  • Weight class (boxing) has a section on the "weigh-in".
  • "118 lb" convert and possibly even link units, not sure everyone knows that lb = pounds.
  • "in 3 ounces overweight" convert/link again.
  • "a capacity crowd" any idea what that might have been?
    I can't find any concrete numbers unfortunately. Kosack (talk) 09:13, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "ignored Dick Owens's complaints" MOS suggest avoiding the s's construction.
  • "to the world " internationally? "to the world" feels a little whimsical.
  • "retaining a Lonsdale belt" see previous comment re:Belt.
  • "due for late spring" supposed to avoid seasons as they are location-dependent.

That takes me to "Final bout". More to come. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 16:08, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Zárate has a diacritic.
  • "an option Pintor was open to" -> "an option to which Pintor was open"
  • "the Grand Olympic Auditorium, Los Angeles on" comma after LA.
  • "receiving a fervent support." the "a" seems unnecessary to me.
  • Could link odds.
  • "of the whole fight" is "whole" needed here?
  • "and Tom Jones" might be worth just adding "the singer" or something here.
  • "Wales, Nicholas Edwards sent" comma after Edwards.
  • "thin physique .. lean physique" shade repetitive.
  • "admiration of Owen, remarking "Owen" can we avoid Owen .. Owen?
  • Could link BBC Four.
  • "the Western Mail described him" overlinked.
  • "Johnes's research" again, MOS no likey.
  • Not sure {{Boxing record summary}} has row/col scopes, any thoughts on compliance with MOS:DTT?
    I've rebuilt the table manually to incorporate those now. Kosack (talk) 14:16, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment above re chronology of table is one thing, also date format doesn't need to be truncated.
  • ISBNs should be consistently formatted.

That's about it for me. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 18:37, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Cool beans, last few remarks:

  • "6 (10), 2:45" what does that mean? And when the time is missing, is that because it's not known?
    The first numbers are in which round the right was won and how many it was scheduled for. So, in that example, the fight was won in round six of a ten round fight. In regards to the times, these were added by another user and I've only just noticed that they aren't supported by the ref used so I'm a little unsure where they came from. Removed them. Kosack (talk) 08:29, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Surely record after first fight is 1–0–0 instead of 1–0? And that reflects back into the prose where "an 18–0 record" probably ought to include the draw...

The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 07:52, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Draws are a rarity in boxing, and combat sports in general, so are not really acknowledged unless the fighter actually has one. Kosack (talk) 08:29, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Okeydokes, you've done some excellent work here and I appreciate you wading through my comments with positivity. I'm very happy to support this now. Great stuff. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 11:17, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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