Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Kannada literature in the Western Chalukya Empire

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 22:50, 25 November 2008 [1].

Kannada literature in the Western Chalukya Empire[edit]

Nominator(s): Dineshkannambadi (talk)

I'm nominating this article for featured article because it meets all the criteria for it to become a FA. It is well cited. The article has been through a detailed PR by User:Ruhrfisch, User:Sundar, User:Michael Devore, User:Moni3 and User:Taxman. Image issues have been cleared by User:Elcobbola. The article has been copy edited by User:Michael Devore. The article covers an important epoch in the development of Kannada literature.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 14:27, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please check the dab links in the tool box. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:05, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Done.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 18:14, 8 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments -

~~Is the Iyer ref a book? If so, title should be in italics.~~

Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:20, 9 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, its a book. corrected format.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 17:26, 9 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Query Hi are you sure that "translation of the Sanskrit writing Kalyanakaraka by Pujyapada is the earliest writing on medicine prescribing an entirely vegetarian and non-alcoholic diet" I though that Pythagoreanism#Pythagorean vegetarianism was earlier. If it was an ancient Sanskrit document could we have an indication of its age in the article? Thanks, Ϣere Spiel Chequers 22:44, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- This was a wording issue, which I did not catch earlier. Karnataka Kalyanakaraka (1150) is the earliest writing on medicine in the Kannada language and was a translation of the Sanskrit writing Kalyanakaraka by Pujyapada. I am not sure about the dating of the original writing, though I am sure I can dig it up. Thanks for the catch.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 23:25, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - No problem, nicely fixed, dating of the sanskrit would be redundant to this article. Do you have any info on the numbers of people involved in this? I'm assuming that this is prior to the printing press so unless this literature was also transmitted orally the circulation would be quite low. But if you have any indication as to what proportion of the society was literate and how widely this literature was circulated at the time it would be worth adding to the article - unless I missed something it left me wondering whether this was a court phenomenon or something much wider. Ϣere Spiel Chequers 08:58, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    - The printing press came in the 19th century, so the transmission of knowledge to the common masses must have been mostly orally, untill the proliferation of paper (whose technology may have came from China) around the 14th century. Famous writings were however often copied by royal scribes for use/education in the various divisions (Vishaya) of the kingdom, on palm leaves in the early ages and later on paper. Scholars opine that Sanskrit writings by bilingual poets are more likely to be extant than their Kannada writings because of their "wider readership". So copies were being made. I dont have an idea what percentage were literate, though from my various readings it becomes clear that the upper caste Brahmins and many Kshatriyas communities considerd equal to the Brahmins, and some rich merchant classes had access to Gurukula type of higher education (in secular subjects). Lower level education (in secular subjects) and education in the native language (Kannada in this case) would certianly have been available to the masses. This is clear from the availability of hundreds of bilingual inscriptions (popular before 10th century), where info about royal geneology, accomplishments and such would be in Sanskrit but the actual land deed contract and tax/obligation info would be in Kannada. After 10th century, the local language became more prominent in all spheres. Over the period of medieval India, one often sees variations, some communities received formal higher education and some others falling of the priority list, though Brahmins remained a "constant".Dineshkannambadi (talk) 12:54, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support More examples, and perhaps some quotes, might improve the article, but it is well written & seem to cover the large subject well. Johnbod (talk) 18:27, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Very interesting read, very well written and referenced. I particularly appreciate your efforts in traveling across the state to obtain some of the images to complement the text in the article. Great job! Thanks AreJay (talk) 01:40, 19 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support - What breadth! These are the truly difficult articles to write on Wikipedia. Describing hundreds of years of literature! I'm impressed. I know very little about Indian literature, so I can't speak to the article's comprehensiveness, but I did feel that a good balance was struck between historical context and the descriptions of the literature. I felt that I was at least beginning to grasp why different groups of writers were addressing particular social issues at particular moments in time. The article also does a nice job of painting different literary movements in broad strokes (as well as presenting varying interpretations of them) and then detailing individual writers within those movements. Here are my small suggestions for improvement:

The dramatic effect given to the writing, the powerful language, the diction and the style maintained throughout the narration has earned Ranna a place among the immortals of Kannada literature. - Perhaps this is a little too much praise?

DK Done. Made less flowery.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 01:54, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Brahmashiva portrays contemporary life and beliefs of the people of the Kannada-speaking region and criticises Hinduism, the conversion of a Jain temple originally dedicated to the Tirthankar Chandrapraba in Kholapur into a Hindu temple deifying the goddess Mahalakshmi and the existence of religious cosmopolitanism within a household where family members followed multiple faiths. - I think this sentence needs to be broken up into two sentences. I hesitated to do it myself, however.

DK Done. Split the sentence.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 01:54, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Karnaparya's account of the life of the 22nd tirthankar Neminatha, the Neminathapurana (c. 1145) in champu metre, includes details of the Hindu epic Mahabharata and of the god Krishna from a Jain outlook.[98] Jagaddala Somanatha's Karnataka Kalyanakaraka (1150), a translation of the Sanskrit writing Kalyanakaraka by Pujyapada, is the earliest writing on medicine in Kannada. It prescribes an entirely vegetarian and non-alcoholic diet. - Why is this in the "Consolidation of grammar" section?

DK Only because of the time period it was written. I can move it up one sub-section if you so desire.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 01:54, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That might be better, yes. Awadewit (talk) 22:49, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

DK Done.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 02:14, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

~~I'm wondering how much the list of "Other poets" helps readers. Will these names someday be linked and have articles? If so, perhaps the list is helpful. If not, I would suggest pruning the list.~~

DK Pruned a bit. Yes, I hope someday, I find time to write about each one of them.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 01:54, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Johnbod above that some quotations would benefit the article - it seems a shame to have an article about literature and not quote any of that literature. What do you think of adding either a few quotations in the text or perhaps a quote box or two?

DK Would you like me to quote one poem (three liner or so) for each of the three great Vachana poets (Basavanna, Allama Prabhu and Akkamadevi). There is no shortage of their published poems.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 01:54, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds excellent. Awadewit (talk) 22:49, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

DK Done. I have added one poem per poet.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 01:42, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is a well-written, well-researched, and well-illustrated article. I have learned more from reading this article than almost any other FAC I have read - thank you! Awadewit (talk) 21:04, 23 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Image:Basava statue.jpg - This is the source of the cropped image of the statue in the article. We need to know that the uploader created it - some sort of declaration such as "selfmade" or "I took this photo". Could you leave a message for the uploader and ask him to clarify this? Awadewit (talk) 21:11, 23 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

DK Switched to uncropped image which has original uploader's name.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 02:02, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We still need a statement from the uploader that says "selfmade" or "I took this photo". Awadewit (talk) 22:49, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

DK I have removed the image. Looking around for the right one.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 01:42, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I will take care of all your concerns. Thank you.Dineshkannambadi (talk) 01:14, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.