Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Killswitch Engage/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 17:05, 27 February 2010 [1].

Killswitch Engage[edit]

Killswitch Engage (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Nominator(s): TheWeakWilled (T * G) 20:11, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Toolbox

Article is reliably sourced and I believe exceeds FA criteria. All issues from last FAC have been resloved. TheWeakWilled (T * G) 20:11, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments. No dab links, no dead external links. Alt text present and good. Ucucha 20:38, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Media Review

Media review: Five images:

  • License: PD-self. No reason to doubt it.
  • Quality: Good.
  • License: CC-BY-SA-2.0. Verified.
  • Quality: Good.
  • File:Kse-2006.jpg: Commons image of Jones and lead guitarist Adam Dutkiewicz in concert.
  • License: CC-BY-SA-2.0. Verified.
  • Quality: Poor. The security guard is better lit than the lead singer. The article includes two superior images of Jones and two superior images of Dutkiewicz. This is the sort of image that belongs in a Wikipedia article only if there is no comparably informative image, free or fair use, available. It should be removed from this Featured Article candidate.
  • License: CC-SA-3.0. Well evidenced.
  • Quality: Acceptable...just barely. Shows backdrop with logo and relatively spare stage setup. Image size already set--would probably be more satisfying if set larger.
  • License: CC-BY-2.0. Verified.
  • Quality: Good.

No audio samples. What? Really? Please provide one or two samples typical of their metalcore style so as to significantly increase readers' understanding of what the band sounds like. Perhaps one with Jones and one with original lead singer Jesse Leach.—DCGeist (talk) 10:42, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Removed crappy image and added media files. The only reason why I had that image was because it was the oldest image that I could find (that could be on wikipedia) where you can see the band, as opposed to the band's crowd. Can you check the media that I uploaded? It was the first time I uploaded a sound clip, and I don't think that an acceptable source would be "My music library." TheWeakWilled (T * G) 23:07, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Excellent work. I think the article looks much better with that image removed. And very well done with your sound samples. Yes, you do need to correct the "Source" information in the rationales. What we want there is the name of the respective source album and the name of the copyright holder (Roadrunner Records). It's also good to identify the songwriter(s)—you can add that information to the "Author" field. I'm afraid there's one other issue here, which applies to almost all sound samples: Per our rules, "Samples must be of reduced quality from the original. A Vorbis quality setting of 0 (roughly 64kbps) is usually sufficient." (In practice, the 0 setting will produce an output of anywhere from 58 to 74 kbps—that's the customary target range.) At 158 and 139 kbps, these samples are probably of too high fidelity. Can you rerecord?—DCGeist (talk) 02:51, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hmm. Given the density of the music and the style of the mix, the lower fidelity version really doesn't do a fair job of representing the sound. Vorbis quality 0 is "usually sufficient", but not always. This is such a case. Again, for the rationales: "Source"--add the title of the album, or whatever was the direct source of the sound sample. "Author"--it's good to list the band members and their instruments; it's better to name the songwriters--that's part of how songs are professionally credited. (Of course, it's possible that Killswitch Engage as a whole gets the songwriting credit. Is that the case?) Here's a couple good examples in different styles (the producer credit in the first, again, is nice but less important): File:Iwanttoholdyourhandsample.ogg, File:Ramones-Blitzkrieg Bop.ogg.—DCGeist (talk) 01:06, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should I revert to the old version then? I added the producer (the guitarist in both cases). I don't know the exact songwriters for "My Curse" since I only have the CDs (no linear notes), but in their live DVD, on the cover they give credit to all the members for writing the songs. Thus, "My Last Serenade" has the 100% accurate songwriters, but "My Curse" I would have to make an educated guess for. If really necessary, I could run to a store this weekend and see if I can pick up another copy though. TheWeakWilled (T * G) 01:18, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, you don't need to do that. You've put in a good faith effort and, at this point, your sample descriptions are already substantially more informative than those accompanying many currently Featured Articles. As for the samples themselves, I believe the old versions stretch but don't break the bounds of our policy, while the new versions are simply inadequate. I want to tell you to aim for a midpoint in between the old and new versions--high enough fidelity for a fair representation, but low enough to respect the spirit of our policy...but as this is subjective territory, it's your call.—DCGeist (talk) 01:34, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tomorrow I'll set up a new version, maybe around 76kbps to see if that'll do it. If not, I'll just revert to the first version. TheWeakWilled (T * G) 01:54, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:55, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Re-fixed. TheWeakWilled (T * G) 02:20, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Former members need a source. There is a claim of a former member Pete Cortese, but this is not referenced in the current article. If that former member is correct then I'm also surprised the article does not at least mention all the bands former members in the prose. It seems incomplete in this regards so maybe this article is vandalised or something I don't understand. SunCreator (talk) 18:20, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think he was just a session guitar player on a couple albums, and can't find any songs credited to him, so I removed his name. Also added cite for Phil Labonte earlier in the article. TheWeakWilled (T * G) 23:04, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Clicking play to listen to music sample causes browser to make page wider. Can this be sorted, I'm using Firefox 3.5. SunCreator (talk) 18:20, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • It does this for all audio samples that are aligned on the right, a MW problem. TheWeakWilled (T * G) 23:04, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Okay. SunCreator (talk) 00:16, 11 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Have amended music sample from using {{listen}} to {{listen300}}, this is browser compatibile. If this is not suitable please revert and let me know why on my talk page. Thanks. SunCreator (talk) 18:16, 12 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Source comments What makes this reliable?

RB88 (T) 02:18, 20 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • done Removed now dead link, removed first cite. The information in the first cite was removed, it didn't have much to do with the band, just saying that a similarly named band was unrelated to this band. TheWeakWilled (T * G) 02:37, 20 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose on prose. That said, I am happy to support once the prose issues are fixed, and they should be relatively easy to fix. Auntieruth55 (talk) 20:02, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

source check looks good.
I had a question about Blabbermouth's fairness, but not its reliability. Based on how the site is used, it looks okay.
Images
I'm okay with images based on the current review. If that review change, or new issues arise,....
Prose needs work
lead: this lead is short and says nothing about the clean style, or whatever elements make their metalcore different from other metalcore. You go into that later, so it needs at least a mention -- sentence or two -- here. Also, I think you could summarize the staffing problems in some way: The band's membership has changed in the decade since its founding as illness, changes in life-situation, and new interests have drawn the men in different directions.
First paragraph, first section: this is only 4 sentences, and they are confusing. As I understand what you've written, you're saying: In 1998, the band Overcast and Aftershock broke up. Overcast bassist Mike D'Antonio and Aftershock guitarist Adam Dutkiewicz jammed together, and Tukiewicz recruited another Aftershock guitarist, Joel Stroetzel, and the vocalist Jesse Leach of Nothing Stays Gold to join their jamming sessions.  ??? What kinds of bands were Overcst and Aftershock? Were Adam and Mike long-term friends? rivals? long-time metalcore players? Had they started professional life in other kinds of bands?
The you go directly from jamming to the naming of the band. Obviously somewhere in here they decided to formalize their jamming sessions into a band, and then name the band. Did they find their distinctive style during these sessions? We need to know something about the decision to create a new band. Then tell us about the naming.

:Confusion: signed to label, self-titled, etc. What a subheading!! The first paragraph is also confusing. How about something like:

The band released its debut album, Killswitch Engage, in 2000. Although the album was neither a financial nor critical success, it attracted the interest of Carl Severson, who worked at Roadrunner Records at the time. Severson handed Killswitch Engage to several Roadrunner representatives. Mike Gitter, a Roadrunner A&R, attended several of the band's performances and offered the band a recording contract with Roadrunner. Realizing Roadrunner had the resources to promote and distribute Killswitch Engage releases, the band accepted his offer, declining several offers from smaller labels.
...Alive or just breathing took its name from the song, Just Barely Breathing...next sentence is beautiful,probably the best-written one in the article...then the sentence with this in it: ,which was written and recorded for two guitarists,. .... what was? The album's release? I don't understand this. The we have a staff change. Then we have a review of the album.
Then you discuss another staff change. (I suggest putting the earlier one here). It's unclear what the cause of this was. He got married, so he was depressed????? Do you really mean to relate his depression to his marriage? And why was he screaming? I gather this is a metal feature, but this needs to be clearer.
overall, I think this could go through a really good copy edit, so that your text says what you mean. Right now I'm just guessing at a lot of it, and, although I know nothing about metalcore, it should be relatively clear to me what the article means, even if I'm not a follower. Auntieruth55 (talk) 20:02, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Made some prose changes. Thank you for taking the time to look at the prose! TheWeakWilled (T * G) 21:13, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
As for the fairness of blabbermouth (you didn't elaborate much), it is hosted on roadrunnerrecords servers (the band's label) but is completely fair, see Blabbermouth. Just if you were wondering. TheWeakWilled (T * G) 21:19, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
yes, I realized that it was connected to Roadrunner. That's why I was concerned about its potential partisanship.
what does this mean: The band's name originated from the break-up of Overcast and Aftershock, using aspects that pushed and elevated the band and putting the combination into a new category.
I've corrected a couple of grammatical and punctuation errors, and attempted to fix a flagrant jargon-ism. (the record did not chart). Keep working on the problems. Looks much better already. Auntieruth55 (talk) 22:51, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't add that, and it was too ambiguous for me to decode. Removed it. TheWeakWilled (T * G) 01:01, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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