Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Level Mountain/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 9 July 2021 [1].

Level Mountain[edit]

Nominator(s): Volcanoguy 19:54, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article is a comprehensive and well-researched account of Level Mountain, one of the largest volcanoes in Canada and one of the more obscure volcanoes on Earth. In late 2015, I rewrote and expanded this article greatly which was followed by a lot of copyediting that has lasted into this year. I have significant knowledge regarding the volcanoes of British Columbia, having researched them for the last 14 years or so. I have also brought other BC volcano articles up to FA class in the past and look forward to bringing this article about Level Mountain up to that standard. Cheers, Volcanoguy 19:54, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image review[edit]

Done. Volcanoguy 01:09, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Level Mountain topo cropped.jpg How was this map created? Is it automatic generation or is there any creative element? I think this would make a better lead image than the one you currently have, as it's much more clear (t · c) buidhe 00:33, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I have never seen an FA article with a topographic map as a lead image. It also doesn't show the entire mountain. As for the map, it is based on SRTM data provided freely by NASA and processed in QGIS with World Imagery texture type TOPO. Volcanoguy 16:39, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Jo-Jo Eumerus[edit]

Going point-by-point through WP:WIAFA:

  • 1a: With the caveat that I am not necessarily known for my prose skills, this seems fine to me.
  • 1b: As far as I can tell, every topic I'd expect to be covered is covered here. Maybe details on climbing/mountaineering would be cool but in my experience reliable sources for such topics are hard to come by.
There is nothing about climbing/mountaineering at Level Mountain, which isn't surprising due to its remoteness. Volcanoguy 15:10, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • 1c: I see some sources mentioned here are not used in the article - from the summaries I think many say too little about Level Mountain or only bespeak technical details, but I assume we checked this? I have to AGF on some sources as I don't have access to them. Inline citations used through the article.
Yes I have already checked those sources. Most mention Level Mountain only briefly and aren't very useful to use as sources. A few in that list are already used in the article. Volcanoguy 15:30, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • 1d: I see no indication of NPOV problems, keeping the caveat about source access mentioned above in mind.
  • 1e: Fits.
  • 1f: The "drop a couple of sentences into Google" technique finds nothing untoward.
  • 2a: Seems to fit; topics mentioned in the article also in the lead.
  • 2b: Seems to fit.
  • 2c: I see some citation errors and some citations have retrieved dates and others don't.
What citation errors and citations are you referring to? Volcanoguy 15:34, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Several show "Cite journal requires |journal=" errors, such as Holland 1976 and Gabrielse 1982. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:34, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
How about now? I didn't have those errors so I'm not sure if they're still there. Volcanoguy 19:35, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • 3: I think the ALT text on most images here is a little too much about what the image is and a little too little about what information it conveys. Does File:Level Mountain topo cropped.jpg have a source map? Images are appropriate for the sections they are in.
The map is based on SRTM data provided freely by NASA and processed in QGIS with World Imagery texture type TOPO. Volcanoguy 16:39, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I did some improvements to the alt texts. Volcanoguy 19:35, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • 4: Seems to fit.

Parking an uncommitted !vote here for the moment. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:19, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

OK, provisional support here. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 17:32, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ceranthor[edit]

  • Lead
  • "It is located 50 km (31 mi) north-northwest" - should be endash for north northwest
Done. Volcanoguy 23:40, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "extensive north-south trending volcanic zone" same note as above.
Done. Volcanoguy 18:55, 16 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "An extensive wild animal community thrives in the area of Level Mountain." - a very vague statement to make; I think this would read much better as "A wide variety of animal species thrives in the area of Level Mountain, with caribou being the most abundant."
Agreed. Volcanoguy 19:59, 16 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Humans had arrived at Level Mountain by the early 1900s, followed by geological studies of the mountain from the 1920s to the 1970s." - does including "had" before arrived add anything here? I'm not sure it does
Removed. Volcanoguy 01:32, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Geology
  • "The rocks of these two terranes are displaced and autochthonous in nature.[7]" - maybe misunderstanding, but aren't displaced and autochthonous opposites? If so, what are you trying to convey with this sentence
You understood it correctly. It just meant that the Yukon–Tanana and Cassiar terranes consist of both displaced and autochthonous rocks. Since that sentence isn't needed, I've deleted it. Volcanoguy 16:34, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The most common and best mechanism used to explain NCVP volcanic activity" - best according to whom?
Rewarded. Volcanoguy 05:01, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This volcanic edifice forms a broad, oval-shaped, north-south trending lava plateau" - same note as above
Done. Volcanoguy 18:55, 16 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "although some estimates of its areal extent are as much as 3,000 km2 (1,200 sq mi).[3][4]" - is there any brief explanation in these two sources about the discrepancy here? If so, I think it's worth noting here
No there isn't. Volcanoguy 04:35, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The other planar fracture, Nahlin, is an east-dipping thrust fault" - what do you mean by east-dipping? Unclear to me.
Dipping is already linked in the article; see strike and dip. It's basically a thrust fault that is tilting towards the east. Volcanoguy 17:21, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "A series of U-shaped valleys have been carved into the volcano" - Since you say "a series OF ... valleys" this should be "has been carved"
I don't think so. "A series of" implies that there's more than one, thus plural. Volcanoguy 15:35, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Level Mountain has experienced volcanic eruptions sporadically for the last 15 million years, making it the most persistent volcano of the NCVP." - Not sure how I feel about the use of persistent here; is there a better term we could use instead? Maybe the longest living or something more along those lines?
Replaced "persistent" with "long-lived". Volcanoguy 23:50, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Renewed volcanism sent a series of massive ankaramite lava flows over the second unit and have a total thickness of 76 m (249 ft). " - second half of the sentence does not match grammatically
Reworded to "Renewed volcanism deposited a 76 m (249 ft) thick sequence of massive ankaramite lava flows over the second unit." Volcanoguy 01:47, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "These lava flows, comprising the third unit, are spheroidally weathered." - spheroidally weathered? What does that mean?
Linked. Volcanoguy 03:14, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The liquidus temperatures of these flows were in excess of 1,200 °C (2,190 °F) with viscosities as low as 100,000 poise." - Link liquidus
Done. Volcanoguy 04:46, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Geography
  • "The caribou at Level Mountain form a herd that is part of a larger population ranging west of the Dease River " - ranging doesn't work here
Changed "ranging" to "extending". Volcanoguy 01:17, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Human history
  • "there is a human population of more than 630 who live within 100 km (62 mi) of the volcano.[2]" - any more details on this?
No. Volcanoguy 02:56, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Level Mountain was demonstrated in the 1920s as a possible source" - need a better verb than demonstrated
What would be a better word to use? Volcanoguy 21:46, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The recognition of Level Mountain as a long-lived volcano in contrast to the small Tuya field volcanoes has given it status as a separate volcanic centre.[27]" - I think you're missing an "its" after "it" and before "status"
I don't think so. Volcanoguy 15:18, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Accessibility
  • Looks fine.
  • Monitoring and volcanic hazards
  • "Like other volcanoes in the NCVP, Level Mountain is not monitored closely enough by the Geological Survey of Canada to ascertain how active its magma system is." - too wordy, just say "it is not monitored closely enough to ascertain its activity level"
Done. Volcanoguy 00:48, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

All this from my first pass. Think the geology section is a bit jargon-y and dense for a lay reader. Will try to keep making small changes while these are discussed/addressed. ceranthor 00:37, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Ceranthor: I've already tried avoiding jargon as much as I could but it's not possible. Geology is a technical subject, something not everyone can understand. This ain't Simple English Wikipedia. Volcanoguy 02:29, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support will try and run through and copyedit once more, but I think this is well-written and comprehensive. ceranthor 19:38, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from TRM[edit]

Jargon will be a problem. Several other similar FACs have stalled/failed on their inability to bring explanations within the article to the readers, and that's a MOS issue, one which a FAC co-ord has picked up on. You'll need to expect to be asked to explain a lot of the things you believe are "common terms" within this article I'm afraid, and while I note you refute that position above, it's currently non-negotiable per MOS. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 00:56, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

For what it's worth, footnotes like on Huaynaputina that explain certain jargon terms might resolve the issue. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:05, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man: What terms need to be explained exactly? I could add footnotes. Volcanoguy 14:55, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Infobox has many entries separated from their references by a space.
That is an issue with {{Infobox mountain}} itself that I cannot fix. I have brought it up on the template's talk page. Volcanoguy 16:05, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Spaces have been removed. Volcanoguy 05:17, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "E-W." shouldn't that be an en-dash?
Fixed. Volcanoguy 16:05, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "lava flows; these lavas created" no need for "lavas".
Deleted. Volcanoguy 16:05, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "includes slab windows, mantle plumes, crustal extension and deglaciation." I think I can guess at what the last one means, but the others need explanation.
I've deleted that sentence since it isn't important. Volcanoguy 18:32, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "discontinuous breccias, sporadic tuff horizons and local lenses of fluvial, lacustrine and" way over-jargon.
Deleted. Volcanoguy 00:30, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "that local streams flow on" on which local streams flow.
Fixed. Volcanoguy 16:05, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "appears remarkably flat" tone issue there, is that someone's opinion?
I fail to see what is wrong with the tone here. It isn't someone's opinion. Volcanoguy 17:14, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I have never heard of an encyclopedic stating that something was remarkable. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 17:22, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Would "unusually flat" work? Volcanoguy 17:49, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Smaller but related volcanoes" excuse my ignorance but what makes them "related"?
They were formed by the same geologic processes and are part of the same volcanic zone. Volcanoguy 16:05, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Phonolites are vesicular and pumiceous in nature, although phonolites with trachytic texture are also present" essentially meaningless to someone without clicking away or without expert knowledge.
Added notes for "pumiceous" and "trachytic". Volcanoguy 20:56, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "of Tertiary basalts along" odd time to link basalt.
Agreed. I have moved the link to a spot earlier in the article. Volcanoguy 16:05, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "stone stripping" what is that?
I am no expert but I assume it is the fracturing of rocks as a result of freezing and thawing of groundwater. There appears to be no article for "stone stripping", nor could I find a definition. So I do not know what to do here. Volcanoguy 16:35, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Suggest we find an expert to explain it? The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 17:23, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I looked at the source again and it appears "stone stripping" was just a typo on my part for "stone striping". I have fixed this and added a link to the stone stripe article. Volcanoguy 19:33, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "confined to nivation and solifluction" more unexplained and unguessable jargon.
Added notes for both nivation and solifluction. Volcanoguy 21:53, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That takes me to Volcanic history. Hopefully you can begin to see the kinds of terminology jungles that are in here which are intractable to all but the most learned readers, which contravenes MOS. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 12:23, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: I have added notes all throughout the article. Volcanoguy 04:17, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "0.0001 km3..." etc, why are we using such tiny fractions of cubic km when we could more easily (and better for the readers) use cubic metres? Especially when later you have "to 94,000,000 m3 (3.3×109 cu ft) in the" which arguably could be in cubic km!
Because that is what the sources use. Volcanoguy 18:52, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
But that's fine for the sources, it makes no logical sense here. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 19:41, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Volcanoguy 20:39, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the mafic shield-building stage.[3] ... Lava flows of the mafic shield-building stage" reptitive.
Fixed. Volcanoguy 20:00, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "columnar jointed" should be hyphenated.
Done. Volcanoguy 18:56, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the headwaters of Kakuchuya Creek were the site of" struggling to parse this.
Problem? Volcanoguy 22:53, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "peralkaline trachyte and comendite" do these not have articles?
Yes they are already linked. Volcanoguy 18:44, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "0.0117 million" why not 11,700 years? (although the linked article says 11.650...)
I did that for consistency since all the other dates are in millions of years. Volcanoguy 20:17, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The Holocene article says the epoch began approximately 11,650 cal years Before Present but 1950 is considered the commencement year of Before Present. So 11,650 cal years BP + 71 years = 11,721 cal years. Volcanoguy 21:49, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "a subsurface horizon " I don't understand this.
How is this difficult to understand? Horizon is already linked in that paragraph. Subsurface is below the surface. Volcanoguy 22:09, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "temperatures and precipitation gradients" temperature (singular).
Fixed. Volcanoguy 19:00, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "June 22, 1900 from" comma after 1900.
Done. Volcanoguy 20:57, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "there is a human population of more than 630 who" repetitive, perhaps "but more than 630 individuals live..." or similar avoid repeating "human population".
Done. Volcanoguy 20:53, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "30,000 ha" needs adj=on to add the required hyphen before "acre".
Done. Volcanoguy 19:22, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "More definite evidence" definite or definitive?
Definitive. Volcanoguy 19:37, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the crash mapping program" what's one of those?
Removed "crash". Volcanoguy 23:23, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "December 21, 1944 as " comma after 1944.
Done. Volcanoguy 20:57, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "August 14, 1952 upon" ditto.
Done. Volcanoguy 20:57, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "of 1890s fame" doesn't feel encyclopedic in tone.
Reworded. Volcanoguy 21:26, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd expect ISBNs to be consistently formatted.
All ISBNs are formatted the way sources use them. Volcanoguy 19:14, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just convert them to one consistent format. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 19:42, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
How do I convert them? Volcanoguy 20:39, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
isbn.org has a 10 to 13 and reverse converter. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 20:31, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The Rambling Man, I've converted all ISBNs to use 10-digits. Volcanoguy 21:49, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's it. Apologies for the delay in getting back to this. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 09:35, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

  • #1, 4, 5, 17, 25: Add archived URLs as backups?
The source templates do not allow archived URLs. Volcanoguy 14:56, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No it isn't. I've linked it to the correct article. Volcanoguy 14:51, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • #8, 9, 18, 23, 26, 32, 33: Retrieval dates not needed, since you're relying on the archived URL.
Removed. Volcanoguy 16:02, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • #10: I'd link Canada Department of Mines to Minister of Mines (Canada). And this is a 95-year-old work; any chance it's available online?
Linked. I couldn't find it online. Volcanoguy 15:02, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Where did you find the copy of the work you relied on? At a library? --Usernameunique (talk) 04:42, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • #10, 13, 15, 19, 29: Are there any identifiers for these works, such as OCLCs or ISSNs, that you can add?
No there isn't. Volcanoguy 15:49, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I was able to find an OCLC for at least one of these by searching on WorldCat. Odds are, if a copy is in a library, it has an OCLC. Take a look at WorldCat. --Usernameunique (talk) 01:52, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I was referring only to ISSNs; didn't know what OCLCs were. Volcanoguy 02:02, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Usernameunique: I was able to find OCLCs for all of these sources. Volcanoguy 03:25, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Volcanoguy, OCLCs aren't worth much if they aren't connected to books held by libraries; their main use is that they link you to a list of which libraries hold a book. Thus, for Bilsland 1971, I would use OCLC 1131206258 (listing 20 libraries) rather than OCLC 866011885 (listing one library). The other three you added aren't linked to libraries at all. But there is another OCLC available for Gabrielse 1998 (linked to a copy held by Stanford). Hamilton & Scarfe 1977 does not have an OCLC linked to a library, but this is because the work is miscited; it is actually a chapter within a book, and, as luck would have it, the book is available online (with a DOI, to boot). Mark 1987 (for which you did not actually add an OCLC) does not appear to have one—understandably, since it appears to be grey literature—but it is available online here, so a link should be added. --Usernameunique (talk) 04:42, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. Volcanoguy 06:16, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • #11, 14: Are "S.", "T.", and "G." middle initials? If so, they should go in the |first= parameter, not the |last= parameter.
Fixed. Volcanoguy 16:10, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Linked. I'm surprised I missed that. Volcanoguy 15:04, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • #23: I'm a bit confused by this one. Should the Archives of Manitoba be the publisher, and "Hudson’s Bay Company Archives - Biographical Sheets" be the website? Also, the link is still live here, so reliance on the archived URL (other than as a backup) isn't needed.
Fixed. Volcanoguy 16:18, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • #27: Does the publisher really have the exact same name as the journal?
That's what it seems like according to the American Journal of Science article. Volcanoguy 15:41, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • #29: What is Ash Fall?
Ash Fall was a newsletter of the Volcanology Division of the Geological Association of Canada. Volcanoguy 15:09, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Added the url and archived url for this source. Volcanoguy 03:27, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • #31: Is a library really the publisher?
Fixed. Volcanoguy 15:37, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • #2, 6, 10, 13, 15, 16, 27, 28: Why initials rather than first names? I generally prefer first names over initials; it can become a real pain to try to figure out later on who initialed authors are.
Simply because the sources use initials rather than first names. Volcanoguy 15:13, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hamilton 1981: Same points re: initials, and identifiers such as OCLCs.
  • General: For works with multiple authors, you might get some traction with the "|name-list-style=amp" parameter. Up to you.

This version looked at. --Usernameunique (talk) 03:34, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Volcanoguy, comments above. --Usernameunique (talk) 01:52, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Volcanoguy, further comments above. In going through the second comment, I realized that it appears a number of the materials you cited are available online, even if they don't have links in the article. Some examples are mentioned above, but there are more, such as Fenger et al. 1986, which is available here. I would go through your references again, to make sure that what is available online carries a link. After you do that I'll take another look. --Usernameunique (talk) 04:42, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I was able to find many of the sources online but not all of them. I have added urls and dois to those I found online. Volcanoguy 06:16, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi The Rambling Man, just a reminder while I was checking this. No rush. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:23, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Gog the Mild, the sources are generally good shape, but I'm going to take a further look at them and follow up. --Usernameunique (talk) 13:03, 16 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Volcanoguy, I was able to find a number of the remaining sources online quite easily. I've added those that I found to the article—in the future, it would help if you made an effort to add URLs/DOIs to sources as you write articles, rather than attempting to do so at the end. For #18, is the cited work this source? If so, I would add the URL, and correct the page range. --Usernameunique (talk) 05:08, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Usernameunique, yes that is the correct source. I've added the url and correct page number (not sure how that happened). Volcanoguy 20:03, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Great. Gog the Mild, just an update that I'm signed off on sources. --Usernameunique (talk) 20:06, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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