Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Logan (novel)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 16 February 2023 [1].

Logan (novel)[edit]

Nominator(s): Dugan Murphy (talk) 03:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

An 1822 novel of sex and violence on the colonial American frontier so incoherent "it is like the raving of a bedlamite" and so emotionally intense that "You are fagged and fretted to death, long and long before you foresee the termination." Yet studded with pearls of genius that meaningfully foreshadowed successors Poe, Whitman, and Hawthorne. Just read the plot summary ... if you dare, for it makes no. Damn. Sense. Awesome, right? This nomination, if successful, will be my 7th FAC/FLC of an article I produced from scratch – the 3rd about a John Neal (writer) novel. Having applied what I've learned from past nomination reviews, I'm confident about this article's quality. I'm nevertheless looking forward to hearing what comments people have, given that these articles always improve considerably with critique. Thank you in advance for your time! Dugan Murphy (talk) 03:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Wehwalt[edit]

  • Colonial Virginia frontier" I'm not quite sure what this is supposed to convey to the reader in terms of location.
Reworded. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:57, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can some of the repeated mentions of sex and violence in the first PP be consolidated?
Done. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:57, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Logan is Neal's second novel," Consider "was"
Sure. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:57, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "provided considerable influence to future American writers" maybe "influenced later American writers"?
Done. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:57, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The novel is considered important to scholars studying the roles of Gothic literature" Should "to" be "by"?
Yes. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:57, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "stupefies" How?
Removed. The plot summary was too long anyway. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:57, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • In real life it would be the Governor of Virginia, not Jamestown (and I believe the capital was Williamsburg by then). Is it different in the book?
Reworded to remove Jamestown. Jamestown is mentioned a little after this scene, but I realize that's not connected to this. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:57, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "royal family history" Was George Clarence royal then? This isn't made clear.
Changed to British nobility, which seems more appropriate. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:57, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Harold's father, George of Salisbury, left children in England to live as Logan among the Indigenous Mingo tribe in America." This sentence is difficult to understand.
Reworded. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:57, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Or it may be that Neal meant for this mass death scene at the novel's conclusion to symbolize the American Revolution's function of renewing this agglomeration of colonial-era American nations into US nationhood.[19]" I might simplify and simply state that the revolution helped combine the separate states into a single American nation".
Reworded. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:57, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "but then channels into a war he leads the Mingos into against the English." The double use of "into" especially when juxtaposed with "against" is a bit awkward.
Reworded. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:57, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • " can be read as a breakdown of literary constraints," possibly "disregard" for "breakdown". More generally, what I read you as saying in this passage, was that just as the American colonists had to throw off British rule to form a distinctly American government, American writers had to throw off British literary conventions to form a distinctly American literature. You could say it better than you do.
Reworded. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:57, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • " but more recently" maybe "but most recently"?
Done. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:57, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and had worked for years on refining his theory or poetry to the point that he came to see the novel as the highest form of literature, able to communicate a poetic prose superior to formal poetry." Maybe theory of poetry was meant?
Precisely! Done. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:57, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "His next (also anonymously-published) novel after that, Randolph, includes this criticism of Logan from the protagonist: "Nobody can read it through, deliberately, as novels are to be read. You are fagged and fretted to death, long and long before you foresee the termination."[85] Two years after that," A timeframe would be good.
Done. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:57, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's it for now. Interesting article.--Wehwalt (talk) 19:28, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for taking the time to read it through and write out some comments. I believe they are all addressed. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:57, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Wehwalt (talk) 21:14, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image review[edit]

  • Suggest scaling up the Sons of Liberty illustration
I downloaded the image, cropped the border, and updated the image using "Upload a new version of this file". That went through, but the image still displays with the border. Then I tried uploading the cropped image as Boston_Tea_Party_Currier_colored_crop.jpeg, but the Upload Wizard tells me it is a duplicate of Boston Tea Party Currier colored.jpg. Do you have advice on how to proceed? Dugan Murphy (talk) 03:32, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nevermind. Figured it out. Dugan Murphy (talk) 18:51, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Statue_of_Chief_Logan_the_Orator_(Logan,_West_Virginia).jpg: what's the copyright status of the statue?
I ended up swapping it out for File:Logan finding his murdered family LCCN2005683513.jpg. Dugan Murphy (talk) 03:32, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Boston_Tea_Party_Currier_colored.jpg needs a US tag. Ditto File:The_Pioneers_illustration_by_Darley.jpg
Both changed. Dugan Murphy (talk) 03:32, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:John_Neal_by_Sarah_Miriam_Peale,_c._1823,_oil_on_canvas_-_Portland_Museum_of_Art_-_Portland,_Maine_-_DSC04059.jpg: when is the first known publication of this image? Nikkimaria (talk) 20:23, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Funny you should ask. When we had this conversation precisely one year ago, I said that the earliest I could find it on public display is 2013. We then decided to switch the copyright tag to PD-US-unpublished. Dugan Murphy (talk) 03:32, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reviewing the images! I believe these issues are all addressed, except scaling the Tea Party image. I'd appreciate your advice on that. Dugan Murphy (talk) 03:32, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Third-party comment: It looks like you successfully cropped out the border on the image. If you are still seeing it, it is probably a caching issue in your browser. --RL0919 (talk) 14:41, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! You are correct. It seems that all of the image review comments are addressed. Dugan Murphy (talk) 18:51, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The primary image reviewer was Nikkimaria and I just made a comment, but since you asked:
  • It appears that the issues raised previously have been addressed.
  • I tweaked the license for File:Boston_Tea_Party_Currier_colored.jpg to PD-art-old-100-expired, which is more specific to the case.
  • The swapped-in File:Logan finding his murdered family LCCN2005683513.jpg is appropriately licensed.
  • All images have alt text, but some of it is unnecessarily verbose compared to the preferred approach. User:Dugan Murphy, I would suggest trimming these to no more than a sentence each.
I was considering doing a full review, but other distractions make that unlikely, so that's my (semi-accidental) image review. --RL0919 (talk) 15:25, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, RL0919! I just trimmed the alt text. I believe all the issues that you and Nikkimaria raised are addressed. Dugan Murphy (talk) 16:47, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments[edit]

  • "Logan is Neal's second novel," => "Logan was Neal's second novel,"
Done! Dugan Murphy (talk) 03:34, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's all I got on the lead. Apologies, I need to drop off now, but I will endeavour to look at the rest later today or tomorrow -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:26, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I look forward to more comments. Dugan Murphy (talk) 03:34, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Harold learns his father left behind" => "Harold learns that his father left behind"
Done. Dugan Murphy (talk) 18:41, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "when your nation was a collossus" - is that how that last word is spelt in the book? If so, I would suggest adding [sic] given that it isn't the correct spelling
That's a typo. Fixed! Dugan Murphy (talk) 18:41, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Logan of real life is an Indigenous leader of the Mingo people" => "The Logan of real life was an Indigenous leader of the Mingo people"
Done! Dugan Murphy (talk) 01:10, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Or it may be that Neal" - starting a sentence with "Or" does not read well, suggest changing it to "Alternatively,"
Done! Dugan Murphy (talk) 01:10, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Logan is Neal's second novel, but his first of notable success" => "Logan was Neal's second novel, but his first of notable success"
Done! Dugan Murphy (talk) 01:10, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "astonishment that the still life of the Pioneers," - title should be in italics
Done! Dugan Murphy (talk) 01:10, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "noting that Logan, along with Neal's subsequent novels Seventy-Six and Brother Jonathan are" => "noting that Logan and Neal's subsequent novels Seventy-Six and Brother Jonathan are" -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:54, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Done! Dugan Murphy (talk) 01:10, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for the comments! I believe they are all addressed. Dugan Murphy (talk) 01:10, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Dabberoni15[edit]

Great article, Dugan. I only have a few points left that I didn't change when I copyedited the article a couple days ago, and then I can give it my support.

  • "John Neal wrote Logan as white American fiction authors were beginning to look toward American Indians as a dominant source of inspiration" => "John Neal wrote Logan as white American authors were beginning to look toward American Indians as a dominant source of inspiration"
  • "Harold calling for America's Indigenous nations to unify against British colonization seems to parallel calls by Anglo-Americans for revolution" => "Harold calling for America's Indigenous nations to unify against British colonization seemingly parallels calls by Anglo-Americans for revolution"
  • "The Logan of real life was an Indigenous leader of the Mingo people" => "The historical Logan was an Indigenous leader of the Mingo people"
  • "This event, sometimes referred to by scholars as a failed seduction and sometimes as an attempted rape" => "This event, which has alternatively been described by scholars as either a failed seduction or an attempted rape"
  • "but most recently, the violence committed by Anglo-American colonizers against Native Americans" => "but most recently, that which has been committed by Anglo-American colonizers against Native Americans"
  • "His depiction of public executions in the novel may have factored into the US movement to remove them to private settings" => "His depiction of public executions in the novel may have factored into the national movement to remove them to private settings"
  • "In 1821, Neal approached well-known Philadelphia publishers Carey and Lea with the manuscript of Logan" => "In 1821, Neal approached well-known Philadelphia-based publishers Carey and Lea with the manuscript of Logan"
  • "Despite the considerable influence it had on future American writers" => "Despite the considerable influence it had on successive generations of American writers"
  • "Most modern scholars agree that Logan is too incoherent to enjoy" => "The majority of modern scholars agree that Logan is too incoherent to enjoy"

@Dabberoni15: Thank you for reading through the article again and coming up with these comments! I have addressed them all. Dugan Murphy (talk) 14:16, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - Excellent read. Very interesting article on something I had never heard of before. - SchroCat (talk) 23:13, 6 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

  • I'll start on this one shortly. Harrias (he/him) • talk 10:29, 10 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • All citations are consistently formatted in an appropriate style.
  • All sources used appear to be to high-quality, reliable sources.
  • Searches in all the usual places did not reveal any glaring omissions.
  • Almost all the sources used are either offline, or behind subscription paywalls that I can't access. The nominator has four previous FAs with a good track record, so I'm happy to AGF.
  • Earwig reveals no concerns.

Happy to pass this. Harrias (he/him) • talk 11:56, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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