Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Red-capped parrot/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 22:44, 30 September 2018 [1].

Red-capped parrot[edit]

Nominator(s): Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:47, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Another bird article. This time alot of help from @Cygnis insignis:, which has been much appreciated. As has the GA review. Have at it. Cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:47, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Jens Lallensack[edit]

Nice to see a bird again. First comments below:

  • The red-capped parrot was first described by German naturalist Heinrich Kuhl as Psittacus spurius in 1820,[3] from an immature specimen collected in Albany – sounds a bit as this would be the only specimen available to him, but he surely must have seen live ones.
not necessarily. many of the bird species of this era were described in Europe from a single skin or drawing and limited information Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:05, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but from the next sentence it follows that he must have had at least a second specimen to compare with, as he was comparing juveniles with adults? This is what got me confused. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 17:48, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ah yes, I see your point. Will see what else there is explainng that Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:24, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
A mystery! I was wondering the same from the start of my research, the spurius epithet is comparative. It is possible that Kuhl saw another specimen in England, or there are notes from Baudin's expedition, but no one has stated that. It is worth noting the region had no English settlement, collections and information would be rarer than from the east of Australia (Port Jackson). — cygnis insignis 11:17, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Gould also gave blue parrot as the name given in the new colony. – Wording seems a bit convoluted.
rejigged Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:05, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • other vernacular names include: pileated parrot, derived from the old epithet pileatus and formerly used in aviculture; western king parrot, distinguishing it from the Australian king parrot (Alisterus scapularis) occurring in the east; purple-crowned parrot, grey parrot, or hookbill for the distinctive upper mandible. – This is a bit difficult to read, especially the last part, where the separate names are no longer separated by a semicolon.
rejigged Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:41, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sometimes, vernacular names are put in quotation marks, and sometimes not. I would find it easier to read if all were put in quotation marks.
ideally all words as names-as-names would be in italics but this would be confusing with scientific names. Have put them in quotation marks now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:41, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • English artist Edward Lear illustrated the live specimen in his 1830 work – Is this referring to the specimen mentioned in the previous sentence?
yes, hence the "the" there Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:38, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Probably this is just because of my incomplete understanding of English, but was the specimen really a living, captive one, or was it just illustrated in life pose? If the former, I would mention that in the previous sentence already to make it clear. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 17:48, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I recently added 'living specimen', which is surprising though plausible. The full title of Lear's work states they are drawn from life, and this apparent in the realism of the posture and so on, but I needed a secondary reference to support the assertion that the subject was a living bird. cygnis insignis 00:34, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If you are sure that this was a living specimen, I would state that already in the previous sentence, otherwise it is confusing as the reader would first assume that the specimen is a dead one. If you are not sure, it might be better to remove this information. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 08:55, 23 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I believe that Vigors saw living specimens. I can provide a citation that Lear sketched a living bird, in England, and believe that is evident from the illustration. The use of references is in accordance with what I know so far, as I'm not a 'sky is blue' contributor. I feel that I can only improve this when the refs support what I assume, but I am not steering this article and will concede to a different view. — cygnis insignis 12:10, 23 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • have been recorded at: Perth, Djar-rail-bur-tong and Djarrybarldung; King George Sound, Jul-u-up; Stirling Range, Chelyup; and Southwest, Djalyup – as above, the sentence structure was not immediately obvious to me, reading flow is not optimal here.
Me again, I think the italic helped, but I awkwardly tried to compress this information. No objection to expanding this sentence. cygnis insignis 00:48, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • A recommended orthography and pronunciation list of Nyungar names has proposed daryl [char’rill], djarrailboordang [cha’rail’bore’dang], and djayop [cha’awp]. – Unclear to me: Is this repeating names mentioned previously, with other orthography (if so, what is the other based on)? Is this about how to pronounce the names?
Workers have begun using that list for names, I added this after giving Serventy's note from the mid-20C. The orthography and pronunciation list is generally accepted, but not as widely cited as Serventy and Whittell. I added both, but it is the Captain's choice to subtract or merge. cygnis insignis 00:48, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the Taxonomy section, you write "red-capped parakeet" instead of "red-capped parrot", which is slightly confusing.
I prefaced it with a note on the official name to give it context Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:20, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would link "crown" in the description part. Also other terms such as "lore", and many others.
ok, I linked a bunch, but do you think bill should be linked or too obvious? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:34, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • In March and April, the crown feathers and ear coverts of birds with new plumage can have fine black edging. – But they moult in summer and autumn?
Yes, It's the the southern hemisphere - I clarified thusly

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:41, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

How could I forget about that … --Jens Lallensack (talk) 17:48, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
[off-topic comment: hegemony? :–) People in the 'South' always have to convert seasons to months to understand texts, Northerners can presume without context. ] cygnis insignis 01:07, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • white spots on ten or fewer wing feathers are male – so its the opposite as in adults, where only females have the white spots? Or is this about a different kind of spots? Are they on the upper side or on the underside?
ok, females have white spots on undersides of wings. males don't BUT some immature males do have a few spots. Juveniles have lots of spots, but males have fewer than females.Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:25, 11 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the first para of the description, the iris and bill description is somehow sandwiched between separate parts of the plumage description.
I had it there because it was near the other information about the head, but have moved it to the end now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:03, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I miss a description of the plumage coloration of the wings. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:02, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"Upperparts" generally includes wings, but I made it unambiguous just to make sure... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:11, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The nest site is a tree hollow, on average 9.6 m (31 ft) above the ground and often north or east-facing.[25] A site is selected at an older large tree, marri, jarrah, tuart, flooded gum or paperbark, at a height between 4.5 and 16 metres (15 and 52 ft). – "an older large tree, marri, jarrah, tuart, flooded gum or paperbark", but these are all trees? Maybe reformulate. Also, it might make sence to give the average height after the range, or otherwise combine the to bits.
rejigged Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:53, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • A lower entrance, narrow with a larger hollow, recorded at 3 metres (9.8 ft) was considered exceptional.[40] There are often chew marks at the entrance,[23] which is 70–170 millimetres (2.8–6.7 in) wide. – Perhaps switch these two sentences, as it makes more sense to discuss the typical nests first?
But the outlier (in height) is placed directly after height is discussed in the previous sentence. So it follows on naturally. The next sentence about chew-marks is a different attribute Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:09, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The beak of this parrot allows more finesse to obtain seeds from a eucalypt's capsule, the tough case of marri is chewed through by the ringneck parrot or cleaved by the powerful beak of cockatoos (Cacatuidae species). – I don't fully understand why the other birds are mentioned here; is this thought to be a comparison of bill function?
the others are locally occurring psittacines that all eat the same gumnuts...but in different ways, highlighting the specialised adaptation of this parrot's beak. We can remove if too off-topic Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:02, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Marri is a rich food source, but only for those birds that can efficiently extract them. The red-cap parrot and long-billed cockatoo have cracked this nut, and their population has risen and fallen with the changing distribution of marri. In short, this is about ecology, and I tried to shoehorn that into existing sections. cygnis insignis 01:21, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The fruit of other cultivated introductions are also selected, almond, nectarine, olive, peaches, plums, pomegranates, and white cedar (Melia azedarach). – Maybe add an "including"?
added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:55, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The grass species, wild oats (Avena fatua), and acacia is grazed for green seed – Which grass species? If this isn't meant to be as specific, why not simply write "grasses"?
Wild oats is a species of grass, so I did this to reduce confusion Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:13, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The information in the first paragraph of the "Feeding" section could be put into a better order. The information on feeding on cultivated fruits and introduced plants is given at different occasions; it might be better to discuss the original food sources first and than discuss feeding on things introduced by Europeans.
Rejigged Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:29, 11 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • red gum's store of large seeds – What is red gum? Not mentioned previously, maybe add to the list of food plants?
Red gum is a synonym for marri (Corymbia calophylla), fixed now. — cygnis insignis 01:26, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • This may be because of historically high proportion of wild-caught birds entering aviculture. – But this is only the reason for its reputation for being anxious, and not that it is generally anxious in captivity (as in this case, the link makes less sense to me). Could be a little clearer. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:01, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It is probably the former Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:30, 11 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]


Image review

  • File:Purpureicephalus_spurius_-Platycercus_pileatus_Red-capped_Parrakeet_-male_-by_Edward_Lear_1812-1888.jpg needs a US PD tag. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:54, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:05, 9 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Riley[edit]

Here are some initial comments:

  • The "and" in the second sentence is a bit odd, but it's ok. I would still prefer that it be changed, possibly to "with".
rejigged Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:37, 11 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • It'd be nice to say that "Nesting takes place in tree hollows, generally of older large trees, as just saying "tree hollows" isn't very interesting. It also shows, to the keen eye, for example, how the simple planting of trees won't help. Thus, I think that it'd be a good fact to include in the lead.
added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:37, 11 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "it has a bright crimson crown, green-yellow cheeks, and a distinctive long bill. The upperparts, wings and long tail are dark green

"; inconsistent usage of the Oxford comma.

aligned Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:37, 11 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • This really applies to the conservation section, but it'd be nice to state why the population is increasing. According to its IUCN account, it is because formerly unsuitable habitats are degrading to become its preferred habitat.
added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:41, 12 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The phrase "very different" appears odd in the sentence "The specific epithet spurius is the Latin adjective meaning "illegitimate", and refers to the very different adult and immature plumages (hence appearing unrelated)." Maybe say "notable differences between"?
changedf to "markedly different" Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:43, 12 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • You say "Vigors' name was generally used until German naturalist Otto Finsch followed Kuhl in calling it Platycercus spurius in 1868", but didn't Kuhl place it in the genus Psittacus? And it seems that Kuhl died a year after describing it.
You are correct, thanks for reminding me. There is a couple of problems that emerged from two editors using different and occasionally erroneous sources. I will try to access HANZAB to untangle the taxonomy, if Cas does not get there first. — cygnis insignis 03:31, 12 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
what I meant was that the species name pileatus was mostly followed (with different generic combinations) until Finsch recognised spurius as taking precedence Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:01, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe you could say "The species name pileatus was generally used until German naturalist Otto Finsch followed Kuhl in using the specific name spurius, calling it Platycercus spurius in 1868." RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 12:54, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:21, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That's all for now, but I'll leave more comments later. It's interesting so far! RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 22:43, 10 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • When you say "There is no known geographical variation; five birds from Esperance had smaller bills and tarsi, however the sample was too small to draw any conclusions", you do not mention what the birds from Esperance were compared to; previously collected samples in general, or perhaps birds from another specific locality? RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 11:23, 12 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I wrote this Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:53, 12 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That's fine with me. RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 11:21, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's a bit odd to say "The red-capped parrot was known to be related to other broad-tailed parrots, but relationships within the group were unclear", when we do seem to know that it is related to other broad-tailed parrots; perhaps say "The red-capped parrot is known to be related to other broad-tailed parrots, but relationships within the group were unclear before [date]." RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 11:29, 12 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The first "was" places the whole line in the past tense. Adding another past qualifier such as "before" or "previously" strikes me as tautological in this case. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:27, 12 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
But you shouldn't even have a "was", because it is related. RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 11:21, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ok, I did this then Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:42, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good to me. RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 12:04, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • It seems like there should be a "the" before "red-capped parakeet" in the phrase "English ornithologist John Gould called it 'red-capped parakeet' in 1848 based on Vigors' scientific name". RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 13:59, 12 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure I'd agree so rephrased it Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:27, 12 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The phrase "and Pizzey confirming in a 2012 birding guide" reads a bit odd; shouldn't it be "confirmed this" instead of simply "confirmed"? RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 11:25, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Good call, that might have been mine mangling of the sources. I had another go, here, but hope Cas reviews this change. — cygnis insignis 13:03, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Looks fine now, but I think you should have kept "birding guide". RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 16:12, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:53, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW [pers. com.], this confirms my interviews with W. Aust birdies: King=Red-cap. — cygnis insignis 13:10, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the sentence "The adult male has a crimson forehead and crown, which extends from the gape or base of the lower mandible through the eye, grey-brown lores, and green hindneck and cheeks, with more yellow green ear coverts", "with more yellow green ear coverts" is out of place. RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 12:13, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Rejigged like this Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:58, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The last part of this sentence is a bit odd: "The upperparts (including the wings) are dark green, the rump yellow-green, the tail green with dark blue tip." RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 21:47, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I added the missing word Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:27, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • This phrase is pretty ambiguous: "The bill is pale grey-blue or blue-grey with a dark grey tip". First off, what's the difference between grey-blue and blue-grey? Second, does pale apply to both grey-blue and blue-grey (if there is a difference)? Third, does the "dark grey tip" only appear in bills that are blue-grey (again, if there is a difference between grey-blue and blue-grey)? RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 21:47, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
grey-blue is supposedly more blue and blue-grey more grey. however this distinction is probably pretty arbitrary. Just left as blue-grey. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:38, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"Iris dark brown; orbital rim grey; bill bluish grey or whitish grey with darker tip, upper mandible greatly elongated; legs grey." — Handbook of Western Australian birds [ref 40]
I still haven't seen HANZAB, but the above authority may allow some nuance in the description of the bill. The authors of handbooks and guides have different approaches to colour description, Serventy's Handbook (1948) says, "Iris, dark brown; beak, grey-horn with a bluish tinge, and the upper mandible greatly elongated; legs, light brown." — cygnis insignis 03:03, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
linked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:36, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Does "it" refer to the male or the female in the sentence "The colouring of the female resembles the male, though it is slightly duller in comparison"? Same thing for the other sentences in the paragraph. RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 21:47, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I tweaked to remove the issue. I think it is obvous that the next two sentences refer to the female. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:26, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, looks good now. RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 16:57, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the second paragraph of the description section, you use both the plural and singular in reference to the adult bird; I think the singular should be for consistency. RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 21:47, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
singularised as much as I can without sounding awkward Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:41, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The adult? My sources only suggest 'more than the greyishness of the adult', but Johnstone (Handbook, 1998) says, "Bill grey with yellow tip." for juv. and imm. Platycercus spurius. The article currently says, "The bill is more orange, but turns the pale blue-grey of adult birds by two to five months of age." As with the rest of the paragraph, the comparison is to the adult. — cygnis insignis 03:22, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Saying "The juvenile plumage is greenish overall, developing the full colouration of the adult after the first year" and then, later, "Juvenile birds begin their first moult around August, and their subsequent plumage much more closely resembles that of adult birds" seems a bit redundant, and seems to indicate that the "full colouration of the adult" is not completely developed after the first year. Also, it seems to indicate that all birds, no matter if born at the end of the breeding season, moult around August. RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 21:47, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I folded the text in like this to reduce redundancy. Source says moulting starts in august - no idea how this relates to birth time Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:56, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good. RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 16:57, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the last paragraph of the description section, all of the terms for different types of calls (ie contact call, begging call, etc) should probably be linked to the "call" entry in the birdgloss. RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 21:47, 14 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
linked to specific calls Cas Liber (talk · contribs)
sounded alright to me but google and you say otherwise. changed... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 05:35, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The sentence "The red-capped parrot occurs in the Southwest Australia ecoregion in dense to open forest and woodland, and heathland in coastal regions" reads pretty odd to me. First off, isn't woodland forest? This also appears in the second paragraph of the section. And second off, the comma before "and heathland" is a bit odd. RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 22:10, 18 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
See woodland - it has less tree cover. I have linked to it, but then should I link to forest or is that too obvious? The comma is to clarify that the occurrence in heathland is in coastal regions specifically, where as the other two aren't Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:04, 19 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do you mean "extend" in the sentence "Records of the species extent inland from the southern coast, as far as Gingin and Mooliabeenee"? Also, shouldn't it be southwestern coast? RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 22:10, 18 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
yes/fixed. the coastline along the bottom of WA is the southern coast. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 08:07, 20 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • At least to me, "becoming sparser toward the inland boundary of its range" reads a bit odd. Maybe say "becoming sparser further inland"? RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 22:10, 18 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
yes/done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:09, 20 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I switched the two plantation types to avoid the reading 'pine gum': It generally avoids blue gum (Eucalyptus globulus) and pine plantations. The species of pine seems irrelevant, but it is notable that they do not, the introduction of blue gum and pine monocultures often replaces marri and other smart and adept birds visit them and tuck into pine cones. — cygnis insignis 04:42, 19 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I tried to fix this item, and the next one here —cygnis insignis 05:22, 19 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Does the sentence "A sighting at Benger Swamp wetland, a region rich in avian species, is also probable" mean that one is able to see this bird at Benger Swamp, or does it mean that there has been a possible record of this species here? RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 22:10, 18 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Cygnis insignis added that and I think has had a go at tweaking it Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:09, 20 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
singularised Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:30, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Instead of saying "8–9", you should say "eight to nine", per MOS:SPELL09. IMO, you should also convert all of the en dashes to the word "to", but that's a stylistic choice, and it doesn't really matter if you do or don't. RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 12:49, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
the 8-9 months is left as numbers as there is a 20 months just after. MOS also says better to be internally consistent here. I have changed some of the dashes, as I agree that "to/or" or some prose alternative works better in some places, but using it everywhere makes the prose look a little laboured to me. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:30, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
it is an important concept and so linked....wow I'd never call that a boulevard! Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:30, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:52, 22 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • You already mention the kind of trees this parrot needs to nest in, so saying "The nest site is a tree hollow generally in an older large tree, such as a marri, jarrah, tuart, flooded gum (Eucalyptus rudis) or paperbark (Melaleuca spp.)" seems a bit redundant; maybe merge this information and the rest of the sentence with the initial sentence mentioning nesting trees? RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 12:49, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Umm, I can't see first mention - I list trees that live in the parrot's habitat but that does not necessarily mean it nests in them...(unless I am missing something?) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:52, 22 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"The red-capped parrot needs mature trees large enough to have hollows in the trunk or branches." To me, this seems to clearly refer to nesting trees, as it mentions the possibility of having a hollow. If it doesn't refer to nesting trees, though, clarification is definitely needed. RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 14:07, 22 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Saying "was considered exceptional" seems a bit odd in the sentence "A lower entrance, narrow with a larger hollow, recorded at 3 metres (10 ft) was considered exceptional." Isn't it still exceptional? And you should probably mention the author; maybe have the last part say "is considered exceptional by [author]." RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 12:49, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link clutch. Also, the sentence "The clutch of eggs is laid on wood dust at the bottom of the hollow, recorded at depths between 190 and 976 mm (7.5 and 38.4 in)" is a tidge ambiguous. Why don't you just mention the height of the hollow overall in a separate sentence; currently, you could interpret it as being measured from the bottom of the entrance. Also, if you included it in a separate sentence, you could mention how large the clutch is when you first mention it. RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 12:49, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
done x 2 Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:52, 22 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:52, 22 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the sentence "Information on the incubation period is limited, but is between 20 and 24 days", you should probably say "it" before the second "is". RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 12:49, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I have said that line over a few times in my head with the "it" and it sounds really odd to me..but if there is a consensus I will change. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:52, 22 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the sentence "The nestlings are nidicolous—as they remain in the nest initially, weighing 4–6 g (0.14–0.21 oz) at birth and gaining on average 4.1 g (0.14 oz) a day", you should probably remove the "as", and I think there should be a comma before and after "on average". RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 12:49, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
done x 2 Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:52, 22 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Saying "finesse" in the sentence "The beak of this parrot allows more finesse to obtain seeds from a eucalypt's capsule, the tough case of marri is chewed through by the ringneck parrot or cleaved by the powerful beak of cockatoos (Cacatuidae species)" sounds a bit odd. Also, shouldn't there by an "and" after the comma? RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 17:05, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There are several ways to eat oysters, some do it with 'finesse'. The comparison has raised an eyebrow before and been scrutinised several times, I see that as my failure to convey what the sources keep mentioning. — cygnis insignis 05:57, 22 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No, I think its fine. But just don't use finesse, because (at least where I live) it has been adopted as a slang term. RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 14:12, 22 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I just checked the urban dictionary, the definitions are concordant with established usage, and I am at a loss to find a synonym that is certain to not be local slang for some type of mischief. Suggestions or edits to the term are welcome, because I thought it appropriate and am not being persuaded otherwise. — —cygnis insignis 15:48, 22 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The urban dictionary definition is definitely correct, but what I'm saying is that I feel like there could be a more formal word for what you are describing. Perhaps say "dexterity"? RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 16:03, 22 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Switched for 'precision' - 'dexterity' not the right word. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:46, 22 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • At the start of the sentence "Records of feeding on acacia seed pods include Acacia celastrifolia, A. dentifera, A. oncinophylla and A. restiacea, which occur in its range, and stripping pods for small seed of cultivated Acacia merinthophora", why not just say "Acacia species where feeding by this bird on seed pods occurs include"? In its current state, it seems a bit odd to go into a list of species.
The intention is to list the local species of acacia it is known to feed on, and that one [reliable] record was of individuals harvesting seed from an introduced species. I suppose 'records' is weighting the integrity of the information, perhaps that is not necessary. — cygnis insignis 05:57, 22 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
singularised Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:49, 22 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The end of the second paragraph of the feeding section does not have a citation, and the next paragraph is very short. Perhaps these should be merged? RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 17:05, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
rejoined Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:49, 22 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why don't you just say "The red-capped parrot primarily feeds on the ground" instead of "Feeding is often observed on the ground" in the sentence "Feeding is often observed on the ground, clasping the capsule of eucalypts or cones of sheoak with one foot and extracting the seed with their slender hook"? Also, does "hook" refer to the beak or the other foot? RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 17:05, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
the beak, clarifiyed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:49, 22 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The sentence "The dexterity they exhibit using foot and beak to dislodge seeds is also presented by long-billed black cockatoo (Calyptorhynchus baudinii), occurring in the same habitat, both are specialists in extracting the marri's store of large seeds" reads a bit odd. First off, shouldn't there by an "its" before "foot and beak"? And, why say "presented"; "shown" is much more simple". Also, there should be a "the" before "long-billed black cockatoo". Next, I personally would phrase the part of the sentence starting "occuring" as "with both occurring in the same [although maybe "similar" should be used here] habitat and being specialists in extracting the marri's store of large seeds." RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 17:05, 21 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
rejigged Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:57, 22 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
of the upper mandible - added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:57, 22 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Riley, do you feel your comments have been addressed? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:03, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, so far. I'm planning to finish the review tomorrow (if I have the time, of course). Thanks. RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 01:07, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Couldn't you remove "that have been" in the sentence "Species of bird louse that have been recorded on the red-capped parrot include Forficuloecus palmai, Heteromenopon kalamundae and a member of the genus Neopsittaconirmus"? RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 22:15, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
removed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:39, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It was the organism (not the disease) that was isolated. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:39, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Shouldn't there be a comma after "crops" in the sentence "Due to damage to orchard crops these birds have been classified and shot as pests"? RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 22:15, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:39, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could you combine the sentence "Fieldwork in orchards around Balingup showed that the damage there was insignificant" and the previous one using "however"? Also, it'd be nice to give the date in the sentence. RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 22:15, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
done x 2 Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:54, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • There should probably be a comma after "however" in the sentence "However it has declined in the shires north of Perth as marri forests have vanished with urban development." RileyBugz私に叫ぼう私の編集 22:15, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:39, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:39, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tony1[edit]

1a, lead:

  • "though genetic analysis shows that it lies within the lineage of the Psephotellus parrots and its closest relative is the mulga parrot (Psephotellus varius)."—Adding a second "that" would clarify that the second proposition is also from genetic analysis, not a general statement by the writer. We try to minimise "that", but it seems necessary here.
I did ponder a second "that" for here before....now added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:30, 12 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the key distinguishing feature being a white stripe on the wing undersurface that is not seen in her counterpart."—I was going to suggest removing "that is", but it doesn't fix the other problem: is it the wing undersurface that's not seen in males, or the white stripe? Probably the latter, but the wording is ambiguous.
Ummm....it is the latter. I thought that would be obvious as males can fly. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:30, 12 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"… the key distinguishing feature *is* a white stripe on the wing under-surface that is not seen in her counterpart." current version
Slightly better, but how about:
"… the key distinguishing feature, a white stripe on the wing under-surface, is not seen in her counterpart."
I think that may be clearer. — cygnis insignis 03:59, 12 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good. Tony (talk) 07:35, 19 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "as well as flowers and berries, but it may also eat insects"—I'm being fussy: this is ambiguous. We don't know whether it also eats insects, or we know that sometimes this occurs, in some individuals, in some areas? I don't mean to clutter up the wording, but I don't know how to fix it.
My live suggestion is this with a further tweak here. — cygnis insignis 04:21, 12 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • it its it it: "Although the red-capped parrot has been shot as a pest and it has been affected by land clearing, its population is growing and it is considered to be a least-concern species by the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN). It has a reputation of being anxious or difficult to breed in captivity." The first "it" could be removed. The second could be "the"? The third "it" refers to its growing population or the red-capped parrot (perhaps "and the species"?).
all done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:09, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "anxious or difficult to breed". I presume it's not B because of A. "and"? Unsure.
clearly related yes, causative? not clear.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:09, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Looks promising. I haven't read any more of it. Tony (talk) 02:23, 12 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments (and questions) from Aa77zz[edit]

I haven't Higgins and I'm a long way from a suitable library.

  • At what age do red-capped parrots first breed?
pairing at 20 months - added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:28, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • How long do red-capped parrots live?
Not sure, the ABBBS database has nothing really useful as their longest interval was under two years.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:28, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there any notable behaviour involved in establishing the pair-bond?
added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:06, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Does the pair stay together from one year to the next?
evidence says yes - added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:28, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Does a pair use the same nest site from one year to the next?
HANZAB doesn't specify, but from the way it is written I suspect not. Still, it doesn't spell it out. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:50, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Does the pair defend a territory?
they defend the nest site - added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:50, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • How many broods does a pair raise in a year?
HANZAB doesn't specify, but from the way it is written I suspect it is one.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:58, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Are the chicks naked when they hatch?
white down - added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:16, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Perhaps add a photo of a marri seed to the article.
Not much available here...could add File:Parc Gonzalez - Corymbia calophylla (fruits).jpg or File:Starr 020203-0005 Corymbia calophylla.jpg I guess - will have a look on flickr Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:40, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • How do the parents transport seeds - in mouth, in crop, under tongue, in cheek?
HANZAB doesn't specify - presumably the crop?? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:16, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Presumably the parents need to prepare the marri seeds for the nestlings. Do they do this at the nest or do they bring seeds already prepared?
HANZAB doesn't specify... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:20, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "or cleaved by the powerful beak of cockatoos (Cacatuidae species)." - off topic?
Pondered this already in this FAC - am in two minds - I do think the comparison is helpful as the birds are often hidden but dropped gumnuts are common. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:40, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do the parents feed insect larvae to the chicks?
HANZAB doesn't specify (though one would think so...) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:20, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "They are fed by the female alone for the first two weeks," Does the male bring her food for the nestlings?
HANZAB doesn't specify (though one would think so...). The male feeds the female while she is incubating, but HANZAB does not talk about after babies born. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:22, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do the young produce faecal sacs or do faeces just accumulate in the nest?
Good question but HANZAB doesn't specify Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:24, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This may be because of historically high proportion of wild-caught birds entering aviculture." grammar and I don't follow the argument.
wild-caught birds are generally very anxious and more difficult to breed, unlike birds born in captivity Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:22, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

More later. - Aa77zz (talk) 07:30, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've just looked at the HBW alive article and realised that very little has been published on this parrot. It may not be possible to answer some of the above.

I added a note from HANZAB on this as a covering note Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:28, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • For how long does the female incubate the eggs? (HBW has c. 20 days)
HANZAB has 3 sources - Forshaw says 20, the others say 23 and 24....added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:54, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Are there predators of this parrot or its nests?
HANZAB has nothing specific, though one would assume the usual....raptors, goannas etc. Still, not listed. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:56, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "it has adapted to farmland" - I'm uncomfortable with "adapted to" and would prefer "occurs in" or similar - (but may need to jiggle as the next sentence has "occurs").
tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:08, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

- Aa77zz (talk) 19:00, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support - all good. - Aa77zz (talk) 07:22, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

thx! Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:11, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ceoil[edit]

This was my lunchtime reading on Thursday and Friday. Colour me impressed with some quibbles;

  • Not easily confused with any other parrot species, it has a bright crimson crown, green-yellow cheeks, and a distinctive long bill. Should this be "due to its bright..."
umm...not sure. I mean it's not the colour scheme as such as there are parrots with some elements (eg western rosella has red head and yellow cheeks)... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 01:08, 16 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ok Ceoil (talk) 08:03, 16 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • For the uninformed either link or name "upperparts" (lead)
reworded - can't find anything to link upperparts to and actually is only one word to change anyway so changed Cas Liber (talk · contribs)
Butting in here, Glossary_of_bird_terms#U has relevant entries. FunkMonk (talk) 07:35, 23 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • link eucalypts at first instance
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:43, 16 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • has been shot as a pest - is considered a
tricky - I thought the shooting bit was unusual and worth mentioning. Not every pest gets shot... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:58, 16 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • anxious or difficult to breed in captivity "anxious and"
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:43, 16 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • the image in the Taxonomy section is ovelapped by the extended infobox, leading to text squash. Maybe move it down to the para beginning with "The red-capped parrot is known to be related"
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:43, 16 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mathews did tentatively describe - Mathews tentatively described
done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:43, 16 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The red-capped parrot is known to be related to other broad-tailed parrots. Then but relationships within the group were previously unclear. I'd loose "is known to be" and rephrase as "Today...is known to be", and "had been unclear"
tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:46, 16 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Description: "boldly patterned plumage" - boldly?
aaww, what's wrong with "boldly" - captures the bright, clear patches of colour well, I'd have thought.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:56, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • more later Ceoil (talk) 15:00, 15 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support given work by all since my last comments. Ceoil (talk) 18:37, 27 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
thx! Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:25, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Coord note[edit]

Source review for reliability/formatting? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 22:01, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The sources are all of high quality, the only odd one is a 1820 paper in Latin by Heinrich, but this is used to discuss the first descriptions of the bird, ie its primary, but ok, fine. Not seeing any issues re formatting. Ceoil (talk) 22:11, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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