Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sacrifice (2008)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 20:48, 16 January 2009 [1].

Sacrifice (2008)[edit]

Nominator(s): WillC

I'm nominating this article for featured article because I feel it meets the criteria. It is not extremely well written in my opinion but I have a high standard that not even I can please. It is reliably sourced compared to the wrestling project's other FAs and my recently promoted one, Lockdown (2008), which I followed when I began working on this one again. Any comments will be addressed as quickly as I can as if they are to the utmost importance. This event is not a significant one in the history of pro wrestling but some interesting things happened at the event that I feel some would enjoy learning about. I also feel that all articles should be of a good or featured stature, in this case, I believe it should be of featured, which is one reason I'm nominating it.WillC 05:31, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose from Truco (talk · contribs) - per FA Cr 1, 2, and 4

Lead
  • I told you to hold off its nomination, it has a lot of prose issues. I will take this review section by section, because a quick glance, it fails 1,2,and 4.
  • The main event was a standard match involving three competitors fighting for the TNA World Heavyweight Championship, in which the champion, Samoa Joe, defeated Kaz and Scott Steiner. - the lead should not have Out of universe writing because it clutters the lead. Remove the OOU writing.
  • As per the Lockdown's FAC. An unfamilar person reading this article will not know what a 3-Way Dance is and it will turn them off from reading. Look it up, that is what Giant said.--WillC 21:39, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Kurt Angle, originally scheduled for the match, was removed after he announced that he has sustained a legitimate neck injury as the broadcast began. He was replaced by Kaz who had won a new speciality in TNA, titled The TerrorDome. --->Before the PPV began, Kurt Angle, originally scheduled to participate in the match, was removed after announcing that he had sustained a legitimate neck injury. It could also be stated that In one of the prime matches of the undercard, Kaz defeated nine other wrestlers in The TerrorDome to become Angle's replacement, in addition to winning an opportunity to challenge for the TNA X Division Championship.
  • I had something different in there but it must have gotten change in the copyedit.--WillC 21:39, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The finals of The Deuces Wild Tag Team Tournament to crown the new TNA World Tag Team Champions were held at Sacrifice; The Latin American Xchange (Homicide and Hernandez) (LAX) defeated Team 3D (Brother Ray and Brother Devon) to win the tournament and the championship. - 1)It needs to be elaborated whether this was the undercard or what? 2)LAX should not have an acronym because their acronym isn't used later in the lead.
  • The event's undercard featured different varieties of matches. - now I have no idea whether the "Deuces Tourny" was an undercard or not, but if it was, it needs to be before the sentence about the tournament.
  • It was and wasn't. The Finals were not, but the semifinals and such was.
  • The debut of The TerrorDome to become number one contender to the TNA X Division Championship, and to replace Angle in the main event, was scheduled on the undercard; the only way to win this match was to escape The TerrorDome structure through a small hole in the center of the ceiling. Kaz defeated nine other opponents to win the match. - if my suggestion is take above, this is not needed, it clutter the lead
  • I'm following earlier suggestions from Lockdown.--WillC 21:39, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • TNA promoted a TNA Knockouts Makeover Battle Royal to become number one contender to the TNA Women's Knockout Championship also on the card. ---> A TNA Knockouts Makeover Battle Royal was also promoted, in which the winner would become the number one contender to the TNA Women's Knockout Championship.
  • Gail Kim and Roxxi Laveaux won step one of the match as the last two participants remaining after the others were eliminated by being tossed over the top rope and down to the floor. ---> This could be connected in the previous sentence with a semi-colon, as...; Gail Kim won the match. There is too much plot in the lead, which clutters the lead.
  • When the event was released on DVD, it reached a peak position of number thirteen on Billboard's DVD Sales Chart. - per WP:MOSNUM, thirteen should be in number format
  • The professional wrestling section of the Canadian Online Explorer website rated the entire event a 7 out of 10, the same rating the 2007 event received. - 7 out of 10 what? Points/Stars? Aren't there any other critics, this is the only critic I see in all TNA leads.--Truco 21:29, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Slam doesn't do stars. They just give a rating out of 10. They don't do points either. They never mention what the 1 out of 10 stands for.--WillC 21:39, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'll fix all these shortly.--WillC 21:39, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • It looks better, but this sentence The main event was a standard match involving three competitors fighting for the TNA World Heavyweight Championship, in which the champion, Samoa Joe, defeated Kaz and Scott Steiner. - should just say "Triple Threat match" because the lead can be out of universe since the terms are explained in the article later, the lead is just a summary of the article. Other sports articles aren't like this, I think Giant was treating TNA and WWE articles differently because the leads of my promoted FA's are in-universe due to my reasoning above. Also, I believe my suggestion about the sentence on Kurt Angle's neck injury is better worded than the current revision, grammatically wise.--Truco 22:22, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I did a compromise. It is still out of universe but also states the match. I change the Angle statement.--WillC 22:29, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Background Match#1 - since this article has many prose issues, I may (or may not) review the whole article due to that, but I'll try to review each match
  • The main event at Sacrifice featured a standard wrestling match involving three participants—titled a 3-Way Dance—between the then-champion, Samoa Joe (Joe Seanoa), Kurt Angle, and Scott Steiner (Scott Rechsteiner), TNA began to develop this storyline prior to their April PPV event, Lockdown (which took place on April 13). - 1)Link to this match? (The lead/BG links are different) 2)Needs a full stop after Scott Steiner's name; either replace it with a semi-colon or a period. 3)What championship was being defended here?
  • Sorry, the copyeditor placed those together. They were two different sentences. Linking the match is overlinking. It was just linked in the lead so it is too close.--WillC 02:37, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • No, the lead is like a separate article, it has nothing to do with the article itself, its just a summary, which is why it has to be linked in the latter. I don't know who told you it was wrong, follow the other wrestling FA's.--Truco 02:44, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • It is the same in Lockdown. I was told by FA reviewers and a few GA reviewers.--WillC 03:01, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • These reviewers are really treating WWE/TNA articles differently, because in the FAC reviews of WWE articles, they say the opposite thing. I would change it, and if a reviewer agrees tell them it is used by FAs of WWE, like OTE (which was recently promoted). If many disagree, you shall remove it then.--Truco 03:14, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Steiner announced on the April 3 episode of TNA's primary television program, TNA Impact!, that he would be activating a contracted title shot (won at the Turning Point event in December 2007[4]) against the winner of the championship bout at Lockdown between Joe and Angle. - No need to say TNA's acronym in the name of the TV show.
  • Proper name of the show. It is called TNA Impact not just Impact.--WillC 02:37, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm pretty sure they call the show (during the broadcast) just "Impact!" like they don't call "Raw" "Welcome to WWE Raw" The thing is that you already established in that sentence that the show is TNA's, so no need for the repetitive TNA statements.--Truco 02:44, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • The official name is TNA Impact!, but I'll change it.--WillC 03:01, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • On the April 17 episode of Impact!, Steiner kept his word and used his title shot to challenge Joe to a World Heavyweight Championship at Sacrifice. - no need to say "kept his word", it is already established that he was going to use the title shot. In addition, wouldn't it be a "World Heavyweight Championship match"?
  • Fixed. Simple mistakes. My bad.--WillC 02:37, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Afterwards, Angle interrupted and was scripted to announced that he had a clause in his contract that stated he got a rematch if he lost a title. - terrible wording --> Afterwards, Angle was scripted to interrupt the segment, and announced that he had a clause in his contract with TNA, which gave Angle a rematch if he lost a TNA title.
  • Changed.--WillC 02:37, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • He said that he was activating that clause for the next week's Impact! (April 24). - following week's not "next week's"
  • Changed.--WillC 02:37, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • On the April 24 episode of Impact!, Joe successfully retained the World Heavyweight Championship against Angle after Steiner intervened in the match by hitting Angle in the head with a lead pipe (the referee had undertaken an unconscious role and Joe was not paying attention). - this nature of interference requires the sentence to state it was scripted/narrative. In addition, no need to state that the referee was unconscious or that Joe gave a hell about it (to much WP:PLOT that is irrelevant to the feud)
  • If you saw the match it would make more sense. I didn't even have it like that. I really to need to pay attention what was changed by people and what wasn't.
  • Due to Steiner's interference, authority figure Jim Cornette replaced the scheduled championship match between Joe and Steiner with a 3-Way Dance involving Joe, Steiner, and Angle immediately after the title match. - more terrible wording --> After the match, authority figure Jim Cornette replaced the scheduled championship match between Joe and Steiner with a 3-Way Dance that would involve Joe, Steiner, and Angle.
  • This type of wording is leading me to a quick-fail vote, there is serious prose issues here that could have been avoided with a peer review, and more copyedits.--Truco 02:21, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm working on it.--WillC 02:37, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Image review:

  • Free images are fine, taken by the uploaders themselves, EXIF provided, or come with OTRS attached.
  • Non-free image File:TNA Sacrifice 2008.jpg requires tidying and strenthening up in the "Purpose of use" field. That field is for supplying a reason why the image and not others are used. Some of the listed elements currently in there belong in other fields.

This should be an easy case to resolve. Jappalang (talk) 22:35, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sole image concern has been resolved. Jappalang (talk) 00:53, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments -

Otherwise, sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:53, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Figure Four Wrestling site is run by Dave Meltzer and Bryan Alvarez, both of whom are acknowledged as experts in their field. Alvarez is co-author of The Death of WCW, published by ECW Press, and has been quoted in several other wrestling books (including Hardcore History: The Extremely Unauthorized Story of the ECW, published by Sports Publishing LLC, and The Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame: The Heels, published by ECW Press). Meltzer has also written books (Tributes: Remembering Some of the World's Greatest Wrestlers, published by Winding Stair Press, and Tributes II: Remembering More of the Worlds Greatest Wrestlers, published by Sports Publishing LLC, Top 100 Pro Wrestlers of All Time, published by Stewart House). He is quoted in many books and documentaries (Hitman Hart: Wrestling with Shadows and Beyond the Mat, as well as Mysteries of Wrestling, published by ECW Press; Ric Flair's autobiography, To Be the Man; Mick Foley's autobiography; and countless others). Alvarez has been running Figure Four since 1995, and he merged the magazine with Meltzer's Wrestling Observer, which has been around since 1987. If you need any more information to verify their reliability, just ask (or do a search for their names, which should turn up many hits). Pro Wrestling History is only sourcng minor issues, such as match times, attendance, and the tournament bracket which is already sourced throughout the article.--WillC 00:06, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Leaning oppose - First off, if you believe an article "is not extremely well written", why are you nominating it here? Reviewers aren't here to make FA-quality prose, but I'm sure you knew that. Here are some thoughts on the article, which needs work.

  • "The main event was a standard match involving three competitors—titled a 3-Way Dance—fighting for the TNA World Heavyweight Championship, in which...". I don't like the way the sentence flows. Read it out loud and you'll see what I mean.
  • "In one of the prime matches of the undercard". What does "prime match" mean? Also, it could just be "In one of the undercard's prime matches".
  • "in addition to winning an opportunity to" → "and win an opportunity to". Remove comma before this part.
  • Remove duplicate Sacrifice link.
  • The first sentence of the third paragraph is just repeating information from the second paragraph. I don't see the point.
  • From the body: "TNA debuted a new specialty match at Sacrifice, The TerrorDome, to become the number one contender to the TNA X Division Championship." Needs rewording. Giants2008 (17-14) 19:28, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I'll fix these sometime in the future. Answer to the first question is: I never think any article has good prose. I wasn't sure about this one anyway. I've been acting weird the past few days so that might be why I wrote that.--WillC 19:33, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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