Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Starrcade (1983)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 04:29, 27 June 2008 [1].

Starrcade (1983)[edit]

Self-nominator: 13 of Diamonds (talk)


I'm nominating this article for featured article because I believe it meets the FA criteria. The article has undergone a peer review, and has been examined against the reviews of other similar articles. 13 of Diamonds (talk) 02:46, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: It appears that the nominator has subsequently left Wikipedia: [2] Gwernol 00:24, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

Sorry, but I don't think this is reaches the quality required for featured article status. Here are some prose issues I found in the first few paragraphs. This is not an exhaustive list of issues, just some examples:

  • Opening paragraph: "It took place on 24 November 1983 from the Greensboro Coliseum..." should read "It took place on 24 November 1983 at the Greensboro Coliseum..."
  • Second paragraph: "Their feud began after Race won the title from Flair in June, and saw Race offer a bounty to have Flair put out of professional wrestling" would be better as two sentences, I think: "Their feud began after Race won the title from Flair in June. Race then offered a bounty to have Flair put out of professional wrestling" - avoids the awkward "and saw" conjunction.
  • Second paragraph: "Flair was attacked, and depicted to have suffered a career-ending injury". Needs to be reworded, perhaps: "Race attacked Flair, appearing to inflict on him a career-ending injury". You also need to expand on the circumstances of this attack - was it during a match? Was it even at the Starrcade event? I don't understand the chronology here.
  • Second paragraph: "The match secured Flair as the long-term champion" needs rewording, something like: "As a result of his victory in the match, Flair was acknowledged as the long-term champion"
  • Background section, first paragraph: "...where Rhodes was more comfortable losing the title as he, as well as Flair, was not a major name there" should be reworded to "where Rhodes was more comfortable losing the title as he and Flair were not major names there"
  • Background section, first paragraph: "Flair felt that the match was poorly orchestrated due to the location, and as Rhodes was unhappy about losing the title." This seems to contradict the previous sentence - either Rhodes is "comfortable" loosing he title or he is "unhappy" about it. You should reconcile these two sentences. Also "and as" is the wrong conjunction to use, I think you mean "and because"?
  • Background section, first paragraph: "Flair's reign as the champion ended on 10 June 1983" This is a very sudden switch. You spent three sentences on details about Flair becoming champion, then the next sentence tells us when his reign ended. If its worth writing that much detail on how he became champion, shouldn't there be something about his reign? Did anything significant happen during his reign? Why did his reign end? If you tell us why it began, you ought to tell us why it ended too.
  • Background section, first paragraph: "Race wanted to regain the title to help with the operations of the Heart of America professional wrestling promotion, in which he invested" I'm not sure why you are telling me this. For a reader unfamiliar with the subject, this seems arbitrary. Can you expand on why this is important? What impact does this have on the Race-Flair feud?
  • Background section, second paragraph: "...to have Flair put out of professional wrestling so as to avoid losing the title" change to: "...to have Flair put out of professional wrestling to avoid losing the title"
  • Background section, second paragraph: "Flair was portrayed to have suffered a severe neck injury..." change to something like "Flair's character was portrayed as suffering from a serious neck injury..."?
  • Background section, second paragraph: "Flair soon announced his retirement..." can you be more specific than "soon"?
  • Background section, second paragraph: "The promotion planned for their feud to culminate at Starrcade..." is it correct to say "The promotion" here - promotion is a verb not a noun? Should this say "The promoters planned..."? I'm not sure what the correct wrestling terminology is here.
  • Event section, first paragraph: "...performed an eye rake to Jones." should be "performed an eye rake on Jones."
  • Event section, first paragraph: "The match started back and forth..." needs to be reworded, since I don't know what this means.
  • Event section, first paragraph: "...gained the advantage over McGhee by targeting his left arm" - its not clear to this reader at least, why targeting his left arm led to an advantage.
  • Event section, first paragraph: "Lewin performed a knee drop from the top turnbuckle..." what is a turnbuckle? Probably needs a wikilink.
  • Event section, first paragraph: "...lacerated his forehead with a foreign object from Hart." You need to tell us what sort of foreign object was used.
  • Event section, first paragraph: "Angelo Mosca attempted to help McGhee, but was also attacked." Why did Mosca help? Understanding the motivation is important

The prose needs a fairly major rewrite throughout. The Results section, for example, is a list that repeats information already in the article and needs a fair amount of work, or maybe should be moved into a table? You don't say what the units of time are - minutes and seconds, presumably? The Production and Reception section seems to contain a lot of background information that should be in the Background section, or at the top of the Event section.

More generally, I found the Event section lost my interest. I'm not a wrestling fan, so I came from this from the perspective of a general reader. The Background section was interesting - describing the importance of the event itself and the characters involved. The tone of the Event section is very different, it uses a lot of jargon and is really little more than a blow-by-blow account of the matches. I can't follow the action since I'm not familiar with all the moves described. You introduce lots of new characters without giving me their storylines and I don't care about them or understand the complex feud dynamics involved. This seems to be a section written by and for wrestling fans and I suspect you will loose a lot of the general readers at this point. I'm not sure exactly how to resolve this.

I notice the article is currently rated as B-class. You might want to start by nominating this article as a good article and work on some of these issues there. Good luck, Gwernol 08:53, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • I fixed the minor grammar stuff. I don't know much about the event in question, so I'll have to leave the more difficult tasks to someone with that knowledge. Nikki311 22:40, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • Replaced, someone has taken the liberty to replace those. Nikki311 20:44, 26 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Otherwise sources look good, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 12:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - 1a. I second Gwernol's concerns about the prose and add these:

  • In the first paragraph, three straight sentences begin with it. More variation is needed.
  • How did one match secure a long title reign for Ric Flair? You'd be better off stating that the match led to a long title run. I also disagree with the premise. According to the article, his run lasted for about three months. I'm sure there have been many longer title runs in pro wrestling.
  • Wording changed.
  • Event: "and lacerated his forehead with a foreign object from Hart." Picky, but in addition to stating the foreign object I would prefer "provided by Hart."
  • "and Colon applied the figure four leglock on Abdullah. This should be "a figure four leglock".
  • In the next sentence, make clear that the referee was still knocked out when Savinovich performed his attack.
  • "Slater and Orton then dominated Youngblood and McDaniel" Dominated comes off as POV. Try "Slater and Orton then took control of the match".
  • "Youngblood performed dropkicks to Slater and Orton, but was then double-teamed. They..." This could be improved by ending the first sentence with "but the pair then double-teamed him."
  • "but Kabuki fought back and applied the clawhold" Here's the again. It really comes off as informal.
  • "After the match, the Briscos attacked Youngblood, Steamboat and Mosca until they eventually fought back." Don't like eventually here.
  • "Race dropped Flair on his head into the canvas with a piledriver" The order seems off to me.
  • "Flair fought back after sending Race into the corner." This needs to say "corner of the ring."

Sorry, but this doesn't look ready yet. I recommend that you get the article copy-edited. To do this, go to Wikipedia:WikiProject League of Copyeditors/Members or Wikipedia:Peer review/volunteers and ask nicely until you get a taker. Best of luck. Giants2008 (talk) 01:20, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Like above, I took care of the minor grammatical problems, but I don't have the knowledge to deal with the more indepth questions. I also copyedited for comma issues. Nikki311 22:40, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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