Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/To Be Loved (Adele song)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 9 November 2022 [1].

To Be Loved (Adele song)[edit]

Nominator(s): NØ 11:11, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about Adele's song "To Be Loved". It was one of the few songs she played for her father shortly prior to his dying from cancer, an event that ended with them both in tears. Critics viewed "To Be Loved" as a standout on 30, and it ended 2021 as one of the most acclaimed songs of the year despite missing a commercial single release. Her acclaimed vocals on the song were described as "squalls and ragged screams" and "a howl of pain". Although Adele vowed never to perform it live, a pre-recorded performance of it was well-received on social media. Thanks a lot to everyone who will take the time to give their feedback here.--NØ 11:11, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support and comments from ErnestKrause[edit]

Nice song from one of the top songwriters and performers in the last two decades. Some comments to get things started.

(1) No lyrics sections here like the one that her song page for 'Rumour has it' offers to the reader. It seems like there are enough RS out there to have a short section on the lyrics.

(2) No video section either. Although there was not an official video release, Adele did release a pre-launch video of herself singing the song at home to solo piano accompaniment. Since she released the video herself and since the video is up 8 Million-9 Million views on Youtube, then this seems to justify inclusion as a separate section. There are also RS available which comment on the pre-launch video, and it would be nice to know if the accompanist is her favorite piano player or simply a friend standing in. Some comment on the video and audio quality might be included wince the microphone used was inadequate to capturing the range of her voice. It looks like more than a 'clip' as you refer to it in the current version of the article; it has both an intro and conclusion.

That should get things started. ErnestKrause (talk) 17:41, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to thank you for taking the time to post comments. The last paragraph of the Composition section conerns the lyrics, this is usually appropriate placing for it as lyrics are part of a song's composition. The performance video is adequately covered in the Background and promotion section. As its upload predated the song's release I think it fits there. Both of these sections were written in summary style after surveying all available RS and giving due weight to them. The pianist's name is not available in any sources. Regards.--NØ 18:12, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I've kept my eye on this article, and if a third person signs up for Support then I may offer to do the Source review. At present, I'm finding alot of RS about the lyrics, and about the solo piano accompaniment. Apparently, this is the only track on the album which the writer of this song also accompanied on the piano; he seems to be the person playing on the mobile-phone video which Adele releasedl as well. Regarding the Lyrics, the many RS I've been finding are speaking of the Lyrics as being very strongly and substantially developed over thelength of this six minute song, and some have spoken of this song as the best song on the entire album because of the lyrics. ErnestKrause (talk) 00:27, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's a little hard to believe because I vividly remember exhausting all RS while writing this article. Maybe you’re looking at unreliable sources. The "Rumour Has It" section you referenced above is entirely sourced to Genius which is an extremely poor source so we're not gonna use that.—NØ 09:11, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not using 'Genius'. Some of the RS appear to be from PM Studio here [2], from People here [3], from 25YL here [4], etc; have you seen these. ErnestKrause (talk) 13:05, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
PM Studios looks fishy in terms of reliability and the about us page doesn't load. Everything written there is already present in the article from better sources. 25YL has a "Write for us" section and there's nothing else there that gives me confidence that this is an FA quality source. People was already included in the article and it is almost completely made up of an abundance of direct quotes of the lyrics; it neither states that Jesso Jr. plays the piano in the performance video nor that the lyrics are "very strongly and substantially developed".--NØ 18:11, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Adding my support to the several editors below who have done a thorough effort on this FAC. The nominator has checked all the citations I have suggested and responded as to his preferred format for the article. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:23, 2 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@FAC coordinators: Apologies for bothering, everything else is done but I wanted to ask if any further action is required w.r.t. these comments before I proceed with the next nomination.--NØ 08:29, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Aoba47[edit]

  • I find that this part reads awkwardly, one must make upon falling in love and addresses her divorce from Simon Konecki, attempting to justify to her son why their marriage did not succeed. I am uncertain about starting with the more general "one" and then transitioning to the more specific "her" to reference Adele. This shift just seems somewhat jarring to me.
  • Changed the "her" to "Adele".
  • I think this part, accompanied by live piano, would be better phrase as, accompanied by a piano, as I find the "live piano" word choice to be off. This comment applies to the lead and the article.
  • I would avoid wrote/written in this part, Adele wrote the song "To Be Loved" with Tobias Jesso Jr., who had written two songs.
  • For this part, 6 minutes and 43 seconds long, shouldn't six be spelled out in words like it is done for the "I Drink Wine" article?
  • Could you add some links for this quote, "12-mile tailback on the M62", because I have no idea what it means.
  • I am not sure of the value of this part, and The New York Times's Jon Pareles described as "live-sounding". The quote is not particularly strong in comparison to the The A.V. Club one which establishes this live-sounding idea better.
  • As much as I like the File:Whitney Houston (cropped3).JPEG image, I do not think it fits the "Critical reception" section, at least in its current form. From what I can see this section references Houston only once and the comparisons to her are mostly made in the previous section. Given the length of this section, I do think an image is helpful, but I think a stronger justification for its inclusion would be helpful.
  • Would moving the Houston comparisons to the Critical reception section help? I would love some ideas related to this.
  • I think that would be helpful. I would go with that option. Aoba47 (talk) 16:00, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I was curious on your thoughts about the "Commercial performance" section. It is a rather short paragraph so I wondering if it would better incorporated in a previous section, such as the "Background and promotion" section?
  • I understand why you included Nigeria as a location for the The Guardian citation but I am uncertain about it as I think the citations have to be consistent in regards to these kinds of parameters.
  • This is super nitpick-y, but 30 is italicized in Citation 34 but the album title is not italicized in any of the other source titles.

Apologies for not getting to this review earlier. I hope that it is helpful. Once everything has been addressed, I will read through the article again to make sure I do a thorough review. Best of luck with this FAC! Aoba47 (talk) 16:06, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • I've addressed these comments and left some replies, Aoba47. Thank you for the review and I am excited for the rest of it!--NØ 07:40, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am glad that I can help. I will read through the article again tomorrow. I doubt I will have much to add, but I just wanted to make sure I do my best as a reviewer. I hope you have a great rest of your week. I think this may be my favorite 30 song. Aoba47 (talk) 16:00, 13 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I read through the article again and everything looks good. Once the Houston part is addressed, I will support the nomination for promotion. I do have a quick question though. The Houston comparisons are highlighted in two spots (i.e. in the audio sample and with the Houston image). I think it would be best to modify the audio sample since the Houston comparisons will be moved down and it does come across as repetitive to me and putting a lot of weight on these comparisons over other aspects of what critics have discussed. Aoba47 (talk) 17:37, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I believe the Houston part is addressed now, although I was unsure about how to handle the "pirouettes" part. Please feel free to make any changes to that which might be necessary before supporting.--NØ 17:53, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your response. I do have a quick suggestion. I would move this sentence, "Critics compared Adele's vocal performance to Houston.", to the end of the paragraph and move the "pirouettes" sentence right after it. In its current placement, the sentences seems random and rather jarring, and I recommend moving it to later in the paragraph as I think it would flow better off the Jason Lipshutz sentence that already discusses Adele's vocals and the Houston comparisons could be a nice way to transition to the second paragraph which focuses on Adele's vocals. This is only a suggestion of course, but I think this part needs more work and revision in some way. Aoba47 (talk) 18:08, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Done--NØ 18:37, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your patience with my review. I support this FAC for promotion based on the prose. Aoba47 (talk) 19:16, 14 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from ChrisTheDude[edit]

  • "It reached the top 40 in Australia, Canada, Sweden, the United States, and entered the charts in some other countries" => "It reached the top 40 in Australia, Canada, Sweden, and the United States, and entered the charts in some other countries"
  • "She describes the price one has to pay upon completely and unapologetically falling in love with someone else in it" - I'd lose the last two words
  • "further compared them to vocalized" => "further compared them to vocalised" (UK subject - UK spelling)
  • "opined its final vocals" => "opined that its final vocals"
  • "opined it will go down in history" - same
  • "contrasted its dark lyrics" => "contrasted with its dark lyrics"
  • "opined it was the most monumental 30 track" - and again :-)
  • That's all I got - great work! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 06:47, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks a lot for the review, ChrisTheDude! I believe these are all addressed.--NØ 13:27, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • File:Whitney_Houston_(cropped3).JPEG: source link is dead. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:29, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Removed-NØ 18:11, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source review (pass)[edit]

Unrelated to my source review, but do you think this page should be moved to "To Be Loved" (song) as it is the only song of this title with its own article and "...To Be Loved" is distinguished by the ellipsis. Anyway, my comments on the source are below:

  • The citations are reliable and appropriate for a music article and high-quality for a potential FA. I do not see any major issues with the structure of the citations either. I have done a Google Search to see if there was any more recent coverage on the song and it appears that the article is up-to-date and comprehensive.
  • Citation 53 requires a subscription so this should be marked in the citation. This should also be done for Citation 47 as they are both Los Angeles Times articles. The New York Times citations (i.e. Citations 32 and 52) should also have this as that site requires a subscription. It may be beneficial to do a quick double-check through the citations to make sure they are not any others that are not clearly marked.
  • While this is likely obvious, it is important to remember that this article will need to be maintained as I'd imagine this song will be discussed in retrospective reviews and the like (but considering Adele has said she will never perform this song live, there's not much to worry about there). That being said, I have faith in the nominator, as well as other editors, to do this well.
  • I have done a spot check through several of the citations. The dates and authors (when applicable) match up and the information supported in the articles matches with the information present in the citations.

I hope this review is helpful. Apologies for double-dipping and doing a source review on top of my prose review, but I just wanted to help not only with this nomination, but to help the editors who often do these source reviews as I understand they can be time-consuming and energy-draining. Once my relatively minor issue about the subscription markings are addressed, this should easily pass my source review. Aoba47 (talk) 02:43, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Everything should be addressed now, Aoba47. Please don't apologize for double-dipping, source reviews are mandatory for all nominations and they're really always a big help. Thank you!--NØ 02:08, 31 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I am glad that I could help! This passes my source review. Aoba47 (talk) 02:25, 31 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Heartfox[edit]

  • "testimonial epilogue so gigantic that she sounds as if she might break her vocal cords" → this is almost identical to the source text "a testimonial finale so big that she sounds as if she might blow out her vocal cords".
  • "with extenuating passion that might be powerful enough to cure all her old lesions" → this is almost identical to the source text "with a redemptive passion that feels like it has the power to heal all her old wounds".
  • This is adequately paraphrased in my opinion but I've changed it up some more for good measure.
  • "remarkable that it did not stop time in Los Angeles when she recorded it and make everyone wonder what they had just witnessed" → this is almost identical to the source text "it’s hard to believe everybody in Los Angeles didn’t stop on the day she recorded it and wonder what they just heard".

The way these are worded made me think quotation marks were missing. It doesn't really sound "encyclopedic". Can these be rephrased to avoid close paraphrasing? I think just using the original quote is fine also.

Template:Single chart is also driving me insane with the chart title being used in the publisher field, but I will ignore this. Great work with the article! Heartfox (talk) 03:14, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Addressed! Thanks and hope you're having a great day.--NØ 04:12, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Just two more things:
  • "noting she delivered her final vocals on it" → don't use "noting" in reference to an opinion per WP:SAID.
  • per MOS:CONFORMTITLE the album title 30 should be italicized in references regardless if the publication did so. Heartfox (talk) 20:35, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Addressed these two. Thanks for catching this.--NØ 02:08, 31 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I support this article for promotion. If you have time, my current FAC could use some comments. Heartfox (talk) 02:33, 31 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Query for the coordinators[edit]

This one does have four supports and is a month in at this point. I'm taking up two spots in the queue currently so, if you agree a consensus has been reached, can this perhaps move towards promotion? Regards.--NØ 12:34, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging @FAC coordinators: --NØ 07:19, 7 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Noted. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:44, 8 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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