Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Untitled Goose Game/archive1

Add links
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 26 May 2023 [1].

Untitled Goose Game[edit]

Nominator(s): MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 21:18, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled Goose Game is a 2019 stealth game about being a goose and bothering the people of a small English village. The game, developed by Australian studio House House, was inspired by the style of Super Mario 64 and the mission-like objectives of the Hitman franchise. I love this game and think it'd be great for FA. Got it to GA a few months ago. Excited to hear everyone's comments! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 21:18, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

PCN02WPS[edit]

Claiming my spot, I'll give this a read in the next day or two. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 16:13, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from first read-through

Lead

Gameplay

  • Does gameplay fall under MOS:PLOT or a similar guideline? I'm asking because I genuinely don't know, but if it doesn't then I'd imagine paragraph 1 in this section would need a reference (or removal of the paragraph break between para 1 and 2)
    • I did change the breaking under "Gameplay", and looking at other video game FAs, the "Gameplay" sections are cited; I've added citations to the section. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 21:21, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Development and release

  • "which sparked a conversation about geese" → not sure this detail is relevant, since the goose is mentioned initially when it was sent in a chat by someone
    • Cut it in the lead; rephrased it in development to: ... internal communications. The team later realised that it had the potential to be a fun game. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 18:43, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "who assisted the studio in getting set up properly." → the end of this sentence is a little bit clunky - also what was getting set up here? The studio, for the first time, or this game specifically, or something else?
    • Clarified to: The game is House House's second project, and like their debut, was supported by the government organization Film Victoria, who, as developer Stuart Gillespie-Cook described, assisted the studio in "making us sustainable and making us into a real studio." MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 18:43, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there any more information available about the process of the game's development? If not, there's not much you can do here, but it skips right from "The team put the idea aside for a few months until they realised that it had the potential to be a fun game" to the game's publishing
    • A lot of the development itself is actually covered in the second and third paragraphs, the second discussing inspirations and the third discussing other inspirations and the progression of the game's concept. I do agree that this structuring is odd, so I've rearranged some things; take a look and see if it makes sense. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 18:43, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the gameplay evolved into a unique stealth-like experience" → this reads like an advertisement, I'd recommend revising to avoid sounding promotional
  • "House House created a structure using missions with specific targets similar to the assassinations in the Hitman series mostly as a joke" → this is a bit confusing to someone not familiar with Hitman
    • Rephrased to: House House created a structure using missions with specific targets, similar to the mission structure in the Hitman series. House House member Jake Strasser stated "It has a set-up and a punchline. By removing the violence from it, we just let the situations exist as a joke."
  • "which stuck since then. The Untitled Goose Game title stuck with fans" → a tad repetitive (emphasis is mine) and recommend removing "since then"
  • "The only other title they had come up with at one point" → remove "at one point"

Music

More comments to come. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 14:16, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Release

  • Remove link to iam8bit and move to its first mention, in the "music" subheader
  • The information about the reviewer and the credits at the end of para 3 seems out of place, was that the only reason it was initially rejected for iOS?
    • As surprising as it is, that's my understanding of it; there were a number of other sources I found that reflected the same information, but I deemed it silly to cite so many if they all say the same. I placed that at the end of para 3 because the previous sentence mentions release on Steam and itch.io, so it seemed reasonable to explain why it didn't make it to the App Store after that. Do you think it should be moved elsewhere? MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 21:21, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reception

  • does the IGN quote need to have the game's title italicized? If they didn't italicize it, I can't really advise on what to do since I'm not sure myself.
  • I think it would benefit the article to summarize reviews a bit more, as opposed to leaning so heavily on quotes from those reviews
  • The sentence about the Destructoid review is repetitive; the introduction of the quote ("Destructoid positively compared the game to Shaun the Sheep, saying") renders the start of the quote ("Untitled Goose Game reminds me greatly of the animated series Shaun the Sheep") redundant
  • If Benny Hill is linked in the IGN quote, I'd link Buster Keaton in the GameSpot quote
  • "to create chaos in" → awkwardly worded, I would rework the end of this sentence
  • Para 2's last sentence is also worded a little awkwardly, especially "with it becoming an Internet meme"
    This still doesn't read very well - I think "...were shared on social media, the game became an Internet meme"; this avoids tense issues. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 18:24, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's it for me on the first read, I'll go back through and look at sources after these have been taken care of. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 15:47, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@PCN02WPS: Thanks for the review! I've addressed everything, and some responses have questions for you just to clarify things. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 21:21, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Second read-through

  • Gameplay section starts with "set in an idyllic English village", which refers to the game, but the rest of the sentence talks about the players and the goose, not the game itself
  • "When enough of these objectives are cleared (one fewer than the total), an additional objective is added which, once cleared, allows the goose to move on to the next area" → this may be a touch too much detail, I think just saying that the goose can move on to the next area once enough of these objectives are cleared is sufficient
  • "local multiplayer" could be linked to Multiplayer video game#Local multiplayer, if you wish
  • link "indie" to Indie game in the first sentence of "Development and release" since not all readers will know that term
  • The original development still seems a little jumpy - the first paragraph goes directly from the stock photograph to "this could be a fun game" without mentioning that the photograph and the concept of a game were related in the first place. This is clarified a bit in the next paragraph but giving the first paragraph a little more flow would be beneficial
    • I added a bit from the second para to clarify: ...internal communications. The team later realised that a game involving a goose protagonist had good potential, and began with the idea of having the goose just be a moving stock image. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 23:03, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the gameplay became stealth-like" → if this preserves the meaning you're intending, I think "became stealth-focused" would be better as far as wording goes
  • "The team opted for the English village" → "an English village" since we're not talking about a specific existing village
  • WP:QUOTE says to use single quotes for a quote within a quote, like in McMaster's quote in the last sentence of para 2 in "Development and release"
  • "the developers had not yet named the game, and without any other ideas, the developers used the title of the gameplay video the publisher had applied with for the submission" → "the developers" is repeated (emphasis mine)
    • I replaced it with they, but I think you asked for it to be switched before I replaced the first subject with "the developers"- if you think something else is better, let me know. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 23:03, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The only other title the developers had come up with was Some Like it Honk, but the team never gave it serious consideration" → Are "the developers" and "the team" referring to the same group of people? If so, just use "they" on second mention instead of "the team"
  • "about 200 to 400" → "about" doesn't really work with a range; either "about xyz" or "x to y"
  • Delink PlayStation 4 from its first link in para 2 of the "Release" subsection and move that link to its mention in para 2 of the "Music" subsection
  • Is there a reason to abbreviate the console names in the "reception" table (NS, PS4, XONE)? It seems that there'd be enough space to fit the whole names in, or at least with less abbreviated names (e.g. Switch, PC, PS4, Xbox One)
    • Looking in WP:VG, there doesn't seem to be any particular explanation for the abbreviations (unless I missed something), so I removed the abbreviations and Wikilinked them. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 23:03, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there a reason that the review scores switch between numerical scores and stars? I'm sure that's how the scores are presented in their respective reviews, but it seems like it'd be fairly easy to convert 3.5 stars to "7/10" or 8 stars out of 10 to "8/10"
    • You've raised a very important guideline here, I'm glad you said this- while using percentage or _/_ is up to the source, according to WP:VG/REC, the same guideline section also says that stars have been phased out and should be replaced with numbers. It's been fixed. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 23:03, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The last sentence of para 2 in "Reception" still reads poorly, I'd go for "...were shared on social media, causing the game to become an Internet meme" (if that causation is correct) or "...shared on social media, and the game later became an Internet meme" (if you're not trying to imply causation)

Comments above; that's what I found on my second-read through. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 16:13, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@PCN02WPS: Thanks again for your review, I believe I've addressed everything here. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 23:03, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Awesome. I'm happy with the changes and the state of the article, so I will support. Best of luck with the rest of the FAC! PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 15:54, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image review[edit]

  • Don't use fixed px size
  • Suggest adding alt text
  • File:Untitled_Goose_Game_gameplay_screenshot.png needs a more expansive FUR. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:03, 22 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Prose and source review from Ceranthor[edit]

  • "The music, designed by composer Dan Golding," - never heard designed used for music... why not just "composed by Dan Golding"?
    • I hesistated to use "composed by Dan Golding" because the music was technically composed by Debussy (excluding the one Golding wrote for the Playstation 4 version). "Designed" made more sense in my head because he devised the technology that would play the stems after certain actions. That being said, do you think it should be changed? MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 19:08, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    What about "curated"? ceranthor 22:24, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Makes more sense, added. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 00:17, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "low poly meshes, flat colours and untextured 3D models.[13]" - should use a serial comma since you have elsewhere
  • "hey implemented a system where the NPCs would tidy up" - replace They with "The designers" or whomever you're trying to reference here (it's unclear!)
  • "Developer Michael McMaster also stated that, "A major influence for the game was children’s TV programming from the UK... Postman Pat, Fireman Sam, Brum, etc. This is probably where the “storybook” feeling comes from..."[16]" - rather than end with an ellipse, I'd recommend just ending with a period.
  • "The name of Untitled Goose Game was a result of having to come up with a title quickly on learning that the game had been accepted at the Fantastic Arcade" - wordy and a bit clunky, rephrase
    • Changed to: When the game was accepted at the Fantastic Arcade part of the Fantastic Fest in Texas, the developers had not yet named the game, and without any other ideas, the developers used the title of the gameplay video the publisher had applied with for the submission: Untitled Goose Game. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 19:08, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and without any other ideas, used the title of the gameplay video they had applied with for the submission" - missing a subject
  • "The Untitled Goose Game title stuck with fans when they started to promote the game" - who is they?
  • "The only other title they had come up with was Some Like it Honk, but the team never gave it serious consideration.[17]" - same point
  • "Game Informer praised the game for its silliness and creativity, but felt that the game was repetitive and too short.[51] " - don't need the comma before but
  • "Destructoid positively compared the game to Shaun the Sheep; "There's little dialog, plenty of antics, and humans who keep getting outsmarted by birds."[49]" - need a verb to introduce the quote
  • " GameSpot wrote that the soundtrack "is what really sells the goose's charms," and that it gave the gameplay a "feeling of farce ... reminiscent of a Buster Keaton film."[4]" - don't need the comma after charms
  • What makes GameSpot a reliable source? Same for Rock Paper Shotgun, Siliconera, 4players, GameRevolution, Destructoid, Eurogamer, GlobeNewswire, PCGamer, GamesRadar+, and Kotaku?
    • To be honest, I'm not entirely sure, so I've created a list below of those sources with justification for each (just so it's more organized for me). MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 19:08, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Gamasutra is now Game Developer.

Prose and source comments here. Prose mostly looks good, need to discuss sources more. ceranthor 22:36, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Ceranthor: Thanks for your review! I believe I've addressed everything, and I had some questions, as seen in my responses. Thank you! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 21:03, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Barring the one comment I responded to above, I'm satisfied with the prose changes as well as the source justifications/the one replacement. Support on prose and sources. ceranthor 22:24, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you so much- I've addressed your above comment! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 00:19, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note for coordinators As this article is a first-time nomination, it needs to be spot-checked for copyvio and source-to-text integrity. The Night Watch (talk) 01:13, 26 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

  • GameSpot: WP:VG/S states it's good to use if the author has a staff writer; all GameSpot sources used are staff authored
  • Rock, Paper, Shotgun: WP:VG/S says it's good
  • Siliconera: Replaced the only Siliconera source per recommendation in WP:VG/S with Eurogamer (regarding coop update)
  • 4Players: Good per WP:VG/S
  • GameRevolution: Good per WP:VG/S
  • Destructoid: WP:VG/S labels this source as situational, saying, "some content may be reliable, but only if the author can be established as such". The authors of the two Destructoid sources are described as "Editor-at-Large" and "Senior Editor", respectively. From this, I can assume the two articles are good. If you disagree, I could try to find replacements.
  • Eurogamer: Good per WP:VG/S
  • GlobeNewswire: GlobeNewswire is just a press release service that published the GDC's press release. Looking at other groups that distribute through them, they seem to be reliable; they're used by Nasdaq, Parsons, FreightCar America, etc.
  • PC Gamer: Good per WP:VG/S
  • GamesRadar+: Good per WP:VG/S
  • Kotaku: The only Kotaku source is a review, good per WP:VG/S

Support from Gog the Mild[edit]

Recusing to review.

Sure. In "References", when you cite articles - the bits between the quote marks - you have some titles in title case, eg "Video Games Are Better Without Gameplay"; and some in sentence case, eg "Hassling farmers, stealing a picnic and solving puzzles in Untitled Goose Game". They should all be in one or the other. My reading of the MoS suggests title case. How they appear in the original is irrelevant. That help? Gog the Mild (talk) 18:02, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

More to follow. Gog the Mild (talk) 00:34, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments thus far! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 02:09, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and the other performed slower and softer". Perhaps 'the other more slowly and softly'?
  • "Game Informer praised the game for its silliness and creativity but felt that the game was repetitive and too short." "Game" three times in a sentence is a bit much, maybe replace the last with 'it'?
  • "to become an Internet meme" → 'to become an internet meme'.

That was fun; nicely written. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:23, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Gog the Mild, thank you for your review! I believe I've addressed everything, including the title case comment- thanks for clarifying that. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 00:35, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source spotcheck[edit]

  • 3: I don't see any information from this source in the second sentence sourced to it.
  • 7: I presume this is not an WP:USERGENERATED source?
    • I'm pretty sure it isn't, WP:IGN says nothing about user-generated content
  • 22: OK.
  • 23: OK.
  • 25: OK.
  • 29: OK.
  • 31: OK.
  • 33: OK.
  • 37: I don't think most of the information is supported by the source.
  • 39: OK.
  • 43: OK.
  • 44: OK.
  • 50: OK.
  • 52: OK.
  • 57: OK.
  • 60: OK.
  • 61: OK.
  • 69: Where is the distinction between "nominated" and "won" made in the source?
  • 70: Might want to tag the reference as broken, so that the archive link displays by default.
  • 74: Where is the distinction between "nominated" and "won" made in the source?

Keep in mind that I don't know much about the reliability of these sources. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 07:53, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: I believe I've addressed all your comments, thanks for the spotcheck! As for the reliability, I was previously asked about this, and some are listed higher on this page. The rest of the sources can be checked at WP:VG/S or WP:RS/P. Thanks! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 11:50, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
|url-status=dead can be used to make the archive link display as the default one. Otherwise seems OK to me. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 12:24, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Jo-Jo Eumerus, I understand, but seeing as the link is not dead, I don't see why I would need to do so. To clarify, I'm referring to Ref 70. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 13:42, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I meant this URL Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:04, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Jo-Jo Eumerus, I understand now, it's been fixed- thanks! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 16:37, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Source 7 should be removed since it is from the IGN wiki, which is a user-generated service and thus unreliable.
I also saw something with Source 12: "House House cited Super Mario 64 as the initial inspiration for the type of game that they hoped to build." The source says that SM64 was inspiration for the movement, not necessarily what they hoped to build. I think I may need to do a few spot checks on my own just to be sure. The Night Watch (talk) 13:49, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@The Night Watch, I replaced Source 7 and fixed the SM64 issue. Thanks for bringing these to my attention, and I would much appreciate any further comments. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 16:46, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'll try and do a quick spot-check sometime today or tomorrow. The Night Watch (talk) 17:31, 15 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Night Watch[edit]

Spot-checked refs 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9, 11, 13 and 14 (Borrowed that GamesTM issue) 17, 19, 27, 35, 36, 41, 63, 65

  • Refs 2 and 11 do not say that the developers based the goose off of a stock image. I may be looking in the incorrect spot, but I can't find that information in the sources.
  • Ref 6 is a wiki-source from IGN (same as source 7) and should be replaced/removed.

Aside from those two points, everything else appears good. The Night Watch (talk) 18:30, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@The Night Watch, thanks for the spotcheck- I've replaced 6 and removed the claim before 2 and 11 because I couldn't find another source to support it. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 18:52, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The Night Watch (talk) 19:01, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Untitled_Goose_Game/archive1&oldid=1157194496"