Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Vance Drummond/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 25 May 2019 [1].

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Vance Drummond

Nominator(s): Ian Rose (talk) 07:41, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Following on from Lou Spence, another Royal Australian Air Force wing commander who fought in the Korean War and seemed destined for the top but died too soon. This bio was on my list for some time, the impetus to complete it being 1960s images becoming available to use, and my discovery of a detailed article on the circumstances of the subject's death. A New Zealand-born RAAF pilot, Drummond survived close calls in Korea and in Vietnam only to die mysteriously in a training exercise off the Australian coast – or perhaps not so mysteriously; the evidence from the court of inquiry may offer a cautionary tale for high achievers everywhere... Thanks to participants in the article's MilHist A-Class Review a few months back, and in advance to all who comment here. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:41, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Support and source review by PM

I reviewed this article at Milhist ACR last year, and could find precious little to quibble about then. I've looked at the minor tweaks since, and I consider it meets the Featured criteria. I also looked at the sources at that point, and concluded they are all of high quality and reliable, and there are no formatting issues. No spotchecks conducted, as the main contributor has an impeccable reputation at FAC. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:07, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Many thanks PM. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:21, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

SchroCat

• Support Annoyingly I can't see anything to pick up on here. It seems (from the point of view of a subject ignoramus) that this covers all the main points I would expect it to. Enough detail to give colour, but not too much to get swamped down by. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 15:27, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

• Much appreciated Gav. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:22, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Support by Gog the Mild

• "and was not disciplined for his lapse" -> 'possible lapse'?
  • I think "lapse" alone is justified because the report describes the accident as due to "carelessness" on the part of the pilot before mentioning the extenuating circumstances and the intention not to discipline.

• Fair enough, but the article says "possibly knocked his control column forward". But you now say that the report definitively found that he was careless. So why this "possibly"?

• Okay, that's different -- yes, checking the page citing that sentence there's no "possibly" about it, should read "accidentally" -- and it does now. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:24, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

• "The squadron had gone into action a week after the outbreak of the Korean War". It may be useful to insert at this point when this was.
  • Can do.
    • Done. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:16, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
• "The communists operated a Russian-designed swept-wing jet" And "the communists" would be whom?
  • I used the shorthand term to cover the North Korean and Chinese air forces, as well as the Soviet pilots but yes, I guess it could be a bit esoteric for the uninitiated -- will try and elaborate as briefly as possible.
    • Done. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:16, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
• "In its first months operating the Meteor" Is it known how many months?
  • Late July to September seems to be the range but the source wasn't exactly precise date-wise, hence my couching in the terms I did (I felt that having said the Meteor had come into service shortly before Drummond arrived in August I'd given the approximate starting point).
• "Drummond was recommended for the US Air Medal" To the uninitiated, "recommended for" may not be synonymous with 'awarded'. Ditto his DFC later.
  • My understanding is that you have it right -- the recommendations came first, the awards later, per the article text.

Apologies, I should have deleted that when I got to the end of the paragraph.

• "No 2 Advanced Navigation Course" I am a little surprised by the upper case letters. Flagged for information only, not as a subtle way of saying that you are wrong. (There are subsequent similar cases.)
  • I think title case is appropriate as these are the proper titles for the courses in question.
• "No. 15 Course" is somewhat uninformative. Is the content of the Course known?
  • AFAIK, the Staff College only ran a staff officer training course, hence the course being identified by number alone.
• "and was raised to squadron leader on 1 January 1962" Optional: "raised" sounds more like being elevated to the peerage than a military promotion.
  • I do find it used in sources as an alternative to "promoted" and I think it's worthwhile for that reason.
• "which frequently appeared at events in Australia and its territories" What are the territories of Australia? That are separate from Australia itself. Is there a Wikilink?
  • States and territories of Australia seems the most comprehensive, happy to add in.
    • Done. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:16, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
• "apparently at his own behest, according to the official history of the RAAF in the Vietnam War" It seems odd to me to have "apparently" mixed with a reference to the official history. Delete "apparently"? (If the OH states 'at his own behest' or similar, consider 'according to the official history of the RAAF in the Vietnam War, this was at his own behest'.)
  • I agree it sounds a little curious but I think it's a fair paraphrase of how the official history puts it...

Just these minor quibbles. A fine, solid article.

Gog the Mild (talk) 19:11, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Tks for looking! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:20, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi Gog, just checking if you saw these responses/actions. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:35, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi Ian Rose, apologies if I have missed a ping; sloppy of me. Happy with your changes and/or explanations, with one exception, noted above. Gog the Mild (talk) 10:33, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi Gog, actioned your one outstanding point last week. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:11, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

A top class article. Happy to support. Gog the Mild (talk) 09:14, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:41, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. --Laser brain (talk) 13:50, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.