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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 25 June 2021 [1].

William Lyon Mackenzie

[edit]
Nominator(s): Z1720 (talk) 16:54, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Journalist. Politician. Rebellion Leader. William Lyon Mackenzie held many roles and got into a lot of trouble. He tried to reform the Upper Canada political system (what is now known as Ontario, Canada) and became Toronto's first mayor. He led the Upper Canada Rebellion, went a little crazy, and fled to the United States when government forces defeated the rebels. He organised an invasion of Upper Canada with American volunteers but was arrested by the American government and pardoned by President Van Buren. Upon his return to Canada, he became a politician and ranted against government proposals.

There are too many people to thank for their comments, both informally and in the PRs and GAN, so I will post a note on their talk page. I hope you enjoy reviewing this important biography in Canadian history as much as I enjoyed researching it. Z1720 (talk) 16:54, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Peer review/William Lyon Mackenzie/archive2. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:20, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Watchlisting with an eye towards supporting; please ping me when independent reviewers have been through. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:20, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/William Lyon Mackenzie/archive1#SandyGeorgia SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:33, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Image review—pass

Support by Lee Vilenski

[edit]

I'll begin a review of this article very soon! My reviews tend to focus on prose and MOS issues, especially on the lede, but I will also comment on anything that could be improved. I'll post up some comments below over the next couple days, which you should either respond to, or ask me questions on issues you are unsure of. I'll be claiming points towards the wikicup once this review is over.

Lede
Prose
Additional comments

Additionally, if you liked this review, or are looking for items to review, I have some at my nominations list. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:45, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

HF

[edit]

I've got this weekend off work, so I'll try to review this over the next couple days. Might claim for 5 points in the WikiCup. Hog Farm Talk 23:30, 15 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • "In 1834, York became the city of Toronto and Mackenzie was elected by the city council to be its first mayor, but he was not reelected the following year." - This makes it sound a bit like he lost election, when he really wasn't actively running. Rephrase?
    • What about, "He declined the Reformer's nomination to run in the 1835 municipal election."
      • That would work wonderfully.
        • Done
  • ". He is the most recognizable Reformer of the early-1800s." - Not sure that the hyphen is needed
    • Removed
  • What the Family Compact was is explained in the lead, but not really in the body.
    • Removed pre-1833 references to the Family Compact, explained who they were when they were named by Mackenzie in Sketches of Upper Canada in 1833.
  • Second paragraph of Election to the Legislative Assembly, four of five sentences all start with "He". Can this be varied some?
  • "with each new constituency (also known as a riding) " - Piped link Riding (division)#Canada?
    • Done
  • "Van Rensselaer, Mackenzie and 24 supporters occupied Navy Island on December 14" - Link Navy Island
    • Done
  • "Durham sent an agent to interview Mackenzie, who reported that Mackenzie's grievance was with the composition of the Legislative Council vague references "to lift the hand of tyranny from the soil" - Something seems off here grammatically to me. Missing a word?
  • "calling the legislature illegitimate after the Governor-General reinstated the Mackenzie-Cartier Administration without an election" - Is this an error for Macdonald-Cartier?
    • Not sure what you mean. Z1720 (talk) 18:25, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • I think it should be "Macdonald-Cartier Administration" based on context, rather than "Mackenzie-Cartier Administration". Is this correct?
        • You are correct. Fixed.
  • "He is the most recognizable Reformer of the early-1800s." - From the lead - I didn't see this explicitly stated in the body
    • From "Historical reputation" section: "Historian Albert Schrauwers described Mackenzie as the "best-known reformer" of the early 1800s." Lee stated above that the meaning was unclear, so I changed "best-known" to "most recognizable" in the lede. Should I also change the wording in the body and remove the quotation marks? Z1720 (talk) 18:25, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • No, it's fine as is. Just me not seeing something.

Good work. Hog Farm Talk 15:22, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

[edit]

Spotchecks not done. Version reviewed.

  • Some of the details in the lead don't appear to be cited anywhere - for example, that the post-pardon papers failed due to lack of subscribers
  • Similarly some of the details in the infobox don't appear to be cited anywhere - for example, the role of Alexander Macdonell
  • Explanatory notes should generally be in a different section to references
    • Done
  • FN262: if you're going to cite the updated version, this should also credit the author who did the update
    • Added
  • FN263: page? Ditto FN265, check for others
  • How are you ordering multiple works by the same author in Works cited?
  • Archive link for Armstrong 1971 is non-functional
  • Was the print version of DCB the one consulted, or the online version?
    • Although I used the online version originally, Johannes Schade said I should reference the print version instead. During the changeover, I verified the information (as I had to find the page numbers) and the information is now cited to the book. Z1720 (talk) 02:33, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Volume statements generally shouldn't be part of the title
  • Be consistent in whether you include locations for books
    • Done
  • Hamil is missing publisher
    • Fixed
  • What makes Hoar a high-quality reliable source?
  • Dundurn Press or just Dundurn? Check for consistency. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:39, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments Nikkimaria. I have commented above. Z1720 (talk) 02:33, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support by GP!

[edit]
  • Support: As the GA reviewer for this article a few months ago, I have watched its steady improvement over the past several weeks and have deliberately refrained from commenting here until some other uninvolved editors had a chance to look. Their reviews in tow, I am confident that my own impression has been confirmed, which is that this article is incisive, well-written, well-referenced, comprehensive, neutral, and interesting, representing the very best of what Wikipedia has to offer. As such, I am delighted to offer my support to this FA nomination (based on assessment of criteria 1, 2, and 4 ... I have not independently examined images). Go Phightins! 22:25, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Tkbrett

[edit]
Lede
  • "He published his first newspaper in 1824 called Colonial Advocate": this reads a little awkwardly. You use "the" before Colonial Advocate throughout the article, so I presume "He published his first newspaper, the Colonial Advocate, in 1824" would be fine.
Done
  • "In 1834, York became the city of Toronto and Mackenzie was elected by the city council to be its first mayor" can be made active as "... and the city council elected Mackenzie its first mayor."
Done
Prose
  • "Dundee Advertiser" -> "Dundee Advertiser newspaper".
Kilbourn doesn't specify if the Advertiser is a newspaper, so I added Sewell as a reference to verify the info. Z1720 (talk) 01:49, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In 1811 he was a...": comma needed after 1811.
Done
  • "His congregation agreed to baptise James after a fine of thirteen shillings and fourpence was paid to the church and Mackenzie endured public criticism for fathering an illegitimate child.": passive voicing can be made active as "... after Mackenzie paid a fine of..."
I tried flipping the sentence but it felt like it was dragging and long because Mackenzie's punishment is a large part of the sentence. Suggestions?
In the source, is it saying that the church agreed to baptise Mackenzie's son only after he paid the fine and endured public criticism? Or did the church only require the fine and the public criticism is a separate thought? If it's the latter, I think the sentence can be split. Perhaps: "Mackenzie endured public criticism for fathering an illegitimate child. His congregation agreed to baptise James only after he paid a fine of thirteen shillings and fourpence to the church." If it's the former, then I think it should be flipped to make it clearer that these two punishments were joined: "His congregation agreed to baptise James after Mackenzie endured public criticism for fathering an illegitimate child and paid a fine of thirteen shillings and fourpence to the church." Tkbrett (✉) 11:48, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The source says he had to do both before James could be baptised. I used your second sentence. Z1720 (talk) 13:25, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Inflation equivalencies across the article use a lot more significant figures than I think are necessary. For example: "£625 (equivalent to £52,521 in 2016)". Rounding it to 53,000 would be preferable. Others include: "£250 (equivalent to £24,272 in 2016)", "£1,000 (equivalent to £94,340 in 2016)", "$5,000 (equivalent to $120,547 in 2019)", "$12,000 (equivalent to $321,766 in 2019)".
These are calculated using a template so that the numbers are updated when the template is updated. I'm not sure how to round the money. Z1720 (talk) 01:49, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Inflation provides some info on this under rounding where it mentions to avoid excessive precision. If we add r=-3 to the template this will eliminate the precision of the last three digits. For example: £625 ({{Inflation|UK-GDP|start_year=1826|value=625|fmt=eq|r=-3|cursign=£}}) → £625 (equivalent to £67,000 in 2023). Tkbrett (✉) 11:48, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the info! I rounded all the numbers except the $10 fine (with inflation $241). Z1720 (talk) 13:25, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lieutenant governor is spelled differently across the article, whether with or without a hyphen and either capitalized or not, including: "Lieutenant-Governor Peregrine Maitland", "advisory committee to the lieutenant governor of Upper Canada", "Upper Canada Lieutenant Governor John Colborne", "new lieutenant-governor Francis Bond Head", "the authoritarian power of the lieutenant-governor." Presumably this should be standardized, unless I'm missing something.
You are right, it should be standardised. Sources don't agree on the spelling, but since its spelt "lieutenant governors" in the Wikipedia article, that is what I have used and I changed the article accordingly. Z1720 (talk) 01:49, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done
  • "on December 14 and Mackenzie proclaimed the State of Upper Canada on the island": I believe State of Upper Canada can be piped to Republic of Canada.
Done
Done
Done
  • "Mackenzie proposed abolishing of the Court of Chancery, ..." -> "Mackenzie proposed abolishing the Court of Chancery, ..."
Good catch. Done
  • "and he was removed from the committee by the Parliament in retaliation" can be made active as "and the Parliament removed him from the committee in retaliation."
Done
Additional comments
  • copyvio score is a good 33% (Violation Unlikely).
  • This is my first ever time commenting on a FAC, but it seemed like a good place to start given my love of newspapers and Canadian history. This page is superb. Once the above are addressed I'll be happy to support. Tkbrett (✉) 01:08, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I hope you enjoyed reading and reviewing the article. Comments above (and one question) Z1720 (talk) 01:49, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed both the baptism sentence and the inflation. Z1720 (talk) 13:25, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for all your hard work on this incredibly important Canadian history page. It's a great read! Proud to offer my support. Tkbrett (✉) 13:47, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Ceoil

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  • pursued the policy proposals - ppp. Also what does presued here mean...supported or enforced
  • He was successful in criticising government officials .. what does "successful in criticising" actually mean. Criticising takes no effort.
  • Changed to "He was a popular politician because of his criticism of government officials"
  • provoked an armed conflict - "rose in"....otherwise its is as if the fooled their buddies into doing so
  • He was elected to the Legislative Assembly of Upper Canada where he investigated government corruption - add the year
  • Done
  • an unsuccessful invasion of Upper Canada in the Patriot War - during the patriot war, or in what became known as
  • I couldn't find a source that said "This is when it was first referred to as the Patriot War." Historians refer to these events as the Patriot War, and I found a source where Van Buren refers to the events as the Patriot War in 1839. I'm comfortable with keeping it as-is. Z1720 (talk) 01:59, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think I misread your first comment in this section; I thought you were asking if the war was referred to as the "Patriot War" while the war was ongoing. Mackenzie was an element in recruiting for the Patriot War, as outlined by Gates [5]. I changed the wording slightly to remove the implication that he initiated the Patriot War. Z1720 (talk) 02:31, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • struggled to implement - is "struggled" a nice word for "failed"
  • Lets go so with "majority failed"
  • organised American support to invade Upper Canada and overthrow the Upper Canadian government ...overthrow it's government?. also rallied is better than organised
  • Added.
  • Thanks
Comments above. Z1720 (talk) 01:59, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging Ceoil in case they did not see my last comment. Let me know if there are other concerns. Thanks! Z1720 (talk) 14:58, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Ceoil, last chance... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 09:24, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
no need to hold up on my behalf: looks good now from a scan, would be unlikely to oppose. Ceoil (talk) 10:09, 22 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from TRM

[edit]
  • Upper Canada Rebellion overlinked in the lead alone.
  • Link Upper Canada on its first use.
    • Done
  • "He is the most recognizable Reformer of the early 1800s." bold claim, according to whom? And I guess you mean specifically an "Upper Canada Reformer"?
  • "Canada in 1820" comma after Canada.
    • Done
  • Link Toronto.
  • "first mayor" first should be part of the pipe.
    • Done
  • It's like the lead has a lead, the first para of the lead is a synopsis of the next two...!
    • I agree. The lede struggled with explaining why Mackenzie was notable, but I think I added too much detail to the first paragraph. I tried trimming it, but suggestions are welcome. Z1720 (talk) 14:05, 23 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "for over ten months" more than.
    • Done
  • "State of New York" is that a formal name? Our article allows for "New York State" but not "State of New York" thus capitalised.
  • "was a weaver" also a weaver (on the second usage).
    • Done
  • "public dance, Daniel became sick" I assume there's some intended causality here, any explanation at all as to what this is all about? Severe hangover...
  • "after his son" make it clear this is William you're talking about, I'm not certain at this point if he had any siblings etc.
    • Replaced "his son" with "William"
  • "independently.[9] She instructed" merge, "independently and instructed"
    • Done
  • Isn't the Dundee Advertiser the The Courier (Dundee)?
    • After looking at The Courier article, I think you are right. Wikilinked.
  • "to his son" isn't it "their" son?
    • Done
  • "baptise" v "summarize" I assume this is okay in Canadian English?
  • "thirteen shillings and fourpence" link this to an appropriate LSD article and also consider inflating so we get an idea what that actually means these days.
  • Link Montreal on its first use.
    • Done
  • "son James joined" did he have any other sons? If not, we already know his name from previous section.
  • No further mention of Isabel Reid, did she just disappear from the scene?
    • Pretty much. Most biographers don't mention her, Biographi says "Nothing is known of the mother, Isabel Reid,"
  • "His mother invited..." James' mother or William's mother? Last "He" was James.

That takes me to "The Colonial Advocate..." section. More to come. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 09:29, 23 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments above, and a question. Thanks for your review! Z1720 (talk) 14:05, 23 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "press to create the" create->publish.
  • organised - is that Canadian Eng?
  • he wrote -> he had written.
    • I assume this is at "inscription he had written". Changed
  • "the paper had the highest circulation among York newspapers" paper .. newspapers, repetitive. Perhaps replace the first one with the name of it again.
    • Done
  • "In 1826, a ... " Mackenzie is mentioned three times in one sentence...
    • Rephrased
  • "nearby bay" put nearby in the pipe.
    • Done
  • ""two representatives" is that the same as Member of Parliament (Canada)?
    • No. Parliament of Canada doesn't exist yet (Province of Canada is created in 1841, Canadian Confederation happens in 1867). There's a lengthy discussion about this on the FAC talk page, but basically none of the sources described the official title of legislators in the Parliament of Upper Canada, (it could be MLA, MP, MPP, or something else) so I only used general job titles like "representative" and "legislator".
  • "evaluated... evaluated" repetitive.

Changed the first "evaluated" to "assessed"

  • Church of England - could link.
    • Done
  • Link Quebec City.
    • Done
  • "with Reform leaders" vs "the reform leaders"
    • Fixed
  • Link Colonial Office.
    • Done
  • criticised - should that be criticized?
  • Link Tory.
  • "while James FitzGibbon" context, who's that?
  • "submit grievances" -> "submit the grievances" (you've already mentioned them)
    • Done
  • the Legislature or the legislature?
  • "Lord Stanley" no article?
    • Found him, done.
  • ""the Legislature would not let him participate in the legislature" clunky. And L/l again.
    • reworded.

That takes me to "Upper Canada politics", more to come. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 19:45, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • ""city council. ... Toronto city council" repetitive.
    • Changed "Toronto city council" to "the council"
  • "the highest amount among all candidates" amount is not required.
    • Removed amount.
  • Could link mayor appropriately here (as you have in the lead).
    • Done
  • Link Ticket (election).
    • Done
  • "with each new constituency" avoid repeat, maybe 'each new sub-division'?
  • "Grievances.[85] The committee interrogated" merge to avoid repeat of "committee".
    • Done
  • Anglican church - we'd normally capitalised Church in this usage.
    • Done
  • "with the reform movement.[91] " Reform or reform? There are a few of these throughout.
    • Yeah, this has been discussed before. If it's the political party, it's Reform, if it's the political ideology, political movement, or it's the verb, it's lowercase. This creates a lot of grey zone. I ctr+f'ed this and I think I changed all instances to the correct capitalisation. Z1720 (talk) 20:33, 25 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the Constitution on July 4, 1836. The Constitution accused" repetitive.
    • Done
  • "meeting with reformers dubbed" Reformers?
    • Yep, done.
  • "He spent the summer..." who? Mackenzie or Bond Head?
    • Changed to Mackenzie
  • "the Patriotes asking Mackenzie to" asking him.
    • Done
  • "other reform leaders" Reform?
    • Done
  • "sent a warning to Mackenzie about" -> "sent him a warning about"
    • Done
  • "Lount instead. Lount responded" -> "Lount instead who responded"
    • Done
  • "the leader of the rebellion, Anthony Anderson" previous text said he was one of the two leaders?
    • Removed
  • "sympathised" is that Canadian Eng?
    • Fixed
  • Link British Empire.
    • Done
  • "invasion of a country that the US government had not declared war against" -> "invasion of a country against which the US government had not declared war"
    • Done
  • ""in the Caroline affair and the" overlinked.
    • Removed second wikilink
  • "witnesses giving" to give.
    • Done
  • ""Mackenzie was denied permission"" He was...
    • Done
  • "so John Montgomery arranged" context, who is he?
    • Added a blurb on who Montgomery is.
  • "editor. Mackenzie became" He became.
    • Done
  • "July 1844, he was" Mackenzie. Try to mix it up a little, previous para has "Mackenzie" for two consecutive sentences and then "he" for the next four...
  • Some "equivalent" values are dated to 2016, some to 2019, why the difference?
  • "the New York Tribune" New-York.
    • Done
  • "the Tribune until" italics.
    • Done

That's up to "Return to Canada". More to come. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 08:48, 25 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again for your excellent comments! Responses above. I look forward to more later. Z1720 (talk) 20:33, 25 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "to investigate the causes of the rebellion" -> "to investigate its causes".
    • Done
  • "Mackenzie for the report. Mackenzie told"" -> "Mackenzie for the report who told"
    • done
  • "and he wanted" and that he wanted
    • I'm going to disagree. The source states that these were two separate grievances, and this change would link them in a way that is not verified. The quote from the source (Gates 73): "From him I could extract no reference to any specific grievance beyond the composition of the Legislative Council and the vague statement that they wanted "to lift the hand of tyranny from the soil"" Z1720 (talk) 21:45, 26 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the Baldwin-Lafontaine" Baldwin is overlinked and I think that hyphen should probably be an en-dash.
    • Changed to an en-dash. Removed Baldwin's wikilink
  • "first responsible government" what does that mean?
  • "including a movement for an " including one for...
    • Done
  • "Greely" our article has him at Greeley.
    • Fixed
  • (Link Whig earlier wherever it appears first).
  • "H.N. Case," two things here, I would {{nowrap}} it and would space out H. N.
    • Done
  • "denounced the court's practice" denounced its practice
    • Done
  • "from Baldwin's colleagues for his project caused Baldwin"" caused him.
    • Done
  • "the MacNab-Morin coalition" again I think that should be an en-dash.
    • Done
  • "Accounts and its reports" is it more like "while"?
    • Done, I think while is an improvement.
  • "and Parliament removed" what's the strategy on capitalisation of P/parliament outside its fully formal title?
  • ""with the Clear Grits of George Brown" what are those? Explanation needed.
  • Is re-election hyphenated or not?
  • "the Macdonald-Cartier Administration" en-dash and why is admin capitalised?
    • En-dash placed, admin no longer capitalised.
  • "Brown-Dorion Administration" ditto.
    • Done
  • "Macdonald-Cartier Administration" etc.
    • Done
  • "a half-mile and"" maybe "half a mile (0.8 km)".
    • Done

That takes me to "Writing style", not far to go! The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 18:27, 26 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • "and used too many footnotes" in her opinion.
    • Added
  • "described ... described..." repetitive.
    • Changed some of these.
  • "invented quotations he would misattribute" -> "invented misattributed quotations"
    • Done
  • "issues he advocated for " issues for which he advocated.
    • Done
  • "constantly ... constantly" repetitive.
    • Changed one to frequently
  • (Horace Greeley is now overlinked).
    • Done
  • Link Whig first time.
  • "John Charles Dent said" who's he?
    • Added text to explain who he is.
  • "John Sewell said"" similar.
    • Added text to explain who he is
  • Our article capitalises Social Gospel.
    • Done
  • criticised - CanEng?
    • Done
  • proselytise - likewise?
    • Done
  • "George Brown wrote" who he?
    • He was introduced as a political opponent of Mackenzie in "Return to the Legislature".
  • "John King called " same
    • He was introduced in the "Political philosophy" section as Mackenzie's son-in-law
  • "the Lower Canada Rebellion, Louis" overlinked.
    • Removed Lower Canada Rebellion link, this is the first time Papineau is mentioned so I think it's appropriate to link.

That's it! The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 12:30, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: Sorry for my delayed response: real life has been busy. Comments above. Also, some of my responses have questions that might need a follow-up. Thanks again for your review! Z1720 (talk) 20:29, 4 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is in a really good condition, good work. I responded above but nothing now to prevent my support. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 20:44, 4 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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