Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/BBC Sports Personality of the Year Coach Award

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 23:27, 30 December 2008 [1].

BBC Sports Personality of the Year Coach Award[edit]

Original plan was to get this to be part of a future topic for all SPoTY award lists. This is the first one I believe meets the criteria in that series. It has had a peer review, and all further comments most welcome. Thanks in advance, Rambo's Revenge (talk) 19:57, 20 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments by Chrishomingtang

Comment

  • The term "sporting experts" is vague. Are they sport writers, broadcasters, players or other coaches?
    • done BBC says over 30 leading sporting experts from a selection of newspaper sports editors (national and regional) and magazines., so I refined it to "sporting journalists". Rambo's Revenge (talk) 15:06, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The second column is missing a heading
    • Question Other recent FL's don't do this - e.g. List of UEFA Intertoto Cup winning managers. It is really an extension of the winner column, but with an additional way of sorting. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 15:06, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I still think this column needs a heading—Chris! ct 19:57, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • I have added a heading by way of a note. I did not add a title in the strict sense as it forces the flag column of the table to be a lot wider than is desirable. If you still don't feel that the title is satisfactory please let me know. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 20:37, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • I just went ahead and fix it myself. I combine the nationality column with the winner column. I also set the width of the rationale column. You can reset these changes if you want.—Chris! ct 00:44, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Shouldn't Rugby Union/Rugby League be just Rugby since the column is "Sport"?
  • Heading of the 5th column: "Coach of" -> "Team"
    • Question. Not sure. Joe Calzaghe is not srictly a team, but an individual hence "Coach of". Would you disagree? Rambo's Revenge (talk) 15:06, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Align center all ref links in the "Note" column
  • Rearrange position of the images so that items in the table won't be forced into two rows
    • not done even if the images are removed completely the table is still forced on to two rows (on my 1400×1050 px resolution at least). Rambo's Revenge (talk) 15:06, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
—Chris! ct 01:14, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Giants2008

Comments - Although it's short, it looks pretty good. I just found some minor things that can be further improved.

  • "Each panelist votes for their top two choices, their first preferences is awarded two points, and their second preferences is awarded one point." First, change the first comma to a semi-colon. Also, both uses of "preferences" should be singular. done
  • Comma after Arsene Wenger. done
  • "with five of the other six winners being European." This is a "noun-plus-ing" structure, which I'd like to see changed to "and five of the other six winners were European." done
  • "so the then St Helens captain Paul Sculthorpe, collected on his behalf." Either add another comma after captain, or remove the one after Sculthorpe. done
  • There are specific links for the 2006 rugby competitions that can be used to replace the general links. They are Challenge Cup 2006, Super League XI, and 2006 Super League Grand Final. Also could have links for the 2000 rowers and the 2003 Rugby World Cup Final. done

Giants2008 (17-14) 17:30, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

All done. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 18:51, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

With the above comments taken care of, I support. Giants2008 (17-14) 00:41, 24 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:08, 29 December 2008 (UTC) [reply]
Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

  • "The BBC Sports Personality of the Year Coach Award is an award given annually, as part of the BBC Sports Personality of the Year ceremony each December." No comma necessary. done
  • "The award was introduced in 1999, and first presented to Alex Ferguson."-->The first recipient of the award was Alex Ferguson, in 1999. done
  • "doing so in 2002 and 2004."-->having done so in 2002 and 2004. done
  • "Britains"-->Britons. done
  • "southern hemisphere" Should be capitalized. done
  • "In 2007, Enzo Calzaghe was the first recipient of the award who had coached an individual, and not a team." Second comma not needed. done
  • "collected on his behalf."-->collected it on his behalf. done
  • Where is the source for the nationality and sport of the winners? Dabomb87 (talk) 19:08, 25 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment. I have added a cite for the sports. I don't think it is needed for the nationality as they are something easily verifiable. If you disagree I'm sure I could find citations unrelated to SPoTY that cite individuals nationality. IMO this is excessive if but you really think they are necessary let me know. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 19:00, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 19:08, 25 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24

Comments by -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24[c]

  • I don't get how the "By nationality" section is useful for this article.
    • Comment. I have seen these sections in other FL's. e.g. this and its topic members. I think it is useful to show that although SPoTY is to do with British sport, it is not prominently won by Britons, unlike (for example) the main award. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 19:40, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The "By sport" section also isn't useful, as the main table is sortable.
    • Comment. Similar to above, these sections seem to be common. The section helps show any possible bias towards sports. Sortable is ok whilst the number of awards is small (currently here), but will become useful as there are more award winners (as in the main award). Rambo's Revenge (talk) 19:40, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I believe more than half the readers are American, so could you replace Football with Association football?
    • done I have changed the first "football" in the lead to "association football". The table instances of "football" are all wikilinked to Association football already. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 19:40, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Another football manager" Tell the readers that Alex Ferguson was a football manager first, then do the next sentence.
    • done
  • "...the only man..." Couldn't women win this award?
    • done, good spot.
  • "Britains" --> "British". They are British people, not Britains.
    • done Already changed to "Britons" per Dabomb87 above.
  • St Helens --> St Helens RLFC as some readers may not understand.
    • done
  • "...coaching the British Olympic cycling team to eight gold medals at the Beijing Olympics."
  • Beijing Olympics can be mistaken some several reasons. Wikilink it to 2008 Summer Olympics.
    • done It already was, but I have skipped the redirect.
  • Needs a reference.
    • Comment It already is. Per WP:LEADCITE, when the lead is summarising information in the body of the article (ref 21) they can be omitted to "avoid redundant citations in the lead". Rambo's Revenge (talk) 19:40, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't see how the references cite the rationales, since they aren't in the section of the Coach of the Year, but elsewhere on the article.
  • Comment. I don't quite understand. The rationale have direct references e.g. This is a BBC article which includes why Anderson won the award - "The former New Zealand coach earned the award for guiding the team to Challenge Cup, minor Premiership and Grand Final triumph." The note section references the winners in a non-primary source. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 19:40, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The problem here seems to be that the rationales are direct quotes from the section for Team of the Year, not Coach of the Year. Are the Coach of the Year always with the Team of the Year, or is it divided separately? -- signed by SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24 spell my name backwards at 22:15, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The rationales are from Coach of the Year where possible, e.g. ref 17 There is not always a seperate page for each of the awards so sometimes they are from a combined page e.g. ref 21 covers a British cycing double of Team & Coach awards. Othertimes reasons are given in a summary on an overall Sports Personality page e.g. ref 5 which says "the coach who guided Redgrave, Matthew Pinsent, Tim Foster and James Cracknell to their coxless fours gold, received the Coach of the Year accolade." They don't come from any team of the year page, they just come from whatever page BBC seem to give the rationale on. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 23:31, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
-- signed by SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24 spell my name backwards at 07:23, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think that you should read WP:MOSFLAG and decide whether the usage of flag icons is suitable for this article. There are a number of areas where the flags could be confusing/misleading or wrong. One example could be the Italian flag next to Enzo Calzaghe. Now I don't know the gentleman and he was clearly born and grew up in Italy but according to his Wikipedia article he has lived on the UK since the late 1960's thus the nationality with which he self-identifies might not be Italian. Boissière (talk) 21:15, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am familiar with WP:MOSFLAG, it states that "The flag icons were created for use in lists and tables" so no problems there. As for your comment of being "confusing/misleading or wrong". They are definately not wrong. For confusing/misleading, I note your point about Enzo residing in the UK; however, for example Arsene Wenger lives in Totteridge, London but people do not consider his nationality to be British. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 11:20, 29 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I peer reviewed this list, and with the addition fixes done here at FLC, it now meets WP:WIAFL.--SRX 02:44, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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