Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of African American Medal of Honor recipients/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Matthewedwards 15:25, 30 June 2009 [1].

List of African American Medal of Honor recipients[edit]

Nominator(s): Kumioko (talk) 20:19, 10 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Toolbox

I am nominating this for featured list because I have completely reconstructed it using the standard format for the other Medal of Honor lists and along with other contributors have gotten it to Featured List quality. Kumioko (talk) 20:19, 10 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)
  • Dabs; please check the disambiguation links identified in the toolbox. Dabomb87 (talk) 13:25, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done.--Kumioko (talk) 14:21, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lead is on the short side. You might mention/summarize the wars the recipients fought in.
Done. I combined the lead with the Medal of Honor section. --Kumioko (talk) 14:40, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "one of 19 men"-->1 of 19 men or one of nineteen
Done. --Kumioko (talk) 14:49, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "to be awarded two Medals of Honor"-->to have been awarded two Medals of Honor
Done. --Kumioko (talk) 15:00, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "While it was common for Civil War Medals of Honor to be awarded decades after the conflict ended, Andrew Jackson Smith's medal was not awarded until 2001, 137 years after the action in which he earned it." The flow is off. Try "It was common for Civil War Medals of Honor to be awarded decades after the conflict ended; in one case, Andrew Jackson Smith's medal was not awarded until 2001, 137 years after the action in which he earned it."
Done --Kumioko (talk) 14:49, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Em dashes in blank cells please. (—)
Done. --Kumioko (talk) 14:49, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Vernon Baker was the only living recipient - the other six men had been " Use an unspaced em dash, not a hyphen.
Done.--Kumioko (talk) 18:04, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Prior to"-->Before
Done. --Kumioko (talk) 14:40, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:31, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 15:31, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Ref 3 needs a publisher and last access date. Dabomb87 (talk) 14:00, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done. I removed this because it was basically a useless references anyway I and restructured the references section. I am also going to add a couple more references and expand the external links to include the publisher and access date. I also made some other minor changes that I noticed. --Kumioko (talk) 15:00, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I added references for the Medal of Honor citations for each of the wars that are listed on the list in the general sections. 1 question though and that is, should I put the inline citations first or the general citations? I think the inline should come first personally. --Kumioko (talk) 18:26, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved issues, ---Balloonman NO! I'm Spartacus! 02:23, 27 June 2009 (UTC))[reply]
Comments from Balloonman (talk · contribs)

Comments by Balloonman:

  • You have a lot of quotes in the Notes section, but none of them are cited. I would think that a reference would be needed for each of the quotes. Saying they are derived from the citation isn't enough, IMO. Where is the citation found? Is it online?
The general references cover these depending on the conflict or war.--Kumioko (talk) 13:11, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • It was common for Civil War Medals of Honor to be awarded decades after the conflict ended citation?
  • Based upon the above, it creates an interesting question, should we also have when the metal was awarded?
Only so much will fit in the table without it being unwieldy, I think they can go to the article for that.--Kumioko (talk) 13:11, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "grasped the flag, led the way to the" Should that be a capital G?
  • "remained steadfast at his post and" capital R? Several other places where the leading character should be capitalized. If not a full quote, I would think leading ... or [] with a capital would be needed? (I'm not an expert on the MOS, but that's my sense of things.) Need to go through and check them all (WWII and vietnam in particular)
For thse the comments in quotes may not represent the entire quote however they are word for word sections. For example on the list Robert Blake starts with "in" and the fill citation reads "On board the U.S. Steam Gunboat Marblehead off Legareville, Stono River, 25 December 1863, in an engagement with the enemy on John's Island. Serving the rifle gun, Blake, an escaped slave, carried out his duties bravely throughout the engagement which resulted in the enemy's abandonment of positions, leaving a caisson and one gun behind."--Kumioko (talk) 13:20, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Again, I'm not a MOS expert, but it doesn't look right to me... I would think that the correct format would be: "...in an engagement" or "[I]n an engagement". The first is *MY* preference, but I don't know which is correct. I only know that it looks wrong to me.---Balloonman NO! I'm Spartacus! 13:53, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

---Balloonman NO! I'm Spartacus! 07:13, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support---Balloonman NO! I'm Spartacus! 02:23, 27 June 2009 (UTC) Link comments[reply]

  • Medal of Honor should be linked in the first sentence of the lead.
Done. --Kumioko (talk) 13:11, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • United States should not be linked per WP:LINK.
Done.--Kumioko (talk) 13:11, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • African American should be linked on its first "appearance" in the lead, not in the last sentence of the third paragraph.
Done--Kumioko (talk) 13:11, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Medal of Honor is linked twice in the World War II section. Both links should be removed. TheLeftorium 12:46, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done.--Kumioko (talk) 13:11, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • More: World War II, United States armed forces, and "the Army" should be linked in the lead. TheLeftorium 13:18, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done--Kumioko (talk) 13:24, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Balloonman, yes, either of those would be fine; I guess where space is tight, you might use the square bracket option, since that does show it as starting mid-sentence. Otherwise, a non-breaking space between ellipsis dots and "... in. I see quite a few quotations that might be mid-sentence starters (Smith, Veele?).
Just for clarification which is preferred, I can do the elipses or the square brackets, I just don't want to do one and have someone come back and say the other is preferred. Just FYI once clarified I will also carry these comments over to the other Medal of Honor list articles starting with the ones that are already featured.--Kumioko (talk) 16:36, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • It would work much better in terms of table layout to rob horizontal space from "Name" and especially "Date" to pay the "Notes" column.
  • I've done a little cleaning up of the lead. "United States" three times in the opening sentence. Please check that it's "Army" but "armed forces" lower case. Plus other things. Next time, perhaps an independent set of eyes before nomination? It's an important list, culturally. We need to address this memory.``
Thanks, for the help, not sure what your saying about the Army, Armed forces comment could you clarify?--Kumioko (talk) 16:36, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link to WW2: if there's a section of the WW2 article that is relevant, please pipe it there rather than to the entire, huge article.
I looked and I don't see anywhere better to pipe too. Please feel free to take a look yourself and if you see a good fit please feek free to make the link.--Kumioko (talk) 16:42, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "several"—do we know how many? If not, fine.
Can you tell me where you are talking about on this one?--Kumioko (talk) 16:42, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the medal", but "Medal of Honor". Can you audit the use of upper and lower case? It should be lower if a generic reference, but here I gather there is only one medal at issue. Tony (talk) 16:25, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry not sure what your trying to say here either, could you clarify?--Kumioko (talk) 16:36, 21 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Basically, if you are using Medal as shorthand for Medal of Honor, then it should be capitalized. If you are using medal to represent a generic medal that one might win, then it should be lower case. Think of the use of God vs god.---Balloonman NO! I'm Spartacus! 14:46, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done.--Kumioko (talk) 22:34, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 07:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose
  • "88 have been awarded to 87 African American recipients" well, I think 88 were awarded to 87 different recipients.
Done. --Kumioko (talk) 13:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Its already linked in the Civil War section. --Kumioko (talk) 13:42, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...prize rebel ram Tennessee ..." is that really a ram?!
Done. Changed to ram --Kumioko (talk) 13:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Same ranking issue with Trumpeter, and Fireman.
Again, these are cited as the official ranks on the MOH citations although they are more like Navy rates (occupations) than ranks. Again I can move to the notes section and replace with an emdash for the rank if you think that would be more appropriate.--Kumioko (talk) 13:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not sure a link to German is really required.
Done. removed the link --Kumioko (talk) 13:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • What is FMF?
Done. Fleet Marine Force --Kumioko (talk) 13:49, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "smothering 2 enemy " not a quote so "smothering two enemy" - check for others.
Done. I didn't see any others but if you find one let me know. --Kumioko (talk) 13:55, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Inline refs 1 and 5 need accessdates.
Done. --Kumioko (talk) 13:48, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 12:04, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Confused about ordering of rank - Engineer's cook appears to rank higher than First Sergeant. Is this correct? And what rank is "Contraband"?
Well contraboand isn't a rank he was a captured slave but this is what is reported as the rank on the oficial MOH citation. If you prefer I can move to the notes section but I think it is noteworthy to mention that the medal was received by a person who was formerly a slave. Especially in the context of this article. --Kumioko (talk) 13:40, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I had no idea what contraband meant so a note would be useful for that specific "rank". As for the other "non" ranking ranks, I'd make sure they sort lower than the actual lowest ranks, i.e. below Private etc. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:40, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done. I fixed the sort order by making them zero. --Kumioko (talk) 11:37, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Still no sign of a note for what contraband means. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:47, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done. --Kumioko (talk) 19:19, 28 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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