Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate tournaments/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Giants2008 via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 4 August 2020 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of major Super Smash Bros. Ultimate tournaments[edit]

List of major Super Smash Bros. Ultimate tournaments (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 04:54, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list status because I believe that it meets all of the featured list criteria. Competitive Smash is the biggest it's ever been - current COVID-related hiccup not withstanding - and this is a comprehensive list of every major offline tournament held in the game thus far. The list itself should be easy to maintain going forward, as when events are happening, there's an average of 2 or 3 majors a month.

This is my first ever nomination at a Featured prose process. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 04:54, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:50, 3 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments on the lead
  • "Each player has a percentage meter which raises" => "Each player has a percentage meter which rises"
  • "(a fan-made mod of Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Project M, has also been played competitively)" - not sure how this relates to the rest of the sentence/is relevant
  • "Ultimate released in November 2018 to critical acclaim" => "Ultimate was released in November 2018 to critical acclaim"
  • "on route" => "en route"
  • Street Fighter V should be in italics
  • So should Injustice 2
  • "Tournaments held outside of the United States require less entrants" => "Tournaments held outside of the United States require fewer entrants"
  • Think that's it on the lead. I will look at the tables later -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:31, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ChrisTheDude: Thank you for the review. I've made all the changes except for the Project M change. The reason for its inclusion is to detail the competitive history of the franchise. Many Ultimate players previously competed in earlier titles, including Project M. Do you suggest that I restructure that sentance to make that point explicit, or remove mention of Project M as immaterial to this specific list? The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 15:08, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ah, I see, I get it now. It would probably be better to say "Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is the fifth officially released Smash Bros. title and the Nth to be played competitively. A fan-made mod of Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Project M, has also been played competitively." If all five official games have been played competitively then say "Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is the fifth officially released Smash Bros. title; all five have been played competitively, as has a fan-made mod of Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Project M." Does that make sense? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:13, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ChrisTheDude: I didn't see your suggested wording until after I made my change to the article, but I went back and used your wording because it was more concise. I added the sentence "Many of the top ranked Ultimate players were highly ranked in previous Smash Bros. titles." to tie the paragraph together, and dropped "Ultimate was released in November 2018 to critical acclaim" down to start the next paragraph. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 15:52, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comments on the tables
  • The date column sorts in alphabetical order of month rather than in actual date order. Use a {{dts}} template to make them sort correctly.
  • The prize pool column sorts on the symbol and amount, meaning than ¥0 is treated as a bigger value than $35,300. Use a {{sort}} template to make them sort in actual value order.
  • In the caption on the third photo, Glutonny can't be in the centre of two people
  • Presumably the B and C tournaments aren't listed because they aren't major? Should the title be List of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate major tournaments.....?
  • Think that's it on the tables...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:34, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • You are right, that would probably be the best wording -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:21, 30 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • +1 on "List of major Super Smash Bros. Ultimate tournaments" --PresN 16:37, 2 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Resolved comments from ~ HAL333 23:00, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments
  • Although I could understand, I think you should clarify that the tiers decrease in difficulty from S, A, B, to C. Also, do those stand for anything, particularly the S?
  • I would shorten "Panda Global Rankings Ultimate" to just PGRU in the final paragraph of the lede.
  • Not entirely necessary, but could you find a photo suitable for the lede image?

Nice job. ~ HAL333 17:18, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review HAL333.
I've linked to tier list and made the progression explicit.
I've made the change to Panda Global Rankings Ultimate in the last paragraph.
I scoured Flickr looking for a good crowd shot from a major and came up blank. I'll reach out to a few photographers and see what I can come up with.
The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 20:05, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support My concerns have been adequately addressed. Hopefully you can find a good picture, but don't sweat if you can't. ~ HAL333 23:00, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Harrias talk 20:52, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments from Harrias
  • Link esports on first use.
  • In light of the recent RFC on table captions (closed back in May) and how FLCs have to follow MOS:ACCESS, table captions should be included in both tables. This quote by PresN might apply to this list: "In the case that the table is the first thing in a section where the section header is essentially the same as what the caption would be, and therefore looks duplicative visually, you can make the caption screen reader-only with the {{sronly}} template, e.g. "|+ {{sronly|Example table caption}}" instead of "
  • Lots of locations linked that shouldn't be per WP:OVERLINK; Toyko, New York City, Toronto, Los Angeles, London are the most glaring, but honestly most of them could be unlinked.
  • As always, I'm not keen on the US-centric styling "City, State" for US locations, but simply "City, Country" for non-US countries, but this seems to be an argument I'm never going to win.
  • The date ranges in the tables need endashes, not hyphens.
  • The date for Glitch 7 needs a year adding.
  • Make the Refs column unsortable.
  • All the images require alt text per MOS:ACCIM, unless you consider them "purely decorative".

Overall a good quality list; mostly technical points to resolve. Note that I will claim WikiCup points for this review, and I would also appreciate it if you would consider taking a look over one of my own FLC nominations, such as Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/PCA Young Player of the Year/archive1. Harrias talk 07:59, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Responses in the order of your comments above:
  • Done.
  • Done, I think. Please let me know if I got it right.
  • Done. I delinked every city that didn't have a state in the article title.
  • I'm open to an alternate style if you have one you prefer. Should I be adding the country to US locations or adding the state/province to non-US ones?
  • I would add the country to the North American locations personally, though I note that you might not have the width to manage it. Possibly a note in the header, something like "Unless otherwise noted, location is in the United States"? (In which case, "Toronto, Ontario" would have to change to "Toronto, Canada".) Harrias talk 08:10, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Done
  • Done
  • Done
  • Done. Not sure how useful they are, so feel free to make improvements if you think they need them.
Sincerely, The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 01:22, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, all my concerns have been resolved. Harrias talk 20:52, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSAtalk 05:50, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
; Comments from Medusa.
  • Ultimate was released on December 7, 2018 to critical acclaim → on December 7, 2018, to critical
  • top ranked → top-ranked
  • class="wikitable sortable" → use plainrow headers makes it better
  • You added "! scope="row"" for one tournament; add it to all of the tournaments
  • 2GG should sort under "two"
  • The Big House 9 → sort under "Big House 9"
  • Add a led image.
  • Table references should be in the centre
  • It's all aesthetics, but I preferred the references left aligned, to match the rest of the table. Harrias talk 14:40, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I also prefer left-aligned for the same reason, but I looked at other FL candidates and they were all center aligned, so I decided to just do it instead of argue in hopes that the nomination would go smoothly. But since you brought it up, if it's not a deal-breaker for CAPTAIN MEDUSA, I'd prefer to change it back. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 19:52, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

May take some points for this review. On review. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:14, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably these players have real names? Maybe worth mentioning this? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:40, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a suitable link for "S-Tier" or simply "tier" in the caption? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:40, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Is it worth mentioning it's a fighting video game? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:40, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Could we split the lede up? MOS:LEDE has this as being 4 paragraphs max? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:40, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The lede goes into quite a bit on how the prize money is different from other competitions - but the tables just show the full prize pool. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:40, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
On that end, is it worth adding the "winner's share?" Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:40, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like something in the lede saying that the following lists cover S and A-Tier events, rather than just saying "major". Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:40, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am responding to your comments in the order they appear above:
1. They do, but given names are not commonly used in esports. If you asked 100 competitive Smash fans who "Gavin Dempsey" or "Tyler Martins" were, most would have no idea; but ask them who "Tweek" and "Marss" were and they'd know. While WP:COMMONNAME refers to article titles, I think the sentiment translates to this as well.
2. I had tier list linked in the lead. I've copied the link into the caption.
3. Done.
4. I've shortened the lead by removing most of the last paragraph and making one line a note.
5 and 6. For many tournaments, there are no reliable sources for prize pools. For those that do have sources, there is almost never a breakdown, or even a listing of the winner's take. Other Smash wikis assume the pool to be $10 per entrant, noting that it's an assumption (see here, note prize pool hover text), but that's not something I feel comfortable doing.
7. Done.
The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 23:18, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And you'd be right not to assume! I'm happy to support. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:14, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - pass

  • Doing now Aza24 (talk) 05:26, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very thorough formatting throughout. The only thing I would like to see is more links to the articles for websites/publishers since you link some (Metacritic, Variety, VG247) and not others (Wired, Polygon, Twitter, Newsweek, Gamespot, Daily Esports etc) Aza24 (talk) 05:41, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Aza24: I think I've now linked to everything that has an article (Daily Esports does not) with the exception of Twitter and YouTube, since those aren't publishers per se, they're mediums. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 08:32, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Good call with excluding links to Twitter and YouTube, the sourcing looks great now. Sorry to bother you with the tedious task of linking publishers/websites! Anyways, pass for the source review. Aza24 (talk) 23:00, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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