Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of United States Military Academy alumni (Medal of Honor)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Matthewedwards 01:43, 10 May 2009 [1].

List of United States Military Academy alumni (Medal of Honor)[edit]

Nominator(s): — Rlevse • Talk •
Toolbox

I am nominating this for featured list because it is the next in my long term work on service academy alumni. — Rlevse • Talk • 20:30, 18 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Truco
Lead
  • 'It is also called The Academy, The Point, and West Point. Sports media refer to the Academy as "Army" and the students as "Cadets"; this usage is officially endorsed.[1]' || This ref does not verify the first four names.
You've missed this on all the others;-) I fixed them too. Added a ref where they refer to themselves as the academy and west point. the point is short for WP. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:49, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Trying to be sneaky huh? :P--Truco 02:58, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'The football team is also known as "The Black Knights of the Hudson" and "The Black Knights".' || 1)Reword to The football team is also known as "The Black Knights of the Hudson", or simply "The Black Knights". 2)Specify what type of football this refers to.
Fixed. Other lists done too. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:01, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'Before the the founding of the United States Air Force Academy in 1955, the Academy was a major source of officers for the Air Force and its predecessors.' || I don't understand the use of 'predecessors' here, clarify?
The Air Force wasn't always called the Air Force, it would be wordy to explain all that so I've cut "predecessors". — Rlevse • Talk • 01:39, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That works.--Truco 02:58, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'The curriculum emphasizes the sciences and engineering fields.' || Who's curriculum?
Isn't that rather obvious? All the other alumni lists I've done have that. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:01, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I guess.--Truco 02:58, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'Of all alumni who have received the Medal of Honor, Humbert Roque Versace (Class of 1959) is the most recent recipient, and Paul William Bucha (Class of 1965) is the most recent graduate.' || The Paul William Bucha phrase isn't needed here since this list is about MOH recipients
He is an MOH recipient. It means Versace's is the most recently awarded (about 2002) Bucha graduated afer him but got the MOH before him. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:01, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Its not really clear though with the wording in the article.--Truco 02:58, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Julian tweaked it. — Rlevse • Talk • 03:08, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'In addition to the 81 Medal of Honor recipients who are alumni of the Academy, other notable alumni include 2 American Presidents, 4 additional heads of state, 18 astronauts, 70 Rhodes Scholars,[9] and 3 Heisman Trophy winners. Among American universities, the academy is fourth on the list of total winners for Rhodes Scholarships, seventh for Marshall Scholarships and fourth on the list of Hertz Fellowships.' || I never understood why this is relevant to this list?
All the other alumni lists I've done have that setup, kind of late to be changing now. It's relevant to show depth of achievement by alumni. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:39, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I guess its ok.--Truco 02:58, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
List
  • What does 'ex 1939' mean?
added a note at the top, it means they attended but did not graduate. This is explained in all the notability sections — Rlevse • Talk • 02:01, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I needed note :P--Truco 02:58, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • IDK, but on my screen resolution (which is wide) the images leave a lot of white space between the Civil War section and the one following that, possible remove 2 images. The same for the World War II section.
on mine the lists go way past the images, but oook. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:08, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you Rlevse, the images looked better before, now the right side looks empty.  Ahodges7   talk 02:20, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
So let's agree to put them back. We can't accomdate every resolution on every monitor in the world, just most of them. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:30, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Like I said, it could just be my reso.--Truco 02:58, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
References
Explain. It's the same as all the others that got to FL status and I don't see what you're talking about. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:19, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Three columns are usually allowed. –Juliancolton | Talk 02:51, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, but not every computer in the world can make 3 work, see the template instructions.--Truco 02:58, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
But it's not set to three, it's shows as two on two of my screens, so it must be your monitor again. — Rlevse • Talk • 03:02, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It's the colwidth. The inline citations are displayed through {{reflist}}—the number of columns depends on the monitor size. It's OK to do this, but it's not OK to display a reflist with a fixed number of columns—more than 3—(e.g. {{reflist|3}}). Bottom line, everything is OK here, move on. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:23, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Well then...--Truco 19:40, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is an inconsistency with the name of the "HomeOfHeroes.com" publisher, they should all be formatted as I mentioned.
Fixed — Rlevse • Talk • 02:19, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Goarmysports.com is not the publisher, United States Military Academy at West Point is the publisher.
Fixed — Rlevse • Talk • 02:19, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, the publisher of GoArmySports.com is the "Office of the Director of Intercollegiate Athletics", but the bottom of the webpage does say the copyright belongs to United States Military Academy at West Point.  Ahodges7   talk 02:24, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I just made it "United States Military Academy" for consistencies sake. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:28, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • For the Nightly News ref, its MSNBC not NBC.
Fixed — Rlevse • Talk • 02:19, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

--Truco 01:27, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support -- Previous issues resolved; list now meets WP:WIAFL.--Truco 19:40, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I added {{main}} at the top because I think it's important to have a visible link to the main list (perhaps you could add one to the other lists?). Is the hat tossing image really the best one to use as the lead image? I realize it shows graduates, but I'm assuming that none of them are actually in the list. Perhaps an image of the campus would work better? -- Scorpion0422 15:19, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Starting a list/article off with "main" simply doesn't set right with me. That's the whole purpose of the template at the bottom linking them all together, plus the template links all together not just the main one. Yes, hat tossing over a school photo as we're mainly dealing with grads here, not the curriculum, buildings, school history, etc. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:42, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 13:01, 1 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)
  • The ISO date in the image caption should be changed to month-day format.
Done but why is the image different from the refs? — Rlevse • Talk • 22:58, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "most recent graduate to receive the Medal of Honor. "-->most recent graduate to have received the Medal of Honor.
Done. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:58, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "2 American Presidents,"-->2 United States Presidents,
Done. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:58, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "prior to"-->before (two occurences in "Indian Wars" section)
Done. — Rlevse • Talk •
  • "Spanish-American War"-->Spanish–American War
Done. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:59, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dabomb87 (talk) 21:46, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:46, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 12:42, 1 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
*Comments
    • In the lead, Cadet is capitalised. Is this correct?
The US military has funny and inconsistent rules on this. In the USNA lists, Midshipmen is capiltalized. We should be consistent and those are already FLs. Let's be consistent and leave Cadet here UC. — Rlevse • Talk • 20:37, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No worries. Consistency is paramount, your expertise here equally so. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:00, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Humbert Roque Versace (Class of 1959) is the most recent recipient, and Paul William Bucha (Class of 1965) is the most recent graduate to have received the Medal of Honor. " reads strangely to me as you have "recipient" followed a more verbose "received the MOH" in the same sentence.
This is a tough one, Versace wasn't awarded it til 2002 or so, so he's the most recent one to be awarded it but Bucha was the last person to graduate to receive it, but he received long before Versace. Any ideas on how to improve this are welcome. — Rlevse • Talk • 20:40, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've re-read the sentence several times. Perhaps... "Humbert Roque Versace (Class of 1959) is the most recent recipient while Paul William Bucha (Class of 1965) is the most recent graduate to have received the award."? I understand it appears highly subjective and I wouldn't expect you to modify it based purely on my review. I cannot oppose on this alone so use your judgement. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:00, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
How about we ditch that and since we started that part with "fist actions", we cut Bucha and Versace and say "The last person to perform actions to be recognized with the Medal of Honor was Andre Lucas (Class of 1954)".? — Rlevse • Talk • 21:27, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good to me. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:40, 1 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done. — Rlevse • Talk • 09:55, 1 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • The "ex" class years don't sort properly. Look at the {{sort}} template, that should "sort" it out...
put the ex after the year to fix it. Done — Rlevse • Talk • 10:12, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ames - "for his for continuing "
Done — Rlevse • Talk • 12:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Don't think you need to continually link Medal of Honor in the table. In fact, you abbreviated it in the lead, so why not use the abbreviation in the table?
Done. — Rlevse • Talk • 20:54, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Beebe - "a fortified postiion"
Done — Rlevse • Talk • 10:12, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • McClemand - "at aBear Paw "
Done — Rlevse • Talk • 10:12, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • "which greatly crippled them" not literally. Perhaps crippled their ability to fight?
Done — Rlevse • Talk • 10:12, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Bell - " attacking 7 enemy " seven.
Done — Rlevse • Talk • 10:12, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Foley - "on 1966-11-05" could you not write this as prose?
Done — Rlevse • Talk • 10:12, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ref 88 is missing a 0 in the date field.
Done — Rlevse • Talk • 10:12, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments
    • Why do you have the "a" note as a general reference? It's used for George Ritter Burnett only, isn't it? Why is it a "general reference" and not an "inline citation"?
      • Because the ref provides a ton of info on all of them. — Rlevse • Talk • 09:56, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • If it provides info on all of them, then it should be listed as a general reference with an asterisk next to it. Right now, it looks as if it only provides info on Burnett. This format is very confusing and inconsistent with other WP:FLs. --Crzycheetah 19:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • The "b" note is used for everyone, so why can't you have just an asterisk next to the source under "general references" and remove all repetitive "b" notes?
      • I could, but there's more than one way to skin a cat ;-) — Rlevse • Talk • 09:56, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Yet in all FLs only one way is used...why should this be any different?--Crzycheetah 19:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • A problem to this solution would be nice. :) –Juliancolton | Talk 23:22, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • What is the difference between the source you used as "c" and any source in the "inline citations"? In other words, why is "c" listed in the "general references"?
      • Because the ref provides a ton of info on all of them. — Rlevse • Talk • 09:56, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • In short, there's a whole series of these lists and I like to keep them consistent in layout, format, etc. — Rlevse • Talk • 09:56, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize if you already answered these questions...--Crzycheetah 06:33, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Your response layout is so confusing I had to read it by using the diff. Over the course of the nine FLs I have to my credit, you're the first to complain about this, so I'd like more input. — Rlevse • Talk • 20:17, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Could you provide some links to your previous FLs? Thanks!--Crzycheetah 21:21, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Nevermind, I just found some. I see that you were using that way to list your references. OK, let's wait for more input.--Crzycheetah 21:29, 4 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment well I already support the list. I've reviewed and supported several of the other lists in this series, I see no major trauma in keeping them as a series with similar layouts. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:14, 8 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Images: I don't have time to do a full image review. But I clicked on a small sample and found no issues. In case no full image review is done, I'm assuming from what I've seen that they are okay. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 22:46, 9 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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