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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man 16:45, 5 March 2010 [1].

Philadelphia Athletics (1890–1891) all-time roster

[edit]
Nominator(s): Neonblak talk - 15:28, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Toolbox

I am nominating this for featured list because I feel it merits promotion, however, if reviewers notice issues I missed, I will quickly fix 'em.Neonblak talk - 15:28, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)
  • Pursuant to the discussion on this list's talk page, even though I largely agree the list is fine as is, there are definitely a couple things that are perhaps too detailed to be noted here (and that belong in the main article):
    • "Their intent was to break free from the standard business practices of the two leagues that they claimed stifled players' salaries; such as the reserve clause, and the Brush Classification System, as well as thier ability to sell players to another team without the consent of the player." I think this is too detailed for what should be a brief overview of the team's history.
    • "The Quakers were controlled by a group of investors, which included brothers G. W. and J. E. Wagner." Also irrelevant here, and also seems to be out of place in the paragraph.
  • "able to sign solid veterans players that included" Typo, and can I assume that "solid" is asserted based on information from the sources?
  • "were a short-lived Major League Baseball franchise that existenced for two seasons" Grammatical error, and remove "short-lived" and let the stats do the talking.
  • "due to great financial losses"-->because of great financial losses

More later. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:21, 2 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Made the changes suggested, also, the last line of the lead doesn't sit well with me, and it was pointed out at earlier all-time roster discussion that it is not needed, being that it is apparent to the reader what the article/list is, plus the header. Let me know what you think on this as well.Neonblak talk - 07:30, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I like the changes to the lead. Consider making similar cuts in your previously promoted FLs.
I will consider that, especially with the recently promoted Providence Grays all-time roster. It had length issues from the start.Neonblak talk - 18:05, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Although many players departed for new teams for the 1891 season, the Athletics signed replacements, including Gus Weyhing, Elton Chamberlain, and Pop Corkhill." "Although" signals some kind of unexpected turn of events, but it's not surprising that the team signed replacements after some of their existing players left, is it?
I tried to point out that these weren't just merely replacements, but good solid veterans. How about "Following the 1890 season, many players returned to their previous teams, however, they were able to sign quality veteran players, including Gus Weying, Elton Chamberlain, and Pop Corkhill."?Neonblak talk - 18:05, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds pretty good, except I would reword "however, they were able to" to "however, the Athletics were still able to" for clarity (if you have a more concise suggestion please implement it). Dabomb87 (talk) 22:13, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Used your suggestions. Sentence should be fixed now.Neonblak talk - 10:49, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the AA could no longer operate because of great financial losses, and were forced to fold" "were"-->was
  • "Matthews' career consisted of one game, and he collected one hit in three at bats." "and"-->in which
  • "Shindle had a batting average of .324, collected 21 doubles, 21 triples, 10 home runs, and 189 hits, while scoring 127 runs." Problems with parallel structure: "while scoring"-->and scored Dabomb87 (talk) 15:44, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed.Neonblak talk - 18:05, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:47, 17 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 17:45, 15 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • "(the Phillies (NL) and the Athletics (AA)) " don't like those double parentheses, perhaps "(the Phillies in the National League (NL) and the Athletics in the AA)"? You haven't noted what NL is by the way...
  • "and the others accepting buyouts.[10] The Athletics fell into the latter group" not keen on the "fell into the latter group", why not "others, including the Athletics, accepting buyouts."..?
  • "The following list comprises players on the the Philadelphia Athletics during its two seasons of existence." one too many "the", missing "roster" and no need for "of existence".
  • Do we normally have a space after a slash (e.g. C/ RF)?
  • You have win-loss and win–loss - be consistent.
  • I'd rather you didn't use abbreviations without expanding them first (e.g. RBI).

The Rambling Man (talk) 18:53, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • The parentheses and the last line were inserted by another user after my FL submission, I fixed them, the latter by eliminating the sentence entirely. I think that it wasn't needed, it's clearly a list of the franchises players. This has been discussed before at one of my previous FL noms, here. About the space between the players who played multiple positions, it was suggested during a previous nom that they should have one (just can't find it though), so I've stuck with it, and I think it looks better that way as well. I've fixed the other issue you mentioned.Neonblak talk - 11:31, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I just looked at my first list, and noticed that there were spaces before and after the slash, I will change not only this list, but make sure that all my other lists also comply.Neonblak talk - 11:41, 9 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Resolved comments from Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:03, 1 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comments – Partial list of comments through most of the players:
  • Charlie Buffinton: "for .530 winning percentage." Add "a" into there.
  • Tommy Corcoran: "scored 84 runs, hit 15 triples in 511 at bats, while leading all shortstops with 300 putouts." Add "and" before "hit".
  • Jim Fogerty: "and was the teams' initial manager." Move the apostrophe to inside the s.
  • Pat Friel: "It was the last of his two major league seasonsms' initial manager."
  • Charles Matthews: "Matthews' career consisted of one game, and collected one hit in three at bats." Missing "he" shortly after the comma.
  • George Meakim: "Meakim appeared in six games, had a 1–4 win–loss record, with a 6.94 earned run average." Missing "and" after first comma. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:25, 13 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
all fixed.Neonblak talk - 06:01, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ben Sanders: Missing "and" before "had".
  • George Wood: "and had batting averages of .289 and .309, and collected 109 runs batted in in 1890." Can we avoid having "and ..., and" as the structure for this sentence? It doesn't appear to be the best I've ever encountered.
  • Minor point, but I think the general reference needs another quotation mark in the front (this is a published book, correct?). Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:24, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
fixed all.Neonblak talk - 00:30, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Resolved comments from WFCforLife
Comments from WFCforLife
  • Infielder and relief pitcher can be removed from the positions table, as they're not used.
  • In the key, "seasons played" --> "seasons" for consistency with the column.
  • Charlie Buffinton: was 19–15 his complete playing record, or his record for the time when he was not player-manager? Also, "the first" --> "his first"; Fogarty was the first manager.
  • As this is a list about the players, it would be worth touching on a few playing statistics in the lead section. For example the highest batting average, lowest earned run average and most appearances.
  • Not really an FLC thing, but it would be worth linking to this from the team's main article.

Overall a fascinating read, and very nicely illustrated. WFCforLife (talk) 02:37, 24 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed all, if the career leader addition in the lead doesn't work, let me know.Neonblak talk - 00:23, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'll be willing to support if you can cite Wood, Milligan and Weyhling's bios in the lead, to back up the newly added statistics. WFCforLife (talk) 00:32, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Reference added, I missed that step...oops.Neonblak talk - 17:07, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support. WFCforLife (talk) 17:30, 26 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Truco
Comments from Truco (talk · contribs)
General
  • Everything in the toolbox checks out fine with the checker tools.
Lead
  • Instead of 'switched' why not 'joined the'? (After the demise of the PL following the 1890 season, the team switched to the American Association (AA) for the 1891 season, and were managed by Bill Sharsig and George Wood) seems smoother IMO.
  • This is a bit confusing, so the Quakers and Athletics mentioned in this sentence are different or the same? It makes it sound different with the wording especially with no dates mentioned (Despite the existence of established major league representation in Philadelphia, the Phillies of the National League (NL) and the Athletics of the AA, the Quakers were able to sign veteran players, including Buffinton, Billy Shindle, George Wood, and Ben Sanders)
  • Semicolon before however instead of a comma (Following the 1890 season, many players returned to their previous teams, however, the Athletics were able to sign quality veteran players, including Gus Weyhing, Elton Chamberlain, and Pop Corkhill.)
List
  • I would make Ref -> Ref.
References
Made the changes you suggested, the sentence wording may or may not clear things up. I use prefer to use Retrosheet for statistics, correct names, birth/death dates and places, and cemetery info. The website is information gathered by SABR, the foremost leader in historical baseball data. I do use baseball-reference for information not found on Retrosheet.Neonblak talk - 12:09, 1 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'll let that go since you do have a different general reference.--Truco 503 00:00, 5 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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