Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/WCW International World Heavyweight Championship/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 20:54, 13 February 2016 (UTC) [1].[reply]

WCW International World Heavyweight Championship[edit]

WCW International World Heavyweight Championship (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): GRAPPLE X 02:01, 9 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This is a short list but a complete one, on a topic I found particularly intriguing. I feel it meets the standalone criteria as it's niche enough that giving it a full treatment in any conceivable parent article would be unduly focussed. The list is based on other FLs within the subject area, and the text has been copyedited by Baffle gab1978, though any criticism on either is welcome. GRAPPLE X 02:01, 9 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from ChrisTheDude
  • "Over the title's history, eight championship reigns have been shared between four wrestlers" => "Over the title's history, eight championship reigns were shared between four wrestlers"
  • "Rick Rude held the championship the most often, with three title reignsis reigns" - something seems to have gone a bit haywire at the end there......
  • "the shortest reign of eight days; while Rude" - either lose the word "while", or change the semi-colon to a comma. Either is correct, but what is currently there is not
  • Fixed all three of these. GRAPPLE X 22:50, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Lex Luger was chosen as the successor to Flair's WCW World Heavyweight Championship......Masahiro Chono was appointed to hold his NWA championship" - Flair did not own either championship, also it doesn't read quite right to say that Chono was appointed champion, because that makes it sound like he was simply awarded it (I realise that in non-kayfabe terms he was technically awarded it, but hopefully you see what I'm getting at). I would re-word this whole bit as "Lex Luger was chosen as the next WCW World Heavyweight Champion. This championship would remain active throughout WCW's existence until the company merged with WWF;[3] Masahiro Chono was chosen to win a tournament designed to crown the next holder of the NWA championship"
  • Amended. I found it tricky trying to remain as non-kayfabe as possible without being explanatory to the point of condescension but I think the suggested change works well. GRAPPLE X 22:50, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's better now, but "Lex Luger was chosen as the next WCW World Heavyweight Champion, which would eventually be carried throughout WCW's existence until the company merged with WWF" kinda makes it sound like Luger held it for the whole of that time. How about "Lex Luger was chosen as the next holder of the WCW World Heavyweight Championship, which would remain the promotion's primary title throughout WCW's existence until the company merged with WWF"? BTW sorry for taking so long to reply, I forgot I'd commented here. My bad :-( -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:12, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • No problem, it's a volunteer effort after all. I made the suggested fix. GRAPPLE X 09:47, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The latter championship became the WCW International World Heavyweight Championship, and was renamed when WCW withdrew its membership of the NWA in September 1993" - I think this vastly over-simplifies the situation, also it sounds like one day the NWA title simply became the International title, for reasons unspecified, and after that WCW withdrew from the NWA. I think you need to say a lot more about how WCW had "control" of the NWA title but got into conflict with the NWA board over who would challenge for it, resulting in WCW withdrawing. You then also need to say that because WCW physically retained the Big Gold Belt they needed to come up with a title for it to represent, so dreamed up the International World title.
  • How does "As a result of WCW withdrawing its membership of the NWA in September 1993, Flair's NWA World Heavyweight Championship no longer carried the NWA name, but WCW retained the physical belt they had used to represent the title. This belt became the WCW International Heavyweight Championship." sound? GRAPPLE X 22:50, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Ric Flair was the first WCW International World Heavyweight Champion; he already held the title when it was renamed." - the title was not renamed, the two titles are separate. I would re-word this whole bit to "Ric Flair was the first WCW International World Heavyweight Champion; he had defeated Barry Windham for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship in July 1993 and held it at the point when WCW withdrew from the NWA two months later."
  • The physical title itself was renamed, was the intention there--as in, the big gold belt now carried a new name, which is why I've referred throughout to a "renaming". Flair didn't win something new, but the strap he carried was now being referred to as a newly-named championship, and although it's seen as having its own lineage the way this was accomplished was simply by the company calling it something new. GRAPPLE X 22:50, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "For a brief time, the championship was not officially named" => "For a brief time following WCW's withdrawal, the championship which Flair held was not officially named"
  • When sorting by no., the vacated "reign" jumps to the top. It needs to appear in the appropriate place
  • Fixed. Now sorts as though it's #7. GRAPPLE X 22:50, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the table you again refer to the NWA title as being renamed, which didn't happen. The note against the first reign should be changed to "Flair was the reigning NWA World Heavyweight Champion and became the first holder of the new title when WCW withdrew from the NWA"
  • As above, this simply refers to the point when the "big gold belt" started being called by the new name. I reworded it to stress that the strap itself was the thing that was renamed though. GRAPPLE X 22:50, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Three refs from Wrestlings-Titles.com - I don't think this is the correct title for the site
Hope this helps -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:49, 29 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - sorry, but I just spotted one more thing. "Masahiro Chono was chosen to win a tournament designed to crown the next holder of the NWA championship.[4] As a result of WCW withdrawing its membership of the NWA in September 1993, Flair's NWA World Heavyweight Championship no longer carried the NWA name...." - I think you need an extra sentence here to clarify that Flair returned to WCW and won the NWA title once again, because you talk about Chono winning it in the tourney but then jump to Flair holding it in 1993 and it's doubly confusing for the uninformed given that you previously talked about him holding it in 1991........... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:06, 24 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    Reworded to show he had won it again by then. GRAPPLE X 11:51, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - all seems good now -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:44, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 18:41, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • The first sentence is not great, the words "world" and "championship" appearing three times.
    I've tried to split this into two sentences, though I'm not sure it's a great change as the words still appear pretty much in the same proximity as before (minus one "world"). Does the sentence break alleviate this much, if any? GRAPPLE X 09:05, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • In fact, championship gets mentioned 12 times in the lead, and while I know this is about the championship, it's quite repetitive.
    Changed a few of these out for other terms, it's still frequently used but hopefully not as jarringly. GRAPPLE X 09:05, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Avoid linking the same phrase to different things, e.g. world heavyweight championship is linked to two different articles in the lead alone.
    I hadn't noticed the change that had crept in to the first use, this now points to its original target and is piped with a different term now as well. GRAPPLE X 09:05, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would link Hiroshi Hase in the lead.
    Fixed, not sure how I missed that. GRAPPLE X 09:05, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Sting held..." caption needs a full stop.
    Likewise. GRAPPLE X 09:05, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Days held doesn't sort quite right for me, I get <1 then — then <1...
    Sorted the "—" for both "Days held" and the number of reigns as though it were 0, so this should fix that issue. GRAPPLE X 09:05, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would split the refs using {{reflist|30em}}.
    Split. GRAPPLE X 09:05, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise a reasonably neat and tidy piece of work. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:12, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for taking a look at this one. GRAPPLE X 09:05, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note/Hint/etc. - I have my own FLC Candidate Mexican National Lightweight Championship and I figured giving is the best way of getting feedback. This is a wrestling article I have not personally edited except for perhaps a minor stylistic fix in the past so I believe I can give unbiased feedback

Comments

Lead
  • Two sentences back to back mentions "from 1993 to 1994", the second mention is redundant.
    Removed.
  • Works for me
  • The second paragraph in the lead, starting with "The championship originated" seems unclear to me and to me does not adequately explain that WCW made up the title to replace the NWA World Heavyweight title when they withdrew from the NWA.
    Tried clarifying it a little further, to show that they needed to do something with the belt itself.
  • That's better
Overview
  • "This match caused a back injury to Rude, which at the time was thought to be career-ending", makes it sound like Rude returned to wrestling later on, he did not though.
    Clarified that he retired from in-ring work.
  • Works for me
  • "now-vacant" should probably be "then-vacant", past tense.
    This is past-progressive tense, but I've changed it anyway.
  • Lol I have never been past-progressive before ;-)
  • "The last change of hands booked for the title" - I know what you want to say but this is a clunky sentence I would consider revising. In fact that whole last paragraph does not read well at all with run on sentences and convoluted prose.
    I've given it a pass over to trim sentences and be more direct.
  • Yeah definitly better
  • I think that a final note on the belt design being carried over into the WCW title and later the WWE version might be an interesting final note.
    I'll see if I can turn up something reliable that directly says as much, this is a good idea.
Table
  • Why is there a title over the table? That is not standard for wrestling title lists
    I use the title function for tables consistently; it was recommended in an old FLC as being beneficial to screenreader users.
  • That's not in the other wrestling championship lists, part of being a featured list is to be internally consistent with similar lists, this is not though.
  • It's a minor difference, the format of the list itself (the same tables, the same content in the tables, etc) is entirely consistent with the overall field of wrestling championships. I'd be reticent to remove something that aids readers just to bump the uniformity from 90% to 100%, to be honest.
  • Hey I respect honesty, and as a big wrestling championship list guy I can honestly say that I don't like the inconsistency, MPJ-US  23:32, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's fair enough, but it is required by the manual of style. GRAPPLE X 00:43, 30 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The — under "Days held" sorts odd when you keep clicking the sort arrows - it's between "Less than 1" and 8?
    I think the oddity lay with one of the "<1"s, but these now both sort as "0.1" so everything sorts in order.
  • Works for me
  • The notes section should be left aligned
    I've had to force this with some div code, which is a bit messy under the hood, but it looks okay.
  • Works for me
  • The color for the vacated line does not match the MOS, the vacated color is "e3e3e3"
    I matched the row to the exact colour the column and row cells are rather than adding a third colour; anything conveyed by the colour is also conveyed textually so it's within MOS.
  • For the Pro Wrestling tables the entire row is a different color, including the — at the beginning. Vacant having the same color as the general number row is misleading, it's calling out something is different. This is also a matter of being internally consistent with other wrestling championship lists.
  • Removed the colour, so the vacant reigns are the same as the standard ones; should no longer be calling the row out differently to the others.
  • that's actually worse IMO, the dark grey indicates that something out of the ordinary happened, a break in the lineage. MPJ-US  23:32, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wasn't that already being accomplished before? GRAPPLE X 00:43, 30 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • List of Combined reigns should be sortable
    Added sortability; I had originally left it off as both columns were already listed in the same order they would sort regardless but I guess now it can be viewed descending and ascending.
  • Works for me
  • List of Combined reigns also has a non-standard title
  • Again inconsistent with other title lists
Sources
  • Are there no other sources for the table than wrestling-titles.com?
    I'm sure there are, I just stopped looking after the first one.
  • Well thats... erm... reassuring? Not sure.
  • I didn't see the need to add additional sources if it was already covered; if you feel that doubling up on the references is necessary I can look for more but everything mentioned is cited.
  • Don't mind that, just being a smart all.

The list portion is more or less there, the text needs a little work but nothing that cannot be overcome.  MPJ-US  02:11, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@MPJ-DK: I have responded to or addressed most of your comments; still researching one of them. Thank you for having a look at this. GRAPPLE X 12:00, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Grapple X: - Looked over the article, have a few things I still don't agree with.  MPJ-US  00:37, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Source review. One minor tweak made, but all sources are reliable, the formatting is good, and spot checks show good use of sources and no close copying. – SchroCat (talk) 23:58, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support on prose and formatting, etc (no idea on the content – this is an alien field for me! Nice article. – SchroCat (talk) 23:58, 10 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, this has been sitting her too long! Closing, passed. --PresN 19:51, 11 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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