Wikipedia:Featured list removal candidates/List of Virtual Boy games/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list removal nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was kept by User:Sephiroth BCR 04:20, 21 January 2009 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of Virtual Boy games[edit]

Notified: Remurmur, WP VG.

Fails Cr.2 and intro because the lead is insufficient and the article needs inline citations. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:22, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Short list = short lead. What more information do you want? And I'm highly against citation clutter. This link covers everything. There's no need to directly cite anything.--Remurmur (talk) 03:00, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delist - short prose/lead, fails Cr 1 and 2. In addition, more referencing is needed to verify the entire list.--SRX 03:02, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
The prose needs to summarize the list more, stating what was the first release, the most recent, etc.--Truco 03:07, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
Keep - The prose now meets featured standards and the article meets WP:WIAFL. Good work to the contributors.--TRUCO 01:48, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments: Ok firstly whats with the red and pink, is that neccessary? Secondly is there much point in listing the title twice is it was released under the same name in both north america and japan, eg. Mario Clash. Salavat (talk) 03:03, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I'm just going to get frustrated if I try to deal with this, so I suggest that anyone that has an issue with the list just be bold and fix it themselves. All the information that's needed is already there, so anything left to do is just squabblings over formatting. If the community can't fix up a 22-entry list then I'm going to lose faith in Wikipedia being a team effort.--Remurmur (talk) 03:23, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is a review process on an item of featured content. The nominator or reviewers are not required to work on the article; those interested in the article retaining the article's featured status are the only ones obligated to. The lead is inadequate, the table is awful (not sortable, flags, bad coloring), the prose throughout the article needs touching, and inline citations are needed. Trying to trivialize what is needed for the list to retain its featured status as "squabblings over formatting" is insulting. Either work on addressing the issues brought up or don't bother commenting. — sephiroth bcr (converse) 06:36, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See the current Featured Lists—add background info on the Virtual Boy Games; what are some defining features of the Virtual Boy console? Write about the best-selling games, other notable games. Note that Featured Lists do not start "This is a list of..." anymore. If you don't add citations to the table, that is fine, but add them to the cancelled games section and the lead, when it is expanded. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:28, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I will try to help improve the article when I can, though I cannot promise anything. Signing off for today. Dabomb87 (talk) 04:31, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note — Colors now gone (It seems to be a common complaint even with the original FL-nomination.) as well as the flag icons, now replaced with simple country codes, which should make it easier as far as usability is concerned. Still working on adding references to every game in the list in my 2nd sandbox. It is acknowledged that the lead and the list of cancelled games still need work. MuZemike (talk) 07:26, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I also made the table sortable if that helps any. (I would think not with a short list like this.) MuZemike (talk) 07:27, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Better. Have the titles in two columns, one for the English title and the other for the original Japanese title. Wikilink all the company names as the table is sortable. I would separate the dates into two columns also for NA and JP release dates. Lead still needs work, but this is a start. — sephiroth bcr (converse) 09:56, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note — added inline references to every released title on the list. MuZemike (talk) 20:14, 13 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question — the only source for the list of cancelled games are on Planet Virtual Boy, which is nothing more than a fansite. I am inclined to remove that entire section altogether as the site itself doesn't readily pass for verifiability. Suggestions/thoughts? MuZemike (talk) 20:20, 13 December 2008 (UTC)1[reply]
    • Found this on someone's user space. It may have useful links, I didn't really check. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:59, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • They use the same fansite that I have just mentioned. We have to use some sort of reliable source, whether it be primary or secondary, to verify that these were in the making and cancelled. MuZemike (talk) 16:39, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Disregard. I get what you mean with regards to the magazine sourcing for only a couple of the games. They can be thrown into the main sortable list if verifiable. MuZemike (talk) 16:42, 14 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments – when we meant inline citations, we meant for the lead and the cancelled games section. Just split the references section using ";General" and ";Specific", with the PDF file for the games going in the general section and all inline citations in the specific section (see this for an example). This makes the current inline citations unnecessary (and I'm fairly sure using any part of GameFAQs is bad per WP:RS in any case). The lead still needs expanding. A brief history of the console and the games is all that's needed (see List of Sega 32X games for an example). As for the table, all the company names under the "publisher" column need to be wikilinked since the table is sortable. Good progress though. — sephiroth bcr (converse) 12:49, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • As far as GameFAQs are concerned, WP:VG/S#Situational sources allows it only for release data and if no other sources are available, which is the case here (at least I consider GameFAQs to be a bit more reliable than any old fansite, which was where the Japanese release information was coming from); that is, I have still yet to find reliable sources regarding Japanese release information for Virtual Boy, Famicom, etc.
I will make the necessary corrections and try to work on the lead. I am also planning to remove the cancelled games list until they can be backed with verifiable information. Any verifiable cancelled titles can be added onto the main list. MuZemike (talk) 22:19, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Reworked the lead and made it more like the lead in the List of Sega 32X games Featured List. References for verification are included when needed. MuZemike (talk) 23:43, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Very nice, will take a closer look later. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:55, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Good job on expanding the lead and referencing. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:23, 1 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just as a final concern, you never got around to changing the references to "General" and "Specific" sections. For all the refs currently using ref #4 (the PDF), make that the general ref and excise all the inline refs in the table. Great work though. — sephiroth bcr (converse) 18:46, 1 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • What do you mean? Like removing the citations from that column and placing one single citation on top of that column? MuZemike 19:00, 9 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Lead seems appropriate to me, given the list's content and its overall length. I'm not sure what else could be added to the introduction to expand it. Drewcifer (talk) 22:07, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that the lead could easily be expanded. For example, how many games were released in total? What was the best seller? etc. --TorsodogTalk 19:24, 7 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Expanded the lead; split into two paragraphs and listing the reasons for the Virtual Boy's failure. There's not really any coverage of best-selling games that I can find, as any such coverage were likely overshadowed by coverage of the console's humongous failure. MuZemike 18:51, 9 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good. However, I am concerned about undue weight being given to the console itself rather than the games, which is the focus of this list. Not asking for a lot more, just a sentence or two about the games. For examples, you might mention that out of the total number of games released (whatever that may be), fourteen were released in North America. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:25, 9 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Also, like Truco said above, the lead needs to summarize the list a little more; what was the first game released, the last, the best-selling (if info can be found)? Dabomb87 (talk) 15:41, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
MuZemike has been notified to revisit here. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:10, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
OK, added two sentences regarding the final game released (3D Tetris) as well as the total number of games released, noting that only 14 were released in North America. I also added the top games released for the console, according to a "Top 5" list in an old 1996 issue of Nintendo Power. MuZemike 01:39, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Nice. All my concerns have been resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:44, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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