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Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima, 2

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Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 6 Sep 2018 at 18:47:32 (UTC)

Original – Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima, by Joe Rosenthal
Retouched by Alexis Jazz, third version – Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima, by Joe Rosenthal
Retouched 2 by Bammesk, second version – Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima, by Joe Rosenthal
Reason
iconic photograph. After a long debate, it finally appears that the copyright was not renewed.
Articles in which this image appears
Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima
FP category for this image
Wikipedia:Featured pictures/History/World War II
Creator
Joe Rosenthal

Retouch discussion

[edit]
@GreenMeansGo: the sky was blurred. Alexis Jazz (talk) 14:38, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I uploaded another retouch, Retouched 2, made from the higher quality original that Alexis Jazz gave us here. Both retouched noms are worthy of support. My upload has less artifacts and is a bit sharper along soldier/background boundaries, smoother left valley, smoother background between soldier's arms/legs, and I touched up the lower left edge. Also touched up a couple of spots based on the negative image here: [9], [10](no longer so, see below). I Support both retouches but prefer Retouch 2 (revised vote below). Bammesk (talk) 04:06, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well I'll say that I prefer some retouched version to the original, but my retouching expertise is mediocre at best, and so I don't pretend to have an authoritative opinion on which version is better. GMGtalk 14:44, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@MER-C: can you say why? Perhaps I can improve my version. Alexis Jazz (talk) 00:25, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Retouch 1 has sufficiently improved over #2 in the time since I wrote that comment. I now prefer #1 as the specs that were there are there no longer. MER-C 15:34, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Revisiting this after the dust has settled, I prefer #2 due to the white streak on the side. MER-C 11:40, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I suppose I prefer #2, but two comments: (1) why is the [rivet?] on the helmet of the soldier on the right noticeably brighter in just that version? (2) in both retouches there's a space between the leftmost and second leftmost soldiers, around waist level, that looks to be actually a gap between them rather than a blemish on the photo itself, but it's smoothed out... (in case that isn't clear I've added an annotation to that image on Commons here. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 20:00, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That's not a gap but actually light that is reflected off of the handle of a holstered knife, more easily seen in File:Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima, by Joe Rosenthal.jpg. I've corrected my version accordingly. Alexis Jazz (talk) 00:25, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rhododendrites, I don't understand your first question? About question 2: as I said above, I used the negative image here: [11], [12] as a guide. The gap is smaller in the negative, that's what I went by. However looking at the negative more carefully, it has bleeding (or diffusion) because it is old, which would make the gaps smaller. So I did a recheck of all gaps, and compared the print gaps to the negative gaps, and it turns out all print gaps are a few pixels wider than the negative gaps. So going strictly by the negative is not a good idea (because of the bleeding). I redid the gap and did an upload (also redid another tiny gap/spot at shoulder level, plus helmet of left soldier, the things I had relied on the negative for). Thanks for the question! Bammesk (talk) 00:34, 6 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Rhododendrites: Can you say what you mean in your first question? Nothing “on the helmet of the soldier on the right” is “noticeably brighter” in any version! Bammesk (talk) 12:14, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@GreenMeansGo: I agree. I'm not sure if we are done retouching (unless someone points out flaws in my version, I am) but if we are it still leaves us with three images to pick from. Since I created one of them, I support all three. There are arguments for sticking to the original and between the retouched versions it'll largely be matter of taste. Bammesk filled in the gaps one way, I did it another way. Alexis Jazz (talk) 10:51, 7 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@GreenMeansGo: As I said, I support all three. But I will say this: when I added to/updated Wikipedias, I used the original. Leaving it to the Wikipedias to switch to a retouched version. No Wikipedia (zero, not Norsk Wikipedia) (zero, the number, not Wikipedia Zero) made the switch. - Alexis Jazz 18:46, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think I very slightly prefer Retouched 2, because of the area to the right of and below the leftmost soldier's right foot looks a lot better in this one. I think that tilts the balance to let this be closed. @Armbrust:? Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 8.9% of all FPs 17:09, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looking at this some more, I withdraw my support for "both" and now support retouched 2 only. A) The original and retouched 1 have a white strip on the lower-left edge of the image. This is fixed in retouched 2. B) In retouched 1, the noise reduction (blurring) of the sky area is uneven, some areas are heavily blurred, other areas not at all. For example, in retouched 1 the sky area near the lower-right edge of the image, and sky areas adjacent to soldier's bodies have no blurring and are identical to the original image. In retouched 2 the sky noise is blurred uniformly everywhere. C) Looking at the original image, the background field (the far hill behind the foreground rubble) has similar noise/grain as the sky. That area is slightly denoised in retouched 2, not in retouched 1. D) The original has a scanning artifact along the edge of the flagpole (bottom portion of flagpole), visible when enlarged, say at 200%. The artifact appears as a white line along the pole's left edge. There are similar artifacts elsewhere along the edge of soldiers' clothing. These artifacts are removed in retouched 2, not in retouched 1. Bammesk (talk) 02:01, 13 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Promoted File:Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima by Joe Rosenthal retouched 2.jpg --feminist (talk) 09:04, 7 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]