Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Schools

The following is an archived discussion of a featured portal candidate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the portal's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured portal candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The portal was promoted by User:Cirt 15:33, 22 December 2008 [1].

Portal:Schools[edit]

After receiving enthusiastic comments and running out of ideas, I've decided to nominate the Schools Portal for featured status. Many thanks, --Jh12 (talk) 18:35, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Some of the selected pictures need to be reduced in size to fit properly in the box. RichardF (talk) 19:11, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What screen resolution and browser are you using? --Jh12 (talk) 19:31, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

1024X768 using IE7. RichardF (talk) 20:07, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I'll make sure to continue checking on on IE7 as well. --Jh12 (talk) 20:14, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've reduced the images by about half. I've been checking the portal on Windows XP with Firefox 3.0.1 and Internet Explorer 7 on a 1024x768 screen resolution so I apologize if I messed up on the image sizes. --Jh12 (talk) 20:03, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Portal:Schools/Selected picture/Layout is set to width=200px. Portal:Education/Selected picture/Layout is set to width=300px. That seems to work just fine, as long as the frame is taken into account as well. RichardF (talk) 20:15, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've changed the schools layout width to 300px. --Jh12 (talk) 20:27, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The individual "size=" values seem to be set on the individual pages. These will override the default. You might want to remove those in some cases. RichardF (talk) 20:32, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if it makes any sense, but I removed the forced pixel size for basically all the images unless their height was significantly greater than their width. --Jh12 (talk) 20:57, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, default for "landscape" and custom for "portrait." :-) RichardF (talk) 21:28, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Questions. Why is no selected biography section included? Why is no events-related section (e.g., news &/or anniversaries) included? RichardF (talk) 21:37, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The schools project doesn't actually handle educators, only primary and secondary schools. I'm not sure about the news section. We're a child of the education project, and school-issues are merged with that subject. Would another project have to be set up at Wikinews, or a department at Wikiproject Schools? I have to admit, we can't even get enough editors for proper collaboration efforts. But the idea for school events/news is a good one. --Jh12 (talk) 22:22, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - No project is necessary to create a portal. It just makes sense to coordinate efforts, when applicable. That gets to a question I almost asked before you changed the topics section from education to schools articles, for the most part. Many links still relate to education, rather than schools, such as in the projects section and Wikimedia section. So the question is, to what extent is the content at Portal:Schools intended to be distinct from that at Portal:Education? In this case, I personally consider any biographies and events with clear connections to specific schools as fair game. Otherwise, this might as well be a subportal of Portal:Architecture. RichardF (talk) 23:44, 5 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    - Wow, that's an excellent question. It goes to the root of what Wikipedia:WikiProject Schools is, which is a project about individual primary and secondary schools: their history, curriculum, extracurricular activities, and a list of notable alumni. WikiProject Education and its portal is not supposed to cover individual schools but rather the concept of schools, universities, and education in general. This project also covers school districts, athletic conferences/associations, and school organizations. Partly due to a lack of participation at WP:Education and because the topics and issues are inter-related, WikiProject schools has adopted some articles (Secondary school is now covered by both projects). Strictly speaking, however, this portal is designed to cover any school that is not post-secondary. That's what the project is focused on, and there are over 130,000 of them just in the United States.[2] I thought the additional links to education topics were relevant because they are pretty closely related. But if there's confusion or too much overlap with education, I could remove them: previously the only links were for WP:Schools and WP:Education. --Jh12 (talk) 00:24, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      - Portals and projects are not the same, and there is no requirement a portal covers the same scope of any particular project. In fact, most portals span the scopes of more than one project. I believe one implication of your comments is that this portal should include content with clear connections to specific schools or "their history, curriculum, extracurricular activities, and ... notable alumni." From that perspective, it sounds like a selected biography section should be included. Notable school-realted events, current & historical, should be included as well.
Biography I'm still unsure about; I feel like educators on their own are notable not because of their work at a specific school, but because of their work for education in general. The same goes for alumni. The school is famous for having the alumni, but the alumni aren't famous because they were at the school in and of itself. School-related events I can definitely see. I would imagine such a section would include articles like the Little Rock Nine, the Red Guards (China), the Columbine High School massacre, and the Jena Six. I guess the original thought was to keep the portal simple; it's the wpschool portal and that's who maintains it. But from what I'm getting, the schools portal is supposed to stretch out into education, sociology, criminology, and more. Gosh, I guess it's not quite at featured status after all --Jh12 (talk) 01:39, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There certainly are notable educators associated with schools, e.g., Erin Gruwell and Joe Louis Clark. The question is more about whether any such articles are good enough to include in the portal. Also, a limited scope portal is fine, just don't expect it to make featured status. RichardF (talk) 01:59, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I guess I was actually hoping to focus people's attention on the countless Wikipedia school articles. Perhaps that's too narrow-minded, or part of a pipe dream that more people will join the chronically understaffed schools project. --Jh12 (talk) 04:59, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I still have mixed feelings about expanding the scope of this portal, given that WikiProject Schools already covers the complexities of over 21,000+ distinct school articles, almost seven times as many articles as WikiProject Education. Nevertheless, I would like to know how exactly one sets up WikiNews for schools, or would it be better to have a selected anniversary or events section? --Jh12 (talk) 23:26, 7 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What I've been suggesting doesn't involve expanding the scope of the portal, just adding sections within the existing scope. An automated WikiNews feed wouldn't work because it doesn't have a schools category. Any additions of news items from here or there would have to be selected manually. Doing something like "In this month," like at Portal:Oregon probably is more doable. RichardF (talk) 02:27, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Per the suggestions, I've added a biography section (currently with 11 biographies) and an "In this month" section. I tried to go through every day of the year starting with January 1 and every WPSchool article rated Top and most rated High for additional events. Each month currently has at least three events; I'm hoping people see my messages at the WPSchool, Australia, and Canada education projects and throw in some more ideas. Although I was reluctant to add the sections at first, I think the portal does look pretty nice and more filled out with them. --Jh12 (talk) 02:33, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Now at 24 articles, 22 pictures, 19x3 DYK, and 16 biographies. --Jh12 (talk) 19:54, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Now at 25 articles, 24 pictures, 19x3 DYK, and 16 biographies. --Jh12 (talk) 17:34, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Cirt (talk) (addressed)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Comments

Selected biography - section could use 3 or more selections added into rotation. Cirt (talk) 19:17, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Selected picture - a majority of the credits could use wikilinks to the relevant userpages or external links to the relevant party credited. Cirt (talk) 19:17, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done I hope. Unfortunately, some of these users have apparently left Wikipedia, but I have credited and linked their user names as the image tags indicated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jh12 (talk • contribs)
Please do not mark things with {{done}} - usually in WP:FACs that it is left to the commenter, not the nominator, to signify if something has been sufficiently addressed. (Though they don't use the {{done}} icon over there anymore but just the bolded word Done.) As for this particular point some of the credits are redlinks - in some cases to turn them blue you might be able to link to the users' talk pages instead of userpages if they don't have a userpage. Cirt (talk) 06:19, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I converted all the redlinks I could to the talk pages. --Jh12 (talk) 21:04, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Things you can do - looks a bit clunky with everything pushed to the left side like that, take a look at Portal:Sustainable development for a good model. Cirt (talk) 19:17, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Done —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jh12 (talk • contribs)
Not done - Still some issues with a big block of space at the top after the first line, and the italicized portion at the bottom - if that is inactive, why mention it? Seems like something more for a WikiProject page instead. Cirt (talk) 06:22, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I removed the inactive school watch and reduced the size of the section. --Jh12 (talk) 21:04, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Wikiversity - Not really sure this needs it own subsection, for one it is so small, and second it is a dup to the Associated Wikimedia section. Cirt (talk) 19:17, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure it does either. It's a legacy from an older version of the portal. If it becomes an issue, I'll drop it down into associated wikimedia. --Jh12 (talk) 20:21, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That would be best, IMO. Looks a bit self-referential and I think it would be better off in Associated Wikimedia and not as its own subsection. Cirt (talk) 06:22, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The section has been removed. --Jh12 (talk) 21:04, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Selected anniversaries - Missing a whole bunch of sections (including August), and lots of redlinks. This should be addressed. Cirt (talk) 19:17, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I just started adding the anniversaries and biographies two days ago per the comments above. I've been recruiting for help at WikiProject Schools, but we haven't come up with anything for August yet. --Jh12 (talk) 20:21, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I do apologize for taking so long with the anniversaries. I have upgraded the number of biographies to 10, but it's slow going finding stuff to place in the anniversaries section. --Jh12 (talk) 12:37, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Still a work in progress. I'll be asking for input at other WikiProjects. Were there other areas on Wikipedia where I could canvass for additional ideas? --Jh12 (talk) 21:04, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Related portals - I'd imagine there must be a few more related portals that could go in there. Cirt (talk) 19:17, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Added a few more portals. Please let me know if it needs even more. --Jh12 (talk) 20:21, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Looks great. Cirt (talk) 06:24, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Optional - a Selected quote section like at Portal:Sustainable development would be a nice addition to the portal. Cirt (talk) 19:17, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support. My thanks to Jh12 (talk · contribs) for the excellent work in addressing the points I raised above. The only things left to do are to fill in the missing sections at Portal:Schools/Selected anniversaries and fill out those other months where there are only a few dates listed. Also, it would not hurt to add a randomized Selected quote section like at Portal:Sustainable development, but this is certainly not necessary for WP:FPORT status, IMO. Cirt (talk) 23:30, 6 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Well done. Anniversaries are finished now too. Time for this portal's advancement. -SusanLesch (talk) 18:37, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Jh12 took our feedback to heart and did an excellent job of elevating the quality of this portal. RichardF (talk) 22:01, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.