Wikipedia:Peer review/Beautiful Monsters Tour/archive1

Beautiful Monsters Tour

I've listed this article for peer review because I feel it is already complete and near ready for GA.

Thanks, Red marquis (talk) 02:07, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Hi. As you know, I've gone through the article. I made some changes to prose, and I've fixed several URL redirects found in the MTV sources. There are no other issues to be found here. As far as I can make out, this article meets Wikipedia:Good article criteria and is ready for nomination. Good work. =) Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Comment—Hi Red marquis. Your article has 17 KB of prose, which is not enough for a four-paragraph lead. You may receive objection there in a GA review, as MOS:LEAD is part of the GA criteria. I would strongly suggest a concise, well-summarized lead with two medium-sized or three small paragraphs. The Wikipedian Penguin 13:28, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the input. I'll look into the how I can reduce the size of the lede. =) -Red marquis (talk) 15:56, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Made changes to shorten lede. How does this look? -Red marquis (talk) 14:13, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Still rather big. I suggest an average of three or four sentences per paragraph. This is a GA nomination I once reviewed at the time of its promotion with a similar amount of prose, and the lead size you should be aiming for. Good luck! The Wikipedian Penguin 16:41, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Lede has been pruned even further. Has it hit the sweet spot? -Red marquis (talk) 10:49, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Anymore? -Red marquis (talk) 13:55, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Comments from JM

At first glance, this looks like an article that is ready for GAC. My view may change once I've looked a little more closely. Here I go...

• The rationale on the poster image needs to be tidied up. Also, where's the evidence that it's been released for non-commercial/educational use?
• Your double bill wikilink goes to an article about films.

Changed to co-headlining tour; also added article to Category:Co-headlining concert tours. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• The phrase "the frontperson of both bands" suggests that there are two bands which share a frontperson. You mean "the bands' respective frontpersons [or frontpeople]", but I do note that the OED doesn't list the word "frontperson". Same issue later in the same paragraph; also, you link "frontperson" at the second mention rather than the first.

Changed to "However, due to a highly publicized quarrel between the bands' respective lead vocalists,". Seemed to make the most sense. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "Hole's management, Q Prime". How about management company?

Done. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "However, Hole's management aggressively pursued Marilyn Manson amid her and singer Marilyn Manson's" Confusing to the uniniated (also, you've already linked the band). How about something like "However, Hole's management aggressively pursued the band Marilyn Manson, even amid the quarrel between her and Marilyn Manson's singer, also known as Marilyn Manson, ..." I'm not certain, but something to think on.

Changed to "However, Hole's management aggressively pursued Marilyn Manson's (links to person) eponymous band, even amid the quarrel between her and the band's singer." Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "The Long Hard Road Out Of Hell" of rather than Of (several times)

Removed. It no longer made sense in lead with the above changes implemented. Also fixed later instances of ...Out of Hell. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• Do we have an article on the Korn/Rob Zombie tour to link to in the lead?

Nope. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "Hole's management, Q Prime," As above

Done. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• Do we really need the subsection titles in "Background and development"? They strike me as unnecessary.

I agree. That subsection isn't long enough to warrant subheadings. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• Be aware of MOS:LQ

Fixed. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "He had reservations about Love, whom he pejoratively described in an interview with New Musical Express as "an opportunist" that he felt tried to exploit his band's newfound fame to bolster theirs" This sentence seems to turn Love into an object rather than a person. How about "He had reservations about Love, whom he pejoratively described in an interview with New Musical Express as "an opportunist" whom he felt tried to exploit his band's newfound fame to bolster hers."

Changed. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "Manson accepted the offer to support their own third studio album Mechanical Animals" If you mean the band, you should spell it out fully. "Manson" surely refers only to the person

That statement is referring to the lead singer. I changed "their" to "his band's" to avoid any future confusion. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "Melissa Auf Der Maur" Shouldn't this be der rather than Der? (Other examples.)

Her article is capitalised as Melissa Auf der Maur, so you're right. Fixed. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "Manson and his band voted for early 1980s Brit-pop groups like Fun Boy Three and Fine Young Cannibals; while members of Hole wanted "more modern" bands." That semi-colon should just be a comma.

Done. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "who chose Imperial Teen" Link, please?

Done. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "Another stipulation in their negotiation was the cost of mounting each show, which resulted in revenues earned being split an even 50/50 between the two bands.[5][9]" This doesn't quite work, grammatically, and doesn't quite match what is said in the lead

I don't know if this is much better, but I've changed that to: "During their negotiations, both band's agreed to split the cost of producing each show, which resulted in Hole unwittingly financing most of Manson's production costs at their own expense. The revenue earned at each show would be split 50/50 between the two bands." Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "mutual admiration for one another" "mutual" implies "for one another"- you can remove the latter

Done. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "The allusion also extended to the polarity between each group's approach to the change.[3] Hole revamped their grunge sound into 'wholesome high-sheen, glitzy' alternative pop, while Marilyn Manson abandoned goth subculture-tinged industrial metal in favor of a hedonistic 'David Bowie-like glam rock'." Why single quote marks?

Done. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "The tour was covered extensively by MTV who anticipated the tour" Repetition

Changed to "The tour was covered extensively by MTV who anticipated it being a "potentially volatile mix"." Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• Is "banter" not a little colloquial?

I don't believe so, but I've changed it to "Love frequently joked with the audience in-between songs."

• "a 'lewd remark' about" Again

Removed single quotations. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "stomping ground" is a little colloquial

Changed to "scene". Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "receptical [sic]" If this was spoken, how could it be misspelled? You should just correct MTV's mistake.

Changed to "receptacle" Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "Manson initially resisted responding to Love's criticism during their turn on stage" Again- "Manson" is the person rather than the band, I would have thought.

Statement refers to the front person. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "However, after they performed their single, "The Dope Show", Manson" You should lose the comma after "single". The name is not a clause subordinate to the clause beginning "after"- it's part of it.

Done. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "Pamela Fallon refuted the announcement" I think refute is a bit strong. Challenged might be better.

Changed to "challenged" Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "the inability among the two groups to resolve" How about of rather than among?

Done. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "that contain rare and unreleased footage including" In what way was the footage "rare"?

Changed to "which contained unreleased footage" Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• "Instagram ... Billy Corgan" Wikilinks?

Done. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

• You don't need to italicise "Rutgers University Press".

Fixed. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Your sources look great- there's a heavy reliance on MTV, but that's not a problem for GAC. As you can see, most of my comment are for rather small issues, and I've no doubt that this article will be ready for (and will easily pass) a GA review once you've dealt with my comments. Nice work! Josh Milburn (talk) 13:17, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the input! I'm on it!. =) -Red marquis (talk) 00:06, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

I've taken the liberty of sorting out almost everything @J Milburn: mentioned above. I'm not all that familiar with Wiki's image licensing policy (aside from uploading non-free album covers), so I'll leave the issue about the tour poster to someone who knows how to fix it. Also, I'm not too sure that I've actually fixed the problem with the point beginning "Another stipulation in their negotiation...". I've left that point un-striked for other people to comment on. Homeostasis07 (talk) 22:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)