Wikipedia:Peer review/Bob Willis/archive1

Bob Willis

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I'm eventually hoping to go for FA, and I want a peer review of this first draft to iron out initial problems before moving for GA. I am aware thus far that the Commentary section needs expansion, the context of his career needs expanding in areas where only his scores etc. are discussed, and it needs a copy edit for grammar and spelling.

Thanks, SGGH ^ping! 13:58, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Brianboulton comments: I'll do as much as I can; so far I've checked out the lead and the first couple of sections, and done some copyedits. Some points for attention:-

• Lead
  • Remember that your potential readership includes those who don't speak cricket-ese, and won't understand terms that sound natural to you. Thus:-
    • "...325 wickets at 25.20" needs to be expanded to "325 wickets at 25.20 runs per wicket"
    • "8/43" needs to become "8 wickets for 43 runs". These longer formulations can be discarded after the first couple of times, when you can reasonably assume your readers know what you mean by the shorter versions
  • Don't rely on the link to explain "Ashes series". Add "against Australia" the first time an Ashes series in mentioned.
  • "national notoriety" means famous in a bad or detrimental way. This whole sentence needs to be reconstructed, along the lines: "He nevertheless continued to find success, taking a career best eight wickets for 43 runs, one of the all-time best Test bowling performances, in the famous 1981 Ashes series against Australia."
  • Suggest begin second paragraph: "In addition to his Test matches, Willis played 64 One Day International matches (ODI) for his country,"
  • Add an explanation of List-A, e.g. "a prolific List-A (one-day) cricketer,..."
  • He captained England "in", not "through" 18 Test matches - the 18 games were not consecutive.
  • "He formed a noted commentary partnership with Botham, however contrasting styles found Willis as a second string commentator from 2006 onwards." As written the sentence is not grammatical (comma should be either semicolon or full stop), but more importantly, it doesn't make its point clearly. "Contrasting style" doesn't seem a reason for demotion. How about something like: "He formed a noted commentary partnership with Botham; however, Willis's relatively low-key style, in contrast to Botham's ebullience, meant that from 2006 onwards Willis tended to be used as a second string commentator."
  • Last sentence, I'd say "broadcaster" rather than repeating "commentator".
• Early life
  • "at age six" is too American. "...at the age of six."
  • Something wrong with the grammar here: "His father was an employee of the BBC, and Willis an elder brother named David, and a younger sister, with whom he played cricket in the garden." Missing word or words? Needs fixing.
  • "...an avid schoolboy footballer..." I don't think "footballer" is adequate, seeing there are so many football codes. Best specify: "an avid schoolboy soccer player."

This article is written in British English, would that mean it ought to stay as football? SGGH ^ping! 10:56, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

The term "soccer" is quite OK in British English. Brianboulton (talk) 22:51, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

• County debut
  • "In 1968, Willis joined Middlesex and Surrey Young Cricketers in Pakistan to further hone his skills." How did this come about? As written it sounds as though Willis simply attached himself to a cricket tour for his own purposes. I imagine, however, that he was invited. So I suggest: "In 1968, Willis accepted an invitation to join Middlesex and Surrey Young Cricketers on tour in Pakistan, and used this opportunity to further hone his skills."
  • As this article is about cricket, can I request consistent use of English dating, i.e. 26 August not August 26?
  • "He played several further Second XI matches through May and June,..." We seem to have jumped a season here. We've just learned that he played for Surrey Seconds on 26 August and again two days later. So the next sentence should begin: "In the 1969 season Willis played several Second XI matches through May and June,..."
  • 6 August, not August 6 (take other requests for Eng dates as read), and give the year: 6 August 1969.
  • "Scotland were touring England that season and had already beaten Warwickshire when Willis took three wickets for 13 runs from 13 overs in his first innings, and two for 37 in his second, to help Surrey to victory by an innings and 97 runs." This is telescoping too much information into a single sentence, and also gives the wrong impression that Scotland were the major touring side that summer. In fact Scotland rarely play first-class matches. My advice would be to run on from the previous sentence thus: "before his first-class debut on 6 August against a touring side from Scotland. The tourists had already beaten Warwickshire when they faced Surrey, for whom Willis took three wickets for 13 runs in Scotland's first innings, and two for 37 in their second, to help Surrey to an easy victory."
  • Specify 22 first-class wickets, and 15th in the national first-class bowling averages

Changed the first, the second says "15th in the national averages for that season's County Championship" which specifies that it is the County Championship (i.e. not all FC matches) SGGH ^ping! 10:56, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

• • "Surrey came third that year." Say what they came third in.

Referenced to previous sentence SGGH ^ping! 10:56, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

• • Second paragraph: needs to be date specific. Thus: "Willis had thus earned a second season at Surrey, and in 1970 played 14 Championship matches,..." etc
  • "280-5" → "280 for five wickets"; the rest of the innings score summaries in the paragraph can stand.

That's all I can do for the moment. I will try to get back later this evening, otherwise tomorrow. Brianboulton (talk) 21:49, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I have sorted all your helpful comments, apart from the two under which I have made comments. Thanks for your help, it is useful to have a detailed run through. Cheers, SGGH ^ping! 10:56, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Continuing

-

• International beginnings
  • A footnote needs to explain that until 1997 English international cricket sids toured under the colours of the Marylebone Cricket Club

I can't even find that information in the Marylebone Cricket Club article. Will chec, SGGH ^ping! 23:04, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

• • I suggest that all not out scores are written as, say, "142 not out" rather than "142*" which non-cricketers won't understand.

General practice in other cricket FAs I have seen is to use "not out" for the first few examples, or * wikilinked to not out, and then use * for all remaining instances. I think this is what this article does too. SGGH ^ping! 23:04, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

• • In the second paragraph I suggest you preface the second sentence: "In the two remaining Tests, Willis took three wickets at the Adelaide Oval..." etc
  • Last sentence needs amending: there were two Tests played in New Zealand in Feb-March 1971. Willis played in the second, which was drawn.

Sorted, he only played one of them, the second. SGGH ^ping! 23:04, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

• Surrey to Warwickshire
  • The term "five-wicket haul" needs explaining to non-cricket people
  • "He was not selected for the 1972 Ashes series in England, and instead travelled to South Africa as part of DH Robins' invitation XI. The Robins tour in question was January-February 1973 when the Ashes season was long over, so his participation in the tour was an entirely separate venture, not an "instead".

My meaning was he spent the same winter season in SA. Will fix. SGGH ^ping! 23:04, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

• • Robins has a Wikipedia article and can be linked.

Ah,Derrick Robins, I have been looking for him. SGGH ^ping! 23:04, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

• • This doesn't make sense: "The West Indies, the more powerful team of the period,..." It would be grammatical to say either "The West Indies, one of the more powerful teamS of the period", or "The West Indies, the most powerful team of the period". However, neither of these statements would be remotely true. In 1973 West Indies had not won a Test series since 1966-67. They had lost series to England (twice), Australia (twice) and India, and had drawn with New Zealand twice. They had won none of their previous 20 matches. In other words, they were considered one of the weakest of the international sides at the time. The 1973 tour to England, however, proved a turning point for them.
  • "He did, however, make his ODI debut..." There's no "however" here. Simply, "He made his ODI debut..."
  • Jargon needs rewording: "Willis went wicketless and at 5.5 an over..."
• West Indies, sub-continent and Australia
  • Problem again with "top Test side". You could call them "rapidly-improving"
  • "he took only one wicket,[41] followed by three in the second,[42] and 1/100 in the final match." Why the change in representing his bowling for the final match?
  • Wikilink bowling average unless this has been done earlier.

I will link it in the lead. SGGH ^ping! 23:04, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

• • "Pakistan touring in early August, and Willis featured in one Test – taking one wicket for 133 runs – and one ODI where he took one wicket caught and bowled as Pakistan took a seven wicket victory." A very untidy sentence, needs serious attention.
  • "He played 13 Championship games for Warwickshire that season," - specify the season
  • "He was, however, playing with a growing injury and requiring several painkilling injections." How many "-ings" in a singlr sentence? Needs rephrasing.

I've done what I can, but the prose needs a lot of serious attention and I don't have the time at the moment to keep doing it. I'm away for five days from Sunday and I've got a great deal to do before then. It really does need someone with cricket nous to run through the rest and put the prose to rights. Plenty of good stuff here, given time and attention. Brianboulton (talk) 00:18, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments, very helpful. SGGH ^ping! 23:04, 13 November 2009 (UTC)