Wikipedia:Peer review/Flight Pattern/archive1

Flight Pattern

I've listed this article for peer review because I am looking to bring this to GAN soon, and possibly FAC, and would like some feedback. Thanks, Z1720 (talk) 18:09, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

I notice a lot of "The..." sentences, which is sometimes unavoidable, but definitely "The piece..." "The piece..." "The piece..." should be rewritten. Regarding the prose as a whole, some parts feel a bit jargony. I linked pas de deux. "Pite expanded the ballet into" required a bit of thinking, and this is made a bit worse by the article body using "extend" instead of "expand" (consistency in the jargony bits at least would help). What does "avoided abstract and metaphorical movement to a positive effect" mean? It would be worth going through it and seeing if anything can be written to be a bit more accessible (unlikely to be a GAN problem, but might come up in FAC). I'd like to note this is a bit nitpicky, I know very little about ballet and yet was able to learn from the article. I hope that lack of knowledge helps explain my jargon notes, along with my not seeing what "reviewers noted the decision to cast McNally as a soloist, especially because she was an experienced performer" is meant to tell us. Surely it's normal for experienced performers to be soloists? I note the external video is under 3 minutes long, and the performance is 30 minutes, so perhaps the caption here could explain if it's an excerpt of cuts from different parts of the ballet, or any other notable aspects of this extract. Looks like the pas de deux? Hope this helps, CMD (talk) 01:18, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for these comments regarding a lack of knowledge: I think it's really beneficial that non-experts read this and note the jargon. Since dance is such a niche subject matter, most readers of the article are not going to know the definition of various ballet/dance terms, and most FAC reviewers are going to be non-experts. Keep pointing out the jargon and we'll see if we can use more common language. Z1720 (talk) 13:16, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

I created the article a few years ago and I'm happy to see Z1720 expanded the article. I do want to add a few comments. I rephrased a few "the piece" to "the ballet", also an acceptable way to refer to a ballet. I'd say be consistent with either extend or expand (check which term Pite used, but personally I'd use expand). I think the sentence "reviewers noted the decision to cast McNally as a soloist, especially because she was an experienced performer" is weird and doesn't mean a lot here - there are many experience performers in the Royal Ballet, but she's probably the most experienced in this cast. The external video is the pas de deux, but I don't know whether it's an except for the entire pas de deux (I have access to the full video so if you need want to I can check).

I took the liberty of rephrasing "performed by Sambé and McNally" to "originated by...". In Light of Passage it was alternated between two casts (cast sheet for the second cast). It's absolutely possible that someone else may do it in the future, and I'm just not a fan of listing everyone who had ever done lead role in a ballet article (too tedious and likely to be incomplete). However, the full list of the original cast on the Royal Opera House Collections website and I think it's useful to list them in the article.

Few things about the 2019 recording: if memory serves it was initially a cinema relay (broadcast live in cinema), then released on DVD along with the rest of the triple bill. In late 2020 it was made available for rent (not purchased) for a short amount of time, while ROH was periodically releasing videos online amid COVID. Last year the it was made available for rent again to raise fund for Ukrainian refugees. It is currently available on ROH's streaming platform.

Another source that may be useful to you is a chapter in the Oxford Handbook of Contemporary Ballet with a more academic analysis of the ballet (link via Wikipedia Library). Corachow (talk) 03:15, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you both for your comments! I am going to separate your comments into bullet points below so that I can get a check list. Feel free to add or modify the list below:

• I notice a lot of "The..." sentences, which is sometimes unavoidable, but definitely "The piece..." "The piece..." "The piece..." should be rewritten.
• Regarding the prose as a whole, some parts feel a bit jargony.
• "Pite expanded the ballet into" required a bit of thinking, and this is made a bit worse by the article body using "extend" instead of "expand" (consistency in the jargony bits at least would help).
• What does "avoided abstract and metaphorical movement to a positive effect" mean? It would be worth going through it and seeing if anything can be written to be a bit more accessible (unlikely to be a GAN problem, but might come up in FAC).
• I'd like to note this is a bit nitpicky, I know very little about ballet and yet was able to learn from the article. I hope that lack of knowledge helps explain my jargon notes, along with my not seeing what "reviewers noted the decision to cast McNally as a soloist, especially because she was an experienced performer" is meant to tell us. Surely it's normal for experienced performers to be soloists?
• I note the external video is under 3 minutes long, and the performance is 30 minutes, so perhaps the caption here could explain if it's an excerpt of cuts from different parts of the ballet, or any other notable aspects of this extract. Looks like the pas de deux?
  • This is one of the pas de deuxs from the ballet, so an explanation/caption should be given. Z1720 (talk) 13:16, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
• I'd say be consistent with either extend or expand (check which term Pite used, but personally I'd use expand).
• I think the sentence "reviewers noted the decision to cast McNally as a soloist, especially because she was an experienced performer" is weird and doesn't mean a lot here - there are many experience performers in the Royal Ballet, but she's probably the most experienced in this cast.
• The external video is the pas de deux, but I don't know whether it's an except for the entire pas de deux (I have access to the full video so if you need want to I can check).
  • From my understanding, the ensemble returns to the dance at least once, so I think there's multiple pas de deuxs? If you can check, that would be great (I'm still looking for a free version of the piece from my local library system, but I'm not sure if the Royal Ballet's repertoire has been added). Z1720 (talk) 13:16, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
    • There's only one pas de deux. The YouTube video contains the entirety of it. Corachow (talk) 15:48, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
• I took the liberty of rephrasing "performed by Sambé and McNally" to "originated by...". In Light of Passage it was alternated between two casts (cast sheet for the second cast). However, the full list of the original cast on the Royal Opera House Collections website and I think it's useful to list them in the article.

• • I'm going to take a look at the second cast sheet and see how it might be added in. Z1720 (talk) 13:16, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
    • My suggestion is to have an original cast section with a bullet point list of everyone. To save you time looking them up the other dancers with their own article are Matthew Ball (dancer) and James Hay (dancer). My mentioning of the second Light of Passage cast sheet is more to prove that someone else had done the lead roles, and not a suggestion to incorporate it in the article Corachow (talk) 15:30, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
• It's absolutely possible that someone else may do it in the future, and I'm just not a fan of listing everyone who had ever done lead role in a ballet article (too tedious and likely to be incomplete).
  • I agree: I think this piece is going to be added to the Royal Ballet's rotation of repertoire and I would not be surprised if there are several remounts. Listing them all would be a bad idea. Z1720 (talk) 13:16, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
• Few things about the 2019 recording: if memory serves it was initially a cinema relay (broadcast live in cinema), then released on DVD along with the rest of the triple bill. In late 2020 it was made available for rent (not purchased) for a short amount of time, while ROH was periodically releasing videos online amid COVID. Last year the it was made available for rent again to raise fund for Ukrainian refugees. It is currently available on ROH's streaming platform.
  • In the sources I found, I was not able to find information about video recordings/relays. The article had information about a previous recording but I felt the wording and the source was too promotional, so I think I replaced it (I'll go back into the article history and see if I can find the source). If you know of any sources that explain these recordings, feel free to post below and I will take a look. Z1720 (talk) 13:16, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
    • I can't find a review of the cinema relay. Best I got is is a review of the 2019 triple bill that mentioned there would be a cinema relay ([1]) and a press release for the cinema relay ([2]). Best source I got for the DVD is the ROH online shop ([3]). The 2022 release is mentioned here. Corachow (talk) 15:33, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

      The publisher (if that's the correct term) has more information on the DVD ([4]). Corachow (talk) 15:37, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

• Another source that may be useful to you is a chapter in the Oxford Handbook of Contemporary Ballet with a more academic analysis of the ballet (link via Wikipedia Library).

Thanks everyone for your help. If I did not comment above, it's because I haven't done it yet. Z1720 (talk) 13:16, 14 April 2023 (UTC)