- Adopting a hunter-gatherer lifestyle: could we somehow get the word pastoralist into the earlier description of the Mongol clans, so as to be clear on what actually changed here?
- Rephrased the sentences to better summarise the article.
- As his reputation grew, his relationship with Jamukha deteriorated into open warfare. He was decisively defeated: Suggest Temüjin was defeated: he could be either.
- I believe that's what I had originally. Restored.
- I would echo Gog that e.g. kurultai (council) or similar would be a fairly cheap and very useful addition.
- subduing Western Xia, who had gone into rebellion: if Western Xia is a place, who should be which; if it's a people, it should be the Western Xia.
- Earlier version restored.
- Per MOS:QUOTE, glosses like ("Golden Book") should be in single quotes.
- Sinologist Arthur Waley considered it to be of very little historiographical value, instead choosing to emphasise its merits as a work of literature. More recent historians...: if we're going to talk about more recent historians, we should give a rough sense of when Waley was writing.
- cynophobic: a very rare word: "as having a phobia of dogs"?
- Is it Jami' al-tawarikh or the Jami' al-tawarikh? We're inconsistent (I'd also translate that name on first use).
- Rashid al-Din should be shortened to Rashid on second mention; al-Din is not a surname
- Would similarly translate Al-Kamil fi al-Tarikh
- the Georgian Chronicles, the Nikon Chronicle, and works by Europeans: most people would consider Georgians and Russians to be European.
- Certainly not Georgia at this time frame, perhaps not Russians, but that's very tangential so I've deleted that.
- descended from the legendary warlord: does legendary mean "fictional" or "astonishingly successful"? If the former, I struggle to see how she can be descended from him ("whose family claimed descent from..."?): if the latter, this reads as WP:PUFFERY. Either way, it's ambiguous as presently worded.
- It is possible that Hö'elün may have refused to join in levirate marriage with one, or that the author of the Secret History dramatised the situation.: I don't totally understand this: in particular, I'm not clear how Hö'elün's rejection of one of these brothers would have encouraged them to stick by her.
- It goes the other way; clarified, but the whole situation is very unclear.
- Taking up a traditional hunter-gatherer lifestyle: I don't think this was traditional (or at least not normal) for the Mongols in this period, was it?
- These incidents are indicative of the emphasis the author of the Secret History put on personal charisma: we haven't actually said that these incidents are traced (entirely?) to the Secret History
- Accompanied by Belgutei, Temüjin returned to Dei Sechen to marry Börte when he reached the age of majority at fifteen: perhaps a little unclear as to exactly who reached the age of majority.
- Who else could it be? If Belgutei, I'll remove him.
- Delighted to see the son-in-law he feared had been lost, the Onggirat chieftain: I would suggest restating who this is, and how come T. was about to become his son-in-law.
- Is this just an ELEGVAR problem? If so, rephrased.
- Toghrul ruled hundreds of square miles: is that really all that much? A hundred square miles is a ten-by-ten square, which doesn't exactly strike me as a mighty kingdom in itself. Can we be more specific?
- Specific and Mongol Empire don't really go together, but you're right: looking at a map, it is clear that the Kereit controlled somewhere in the region of 100,000 square miles. I don't know if "looking at a map" counts as a RS, though. Thoughts?
- I vaguely remember that there's been an RFC on this, but I'd suggest that it falls under the same heading as making a routine calculation (which doesn't count as OR), especially when we're deliberately sticking well within the error bars. UndercoverClassicist T·C 18:53, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Do we know when or how Chiledu died?
- serving as Jamukha's nökor, in return for the assistance with the Merkits: we've previously glossed nökor only as "personal companion"; it sounds here as if it means something more like "servant"?
- It's not–it's akin to the Roman patron-client relationship. Edited.
- Traditionally seen as an expression of Song arrogance: this isn't clear: where have the Song come from? "Formerly" might be better than "traditionally" (was it really a tradition to think this?)
- Temüjin and Toghrul campaigned against the Merkits, the Naimans, and the Tatars; sometimes separately and sometimes together: was that Temüjin and Toghrul together, or the Merkits, Naimans and Tatars?
- The Merkits were decimated later that year: MOS:IDIOM: were exactly 10% of them killed?
- That's the historical usage; common usage is "to kill a large number of something" (Cambridge).
- was betrayed to Temüjin by companions who were executed for their lack of loyalty: by Temüjin?
- In the quotation box of the Baljuna Covenant, 'Great Work' should be in single quotes, as it's within a double-quoted passage. Despite aesthetics, left-align beats right-align for readability and accessibility.
Currently done up to "Early reign". More to come.
- This particular reformation proved extremely effective—even after the division of the Mongol Empire fragmentation never happened along tribal lines: Should be reform, I think. I would also put a comma after "Empire".
- The other nökod were given commands of one of the ninety-five minkad: not quite correctly phrased: presumably each one had their own minqan, so something like "were each given command of one...".
- in addition to a carpenter, a shepherd, and even the two herdsmen who had warned Temüjin of Toghrul's plans in 1203: I'd cut even as editorialising (it gives the sense that we should be surprised by this).
- We should be—RS devote great attention to it: e.g. Ratchnevsky talks about how the grant to the herdsmen is a flaw in Vladimirtsov's Soviet analysis.
- The keshig was not only the khan's bodyguard, but his household staff, a military academy, and a pivot of governmental administration: "a pivot of governmental administration" isn't totally clear to me (how does administration pivot, exactly?) -- would rephrase per MOS:IDIOM. Are we sure that "military academy" isn't slightly overselling things -- it's one thing to say that people learned how to do military things, but the term implies a high level of formality, organisation, curriculum etc that don't sound very likely to me.
- An administration pivots between peacetime governing, military operations, and judicial/commercial/religious duties. Our article defines Military academy as "an educational institution which prepares candidates for service in the officer corps"—which is precisely what the keshig was. When the keshig became less prominent in the later Chagatai Khanate, its army became increasingly ineffective, unable to produce generals of sufficient quality to defend the realm. Formal curriculum? Perhaps not. Formality and organisation? Without a doubt.
- "Pivot" is still a metaphor in this context, though: MOS:IDIOM advises us to use the most literal language possible. I'm also unclear as to how an organisation can be a "pivot" under the definition you've suggested. Is there a more concrete way to phrase this? Likewise, for "military academy", I'd go with "a place where future generals learned military skills" or similar -- the dictionary definition may not be totally unsuitable, but the connotations and implications are unsound and will lead many readers in the wrong direction. UndercoverClassicist T·C 18:36, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Changed "pivot" to "centre"; I disagree about "military academy", which is explicitly used in the literature.
- divided into an 8,000-strong day guard and two minqad of night guards and quiver bearers: do these titles reflect actual responsibilities, or are they more ceremonial/symbolic?
- Actual duties.
- So those poor 2,000 men just carry around a quiver? I hope they at least had a corresponding corps of bow-bearers? I'm being slightly facetious, but I wonder whether there's something like the Macedonian hypaspists ("shield-bearers") going on here -- that is, they did carry quivers, but that wasn't all they did. UndercoverClassicist T·C 18:33, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- whom they would serve during peacetime and wartime: I would get rid of this: isn't that just a flowery way of saying "would serve"?
- When Genghis's youngest brother Temüge attempted to intervene: as he only had one youngest brother, there should be commas around the name.
- Genghis dispatched Jochi northwards in 1207 to subjugate the Hoi-yin Irgen [ja], a collection of tribes on the edge of the Siberian taiga, and, having secured a marriage alliance with the Oirats and defeated the Yenisei Kyrgyz, took control of the region's trade in grain and furs, as well as its gold mines.: a very long sentence: I'd break it after taiga.
- The Mongols had started raiding the border settlements of the Tangut-led Western Xia kingdom in 1205, ostensibly in retaliation for allowing Senggum, Toghrul's son, refuge; more prosaic explanations include rejuvenating the depleted Mongol economy with an influx of fresh goods and livestock, or simply subjugating a semi-hostile state to protect the nascent Mongol nation similarly, consider making a break after refuge.
- Although Zhongxing was now mostly undefended, as the Mongols lacked any siege equipment better than crude battering rams they were unable to progress the siege: clearer as undefended, the Mongols lacked ... and were unable to...
- Genghis's innovative attempt to redirect the Yellow River: I'd cut innovative as WP:PUFFERY.
- the outer ring of Jin defences: would it be anachronistic to name the Great Wall here?
- I think so, because it's not the structure most think of; this one was far, far i
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