Wikipedia:Peer review/History of the New York Yankees/archive1

History of the New York Yankees

I've listed this article for peer review because I want to prepare it for a potential run at FAC. After rebuilding this article from the ground up and seeing it become a GA last year, I'm interested in making a push for FA later this year. I have already focused on cutting down what was an admittedly huge article, trimming almost 1,000 words from the version that passed GAN. One of the areas I'm most interested in seeing feedback is how to further control the length of the page. Also, I'm always looking for prose help, particularly for statements that are confusing to non-baseball fans. I'll be around to address any comments that appear here.

Thanks, Giants2008 (Talk) 03:07, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Note that due to travel it may take me some time to complete this, but here's something to start you off:

Lede

• " The team infrequently contended for the AL championship before the acquisition of outfielder Babe Ruth after the 1919 season. Shortly afterwards," I would say "rarely" for "infrequently" and "With Ruth in the lineup," rather than "shortly afterwards". I would link lineup on first use and you need not say "batting". I think it's understood.
• If you are going to mention McCarthy, you should probably have mentioned Huggins, possibly in connection with the '27 Yankees.
• "while then-owners CBS posted financial losses." maybe "and the team became a money-loser for CBS," possibly with "playing in an aging stadium, because i think the building of Yankee Stadium, which took them from a tolerated tenant of the Giants to the leading team in baseball playing in the most up to date stadium. The renovation might also be worth a mention, in conjunction with the Yankees of the late 1970s.

• I still have to look up what I put on the renovation, and might add a sentence or two in the body on the topic. When that's done, I'll look at summarizing it in the lead. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:26, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

• Done. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:38, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

• "Despite internal disputes in the late 1970s" maybe "Despite clubhouse disputes"? (I don't think you need a date)
• "and the team's performance declined by the late-1980s. The club's leadership eventually began to rebuild around young players from the team's minor league system," maybe "and the team sank into mediocrity for over a decade after 1981. In the early 1990s, the team began to improve again as the club was rebuilt around young players from the minor league system"

• Although I did this one, I can't say I'm in love with it. The Yankees actually had the most regular season wins of any team in the 1980s. They just had a lot of second- and third-place finishes in the mid-80s. It wasn't until the late 1980s that they really collapsed. I might take another look at this later. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:26, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

• I modified it further to the point where I'm happy. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:38, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Background etc

• Although this is a baseball article and properly uses its terminology, idioms like "sides" may be a bit too far.
• "In their first season," I would suggest, "In 1901, their first season" ...
• " in an attempt to heighten the AL's competition with the NL." a bit vague. Possibly "in an attempt to compete directly with the NL".
• " he gave the Giants' ownership his interest in the Orioles in the process.[5] Several of the team's players" maybe "he transferred his interest in the Baltimore team to the Giants as part of the deal. Several Orioles, some of whom also had an ownership interest in their team, ..."

• I don't remember if the sources I used said the Orioles players had an ownership interest. I'll check them and will add that in if I can confirm it. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:26, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

• The sources I have didn't say this. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:38, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

• "The Orioles had the worst record in the AL and the weakest attendance figures" Maybe, "The Orioles finished last in the league both in the standings and in attendance."
• "lineup of MLB" I would say "lineup of MLB teams".

Pretty good so far.--Wehwalt (talk) 10:12, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Resuming with 1903

• " it has been nicknamed Hilltop Park" maybe "it was nicknamed Hilltop Park" to make it clear it was known that way at the time.
• "a set nickname" possibly "an official nickname". You might want to make clear whether such things were usual at the time (if I recall, they were).

• I think the sources said something to that effect, but if they didn't that's something that should be in a more general source. I'll find something to support that if what is used now doesn't cover it. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:26, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

• Done (I think). Giants2008 (Talk) 01:38, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

• "which referred to the Gordon Highlanders military unit in Britain and Joe Gordon, the team's president." maybe "a play on the last name of the team's president, Joe Gordon, and the British military unit, the Gordon Highlanders.
• "For their roster, New York made numerous additions, " they would have had to, as they started from nil. Possibly "The team acquired players such as ..."
• " The team's first manager in New York City was Clark Griffith, who was hired from the Chicago White Sox and played for the club." possibly "The player-manager was Clark Griffith, obtained from the Chicago White Sox". I think it's not necessary to repeat the "first"
• When did the 24 day road trip occur? The "quickly" isn't that much help here.
• "an AL record" I would say "still an AL record". I don't think that is likely to change soon.
• "lead that it held until the end of the game" a half inning. I would simply say "victory." after the score. I might also note New York won the second game.
• "as the club dealt with" better, "due to"
• "opposition from Johnson" possibly remind the reader by preceding "Johnson" with "Ban" or "AL president"
• "Chase managed in" strike "in"
• "In their early years, New York dealt with multiple issues that hindered their play on the field." I think this could be deleted if you'd change "the club" to "Highlander ownership"

1913

• "New York started played" grammar
• "After two seasons in which New York finished no higher than sixth place" you should probably make it clearer that you are talking about 1913 and 1914. Also, I would use "Yankees" here and delete the descriptors before Farrell and Devery. The reader has been recently introduced to them.
• What effect did Federal League competition for players and fans have on the Yankees?

• From what I've been able to gather, the competition for fans affected the Robins (Dodgers) more directly than the Yankees, because the New York City Federal League franchise was based in Brooklyn. I'll check to see if any significant Yankees players were raided by the FL. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:53, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

• Added a little on the subject. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:38, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

• "which remains their "home" uniforms" I would say "still their home uniform design". The Yankee uniform today is not the same as then, though the layout is similar. The quotes seem unneeded, the reader knows what a home game is.
• "The team had gone through many uniforms in its seasons in New York, and in 1913 had introduced the present-day gray uniforms worn during "road" games." Maybe "The team had worn a number of different uniform designs during the Highlander years; in 1913, the gray uniforms for road games with "NEW YORK" across the chest were introduced; the Yankees still wear similar outfits". Actually, I would start with the info about the various Highlander uniforms, then mention the home and road uniforms as more logical. No opinion on whether home goes first, or road, I can see both sides.
• "The new ownership group" 2 people? "The new owners"
• You might want to make clear the Mays deal was midseason. Also, "Mays pitched to a 9–3 record" maybe "Mays went 9-3"
• "That season" I would say "The 1919 season" and change "until 1919" to "until then"
• "rising to about 619,000 as people who worked during the rest of the week were able to attend games" Hmm. Baseball saw considerable increases in the 1919 season, not just the Yankees, so I don't know if it can be explained by blue laws that affected, for all intents and purposes, at most 15 games a season (since the Yankees would get a couple of the Sunday games the Athletics could not play at home because of Philadelphia blue laws). From the research I did on the Landis article, it was in part due to the return of the fans from the trenches.
• According to the Ruth article, Horace Stoneham basically kicked the Yankees out of the Polo Grounds in 1922. The description seems a bit different here. You might want to make clear at some point that the Giants owned the Polo Grounds and the Yankees were their tenants.

• That's because Stoneham didn't just decide to kick the Yankees out then. He had tried to do so two years earlier, possibly at the behest of Ban Johnson over the Carl Mays trade dispute. Stoneham backed down in the face of possible lawsuits, but multiple sources of mine confirm that what you cite was not the first time he wanted the Yanks out. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:55, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

• "win another championship until 2004" another World Series championship, or world championship as they won several league and division titles.
• You might want to spice up the description of the Bambino curse, since it was certainly a significant source of the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry.

• Added a quote to provide said spice. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:32, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

• I don't see any description of the 1920 season, certainly highly significant for the Yankees. I also don't think you should lead off your coverage of Ruth's effect with his batting statistics. Four WS titles in seven seasons and focusing the baseball world on NYC is how I would recommend doing it.

• Added some more on 1920, in particular the Carl Mays/Ray Chapman incident, and modified the Ruth material. I'm not getting as much time to work on this as I'd hoped, but am still plugging away here and there. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:32, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

• The Yankee involvement in the crisis following the Black Sox revelations and the hiring of Landis should be mentioned. See the Landis article for guidance.
• For that matter, looking ahead to the next section, I don't see any mention of Landis suspending Ruth and Meusel, which certainly I would expect in any account of the Yankees' 1922 season. In fact, he is unmentioned in the article

More soon.--Wehwalt (talk) 11:07, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for what you've provided so far. I've gotten through the first batch and have started on the second, making the recommended changes in almost all cases. There are some inline comments above with questions to you or just reminders to myself to investigate issues further. Hopefully this is all right with you. Giants2008 (Talk) 01:26, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

OK, but I am doing this offline and have limited time so I may not answer quickly.

Resuming with the 20s

• The Ruth/Meusel barnstorming incident and its consequences should get full play.
• "which had been called "the House That Ruth Built" by sportswriter Fred Lieb because of the player's impact on attendance." maybe "which sportswriter Fred Lieb dubbed "the House That Ruth Built" as the Yankees would not have needed such a large stadium had it not been for Ruth's boost to attendance."
• Space permitting, it might be worth noting that Stengel's homers were both inside-the-park (this was when baseball fields were larger than some counties, of course)

• That is actually incorrect. Only the home run that won Game 1 was of the inside-the-park variety. The homer he hit in Game 3 was over an outfield wall (conventional). Giants2008 (Talk) 03:05, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

• It might be worth mentioning that the Yankees did not have a losing season after 1925 until 1965, and I think that's a MLB record.
• "proficiency" I think this is a place for bluntness. "power hitting"?
• "ownership" Ruppert
• You might want to begin the 1929 section by mentioning the resurgence of the Athletics, which muted any calls to break up the Yankees.
• "The players fielded by McCarthy included catcher Bill Dickey, who had first competed for the Yankees in 1928" maybe "McCarthy's team was a transition from Murderers' Row; new contributors included Bill Dickey, who had first played for the Yankees in 1928". I just don't like that "competed"
• "multiple Cubs players later denied the pointing and" I'd cut this. It's sufficient to say accounts vary greatly.
• "roster's total salary" payroll. I think the reader will understand we are not talking about ticket takers.
• "Players with experience from the minor league teams began joining the Yankees" "Players developed in the farm system entered the Yankee lineup beginning"
• "intensity on the field and off-field attire;" maybe "on-field hustle and off-field attire;"
• "1936–41: Four consecutive World Series titles" I don't like this because there are six years involved. Maybe change the text to "Renewed domination"
• "from San Francisco" maybe cut this and add "in his native city" to avoid the repeat of SF. I'd also add "in 1936" after "Yankees"
• "his shares of team stock" "his ownership interest" or similar
• "and ended up two games behind the Detroit Tigers for first place" maybe "and finished second, two games behind the Detroit Tigers."
• "the Yankees trailed 4–3 in the ninth inning and were one out from losing before a four-run rally" wasn't this when strike three got away from the catcher? If so, a little more detail might be helpful.

More soon. No opinion on length or a possible split yet.--Wehwalt (talk) 10:53, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Resuming

• "went off to serve the U.S. military" I would add "in" after serve. And maybe change to "immediately joined the Armed Forces" instead. And I would say "some" not "many" as you refer to most Yankees being there until 1943.
• "Yankees' run of victories in eight Series in a row that they appeared in" a little rough, but I'm having trouble coming up with a better version.
• "they did the following season" maybe "they would the following season"
• I would move "1946" up one sentence.
• " to games at Yankee Stadium" I would cut and instead add "home" before "MLB"
• "The Yankees employed two other managers during the year" maybe "The Yankees used two interim managers during the season" and in a footnote name them.
• " at certain positions" delete. That's understood. You can't platoon your whole lineup.
• "The Yankees had an opportunity" I would reverse this sentence, and so mention them winning the pennant before going to the WS opportunity.
• "more than three consecutive championships." I suggest "more than three in a row." as teams have won more than three (or five) championships in a row, but they weren't WS titles (the Atlanta Braves winning the NL East all those years)
• "more than in any of the previous regular seasons with Stengel as manager," maybe "the most yet for a Stengel-managed team".
• It might be worth mentioning that the Dodgers victory was their first ever in a WS, not that it was the first against the Yankees (which would be implied anyway).
• " for leading the AL in all three statistics" cut. Most will know, others can follow the link.
• " not allowing a single Dodgers batter to reach base" cut.
• It might be mentioned that Stengel was let go, as I recall because they said he was too old.
• "lead the club starting in 1961" "replace him" (move date to near start of next paragraph.
• "strong press attention as the year progressed. Ultimately, an infection forced Mantle to leave the lineup and bow out of the race in mid-September with 54 home runs. Maris continued the race, though," I'd say "much", not "strong". Also recommend deleting the second use of "the race"
• "as Ruth's record-setting season was 154 games" maybe "as the Yankees played a 154-game schedule in 1927"
• "came back from their third-place standing " maybe "rallied from third place"
• "80 percent of the Yankees from Topping and Webb" suggest deleting "from Topping and Webb" as those names are supplied next sentence.
• "integrating their roster.[156] While all American League clubs dragged their feet in integrating their rosters, the rapid decline of the Yankees' white stars left them on the same footing as the rest of the league.[157] In addition, 1965's introduction of the MLB draft, which allowed the clubs with the worst records to have the first selections, meant that the Yankees could not freely choose which young American amateur players to sign" maybe I'd say "the 1965" to avoid using a possessive on a year" and say "meant that the Yankees could not outbid other teams for young talent". I think you can lose the detail about American". Also "their roster" should be "its roster" Was Charlie Finley's purchase of the A's also a factor?
• Work on the stadium finished in 1976, and the Yankees were required to play for two seasons at the Mets' home field, Shea Stadium" you don't say which seasons these are, and the reader could easily guess wrong. I'd simply say which ones.
• "that clinched the pennant" delete
• The Yankees did not win a game in the 1976 World Series, as they were swept by the Cincinnati Reds." This can be shortened. You are saying the same thing twice.
• More soon, but look for the sort of thing I'm recommending cutting.--Wehwalt (talk) 10:09, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
• Here's the rest:

Resuming

• "in response to" perhaps just "amid"
• "and a 1.74 ERA," maybe "with" for "and"
• "Following the team's loss to the Dodgers in the 1981 World Series, the Yankees had their longest absence from the World Series since their initial appearance in 1921. They did not return to the Series until 1996, a 15-year drought" that can be boiled down to one sentence
• "turned off" is this formal enough?
• " while Pettitte was second in AL Cy Young Award voting with 21 wins" maybe move "with 21 wins" to after "Pettitte" to avoid possible ambiguity.
• "as of 2014" but you used 2015 earlier. I would make all the same year.
• " before losing four consecutive games. New York became the first team in MLB history to lose a best-of-seven series after winning the first three games" surely that most unfortunate fact can be boiled down into the previous sentence.
• It perhaps might be useful to mention why the new Yankee Stadium was built.
• "Jeter's right ankle was broken " Jeter broke his right ankle.

Whle the article is long, I think these history articles tend to be. All the prose fixes in the world won't save more than a few percent, and I don't think it's a good idea to split it. I'll go over the hidden comments as opportunity presents. Sorry to be so slow.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:09, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

After work tied my hands for a while, I've finally finished addressing your comments. Thanks for this tremendous reviewing effort! Giants2008 (Talk) 22:23, 10 February 2016 (UTC)