Wikipedia:Peer review/Iyer/archive1

Iyer

• A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for September 2008.

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because…I would like to fix drawbacks or irregularities (if any) that might arise. A review is also a mandatory step before an featured article nomination.

Thanks, Ravichandar_{My coffee shop} 05:12, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

• Are all Tamil Brahmins Iyer? There are other Brahmins from Tamil Nadu, right e.g Iyegnar. So general statements about Tamil Brahmins should not be included. "spoke of Tamil Brahmins as "Mahajanam" and regarded them.." "Tamil Brahmins form an estimated 3% of the state's total population", Also in section "Migration: Sri Lanka", the ref talks about Tamil Brahmins, not Iyers in specific. This generalization is uncalled for. The issue is present in almost every section of the article.
  • Yes, I agree. I am of the opinion that it is perfectly relevant to include references to Tamil Brahmins of ancient times (till the 10th century AD when Ramanuja formulated the philosophy of Vishishtadvaita) in this article as the Iyengar community is largely derived from the existing Smartha Brahmin community. As for the medieval and modern periods, I find it difficult to disambiguate as apart from minor differences in rituals, festivals, language and the existence of different subsects, the two communities are almost indistinguishable. I could very well create a new article called Tamil Brahmins and shift the overlapping content to that article. But then, Wikipedia does not classify caste-based communities on basis of language and there are no articles as Gujarati Brahmins or Bihari Brahmins and Marathi Brahmins. Moreover, such sort of naming too would bring about a great deal of ambiguity (I mean, what can be done about those Iyers and Iyengars whose mother tongue is Telugu). We should also consider the fact the article Iyer has been classed as a GA-article. If we are to sort out and move large chunks of material to an article named Tamil Brahmins, then it would not only affect continuity, but also create broken references and bring down the quality of article. It would unnecessarily delay things and consume our time and energy beyond what we could possibly offer. There is one course of action that we could adopt: I'd rather replace every occurence of the word "Tamil Brahmins" with "Iyers". We could move the same text to Iyengar article and replace "Iyer" with "Iyengar". If you have any other suggestions about this, you are welcome to make. This issue has been perplexing me for quite sometime.

Replacing "Tamil Brahmins" with Iyer is adding to the generalization and definitely not the solution, which should be avoided. Placing the info in a different article, and forming an summary in Iyer is one of the solutions. Just because is a GA, does not mean it can not be re-written. If GA Ganesha would not have been rewritten, it would not have become a FA. The "Tamil Brahmin" issue may crop up in the FAC too, if the article is nominated in current state.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 12:20, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

• • As for population statistics, I am afraid to say that there are no reliable statistics. Estimates suggest that the population of Tamil Brahmins is 2.4 million or 3% of Tamil population, but individual populations statistics or estimates of Iyers and Iyengars are unavailable-Ravichandar_{My coffee shop} 05:15, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

• The article is too long, think of splitting it and use summary style.
• Eliminate/Merge 1-2 line paras as well as sections as in "Subsects"
• What is a left-hand/right-hand caste?
  • The left and right-hand factions are two caste-based divisions found in Tamil society till about the 19th century AD. The animosities which existed between the two factions were well known. During the 18th century AD, British East India Company chronicles speak of riots between Komatis and Chettis who belong to opposite factions. There are even accounts of villages being burnt as a result of these riots. During the British period, Brahmins were deputed to mediate between the Komatis and Chettis as they did not belong to either faction at that time. However, there is evidence to suggest that way back in the 12th century AD, Brahmins were considered to be a left-handed faction. I'll add more references with regard to this.-Ravichandar_{My coffee shop} 05:15, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Add some context to jargon like "left-hand/right-hand caste". A short 1 line explanation will just do the job.--Redtigerxyz (talk) 12:20, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

• • • I've created a new article for Left-hand castes-Ravichandar_{My coffee shop} 05:14, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
• There have been migrations to other countries. There are large Tamil populations in singapore, Malaysia, Sri Lanka. Include in distribution, include numbers. "large numbers" is not concrete.
• "large number" is used many times. If possible, add figures e,g. about 1000
  • I've changed to "significant" for the time being. Let me look for figures-Ravichandar_{My coffee shop} 05:30, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
• "f better fortune.[111][112][113][114]" 111-114 are "

1. ^ Migration and Urbanization among Tamil Brahmans, Pg 18
2. ^ Migration and Urbanization among Tamil Brahmans, Pg 19
3. ^ Migration and Urbanization among Tamil Brahmans, Pg 20
4. ^ Migration and Urbanization among Tamil Brahmans, Pg 21" Instead just 1 ref "Migration and Urbanization among Tamil Brahmans, pp.18-21" is enough. There are other similar instances.

--Redtigerxyz (talk) 12:28, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

• • While writing this article, I chose to add footnotes to individual pages than a set of pages as the same reference could be reused. This would make it convenient while future enhancements are made. For example, if I add content to the article based on claims made in "Pg 18"of the book, then it would convenient to use existing footnotes for individual pages, than adding a reference for "Pg 18-21" or creating new references for "Pg 18" -Ravichandar_{My coffee shop} 05:15, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Comments from Kensplanet

• Before nominating the article for a FAC, you need to run it through a thorough MOS-edit.
• You must not have so many REFs in the lead. All Refs should be moved to the main prose. Only extremely contentious claims should have REFs in the Lead.
• The 'Lifestyle and culture section has too. many Images. Please reduce.
• References should be properly formattted.
  

G. S. Ghurye, Pg 393 -->>>> G. S. Ghurye, p. 393 Kensplanet (talk) 15:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)