Wikipedia:Peer review/List of numbered roads in Kawartha Lakes, Ontario/archive2

List of numbered roads in Kawartha Lakes, Ontario[edit]

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I've listed this article for peer review because I'm seeking to promote it to featured list status. It has already received a peer review to which everything was dealt with, so I need second opinions. Be picky please :)

Thanks, ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 06:42, 28 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Jafeluv

Lead:

"910.4 kilometres (565.7 mi) of provincially and municipally signed and maintained highway routes within the city" – Does this include the numbered city roads, or just the highways?
Is the shortest road really such a notable feature that it warrants mention in the lead?
The lead is awfully short, and doesn't mention the distinction between "King's Highways", "secondary highways" and "city roads", for example. Defining the terms would give the reader a better overview and encourage them to read further.

In regards to the first comment, the "King's" highways are the provincially signed, the numbered roads are the municipally signed. Should I clarify that in the lead? I think I put the shortest road comment there only for a DYK nomination, because the instructions there gave the impression that the hook had to be in the lead. I've also got the longest, however. Should I remove both, or just the shortest? Good idea on the last point, I'll see what I can do there shortly. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 05:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Types of roads/King's Highways:

"Like the rest of Ontario, the King's Highways in Kawartha Lakes are designated with an shield shaped sign topped with a crown, with the highway number in the centre and the word ONTARIO below, and called King's Highways, a term adopted in 1930." – Might be better to chop up the long sentence.
I don't think the word "crown" needs to be wikilinked, it can probably be assumed that the reader knows what it is.
"Though generally one lane in either direction, several short sections with two lanes in one direction as a passing lane are scattered along the highways." – The first part is missing a verb, and I think "scattered along the highways" is redundant since it's already mentioned that there are "several short sections". Also, consider using "although" instead of the more informal "though".
"The other 5" – I think 5 should be spelt out. There's probably a section about that in the MOS somewhere...
"Highway 46, now Kawartha Lakes Road 46" – No need to wikilink both, since both point to the same article.

Fixed everything. I believe Wikipedia:MOSNUM#Numbers would be the section. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 05:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Types of roads/Secondary highways:

"These were downloaded to Victoria county" – Capitalize "County".

Fixed - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 05:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Types of roads/City roads:

Is there a reason why "numbered city roads" links to country road, instead of having "numbered city roads"?

Fixed - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 05:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This section needs citations. For example, what is the source for the given total length of the roads?

Will fix the first one. The source for the figure is taking a map that shows the roads, figuring out the exact length using google maps, referencing the map, and then adding those up. I'm not sure how to present that, and its one of the things I've been trying to clear up (every editor asks that one). - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 05:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. I think it should at least be indicated somehow where the figure comes from. While routine calculations aren't considered original research as long as everyone agrees on the result, I can see people at FLC asking questions if it's not clarified where the information is from. Jafeluv (talk) 10:07, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

King's Highways:

"from the south to the north", "from the west to the east" – I'm not a native speaker, but somehow "from south to north" sounds better to my ear. Maybe this depends on the variant of English used? You seem to use "from east to west" in the City roads table (road number 8).
All the list sections have a lot of redlinks, while some entries are not linked. Is there a logic to this? I usually recommend removing redlinks as much as possible before FAC/FLC, unless they're there for a good reason.
Nice work with the sorting functionality of the tables.

Fixed the first couple things. The redlinks are there solely to promote the creation of those articles, but I wouldn't strongly object to their removal. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 05:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

City roads:

It's not necessary to wikilink "Kawartha Lakes" every time.
"Bexley-Laxton Township Line" → "Bexley–Laxton Township Line" – I think this calls for a dash rather than a hyphen, per WP:ENDASH.
"Formerly Highway 505, prior to 1997." (several instances) – "Formerly" is redundant here.

Fixed the first and last (Added a bit on the last too, as only part of the route was Highway 505. Isn't ndash for instances where you'd use "to" when speaking? From 1967 to 1999 (1967–1999)? Its Bexley and Laxton Township Line essentially. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 05:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think "Bexley-Laxton Township" would indicate that there was one township, called "Bexley-Laxton". Using the dash makes it clear that there are two townships. Dashes indicates disjunction, while hyphens indicate conjunction. However, it's a very minor issue, and by no means uncontroversial (see the MOS talk pages on how heated the debate can get about such a trivial topic). Jafeluv (talk) 07:52, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References:

The sources are almost exclusively maps, which is not a great indication of notability. However, #4 seems like a good source.
Reference #1 gives a "page doesn't exist" error.
Reference #6 gives a "secure connection failed" error.

Reference one has been taken down for some reason since I started the page, but is probably available on the internet archive. Reference 6 works fine for me, but I'll see what I can do. The maps are the main research tool in terms of the facts and the numbers. I don't believe notability is an issue with county road systems, seeing as many counties in the us have featured list articles. Unfortunately, we just do not have a website that lists all the information in Canada, so I have to break out a measuring tape and string. Any thoughts on what I could do on this one? - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 05:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Images:

The road number images are a nice touch. They help describe the road signs to the reader and they also make the tables look good.
File:Trans-Canada Highway shield.svg needs a non-free use rationale for this article.

Would I add that to the image or is it something I add to the image link in the article? I think you pretty much gave the same rationale I would in the point above! - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 05:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You need to add it to the image description page. There is already one for the Trans-Canada Highway article, see if you can use the same rationale. If not, you can add your own – see guideline. Also make sure that the use of the image in the article conforms to all of the non-free content criteria, particularly #8. People at FAC/FLC are pretty strict about non-free images having the correct fair use rationales (and rightly so, since it's a legal issue). Jafeluv (talk) 07:41, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Would it be a lot of work to add road numbers to the map? I think it would make it a lot clearer which road is where.

Not a lot of work, but it'll take some time. I know there's a way to use coding to put text over the image, so maybe I could do that instead... - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 05:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That would work too, although wouldn't doing it that way mean that when the reader clicks on the image to see the larger version, the numbers would disappear? Jafeluv (talk) 10:10, 9 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Alt texts look good.

General:

The article should probably be in Category:Kawartha Lakes, Ontario.
I'm not sure what the numbered road sign example in the Types of roads section adds when all the road signs are shown in the tables anyway. It might work better if that one was removed and the causeway image moved higher (and possibly made bigger).

The main purpose was to show a much larger and more detailed sign. I suppose you feel it isn't necessary when one can click on any of them t see a large image? - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 05:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I don't think it's necessary since the article already contains about 50 or so such images, and the reader can see a bigger version of any of them with one click. The fact that the signs are referred to as "shields" could be added somewhere in the text. Jafeluv (talk) 08:02, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have a source for that (Though it would never be contested by someone in the area), and I felt its less likely to be picked on as an image caption. I'll see what I can do when I get off work later - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 12:22, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I hope this helps. Jafeluv (talk) 20:43, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think I responded to everything... and made the likewise changes in the article. Still have a couple things to do that you suggested however, and I need responses on a couple others. Thank you for the review! :) Cheers, ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 05:40, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Alrighty. I think with the exception of modifying the map (which takes me some time as I have to make it on gIMP and trace it into Flash in order to make it an svg), everything is done. Care to give it a last once for any other problems? I think it's ready for its second shot at FLC. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 05:12, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

After making an attempt, I don't believe I can label the roads. First off, the numbers would be blurs at the resolution of the image on articles. Second off, since many of the roads twist and wind, I'd have to label each road several times along its length. The whole image would come out very messy. My end goal is to make articles for each road and have a map for that road. Any thoughts? - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ ^τ _¢ 20:24, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]