Wikipedia:Peer review/Loggerhead sea turtle/archive1

Loggerhead sea turtle[edit]

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This peer review discussion has been closed.
This article has been listed for peer review because I along with other students involved in WikiProject AP Biology 2009 have adopted it and are working to improve it. Any guidance would be much appreciated.

Thanks, Vancemiller (talk · contribs · count · email) 01:36, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from RJHall: I have a few comments, which I hope you will view as constructive.

Basically I would like to see more content in this article. At present many sections seem a little on the sparse side.
In terms of organization, I think this article has a few too many short sections. The sections either need to be expanded or merged. Please see Wikipedia:Layout#Headings and sections.
There are also some single sentence paragraphs, which are generally frowned upon. Please expand those or combine with related material.
The lead section is on the brief side and doesn't fully summarize the article. Please see WP:LEAD.
I recommend taking a look at similar articles that have attained a featured article status, such as Hawksbill turtle and others at Wikipedia:Featured articles#Biology, then determine how you can adopt those formats and include equivalent information.
Statements like "Very few loggerheads" may run into the issue of WP:Vagueness. An actual population estimate would be better, if you can find suitable sources.
Done Please be careful not to assume knowledge the reader might not yet possess. As an example, in the Early life section, it specifies a range of temperatures. However, it is unclear what this data is meant to communicate. The text then has the infant turtles mysteriously incubating and emerging at night from somewhere. The location of this somewhere remains a mystery until the Breeding section.

I hope my brief comments were of some use. Thank you.—RJH (talk) 20:30, 9 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your comments. I'll try to implement some of your suggestions soon. Vancemiller (talk · contribs · count · email) 20:51, 9 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just Some Things[edit]

Hey fellas, this article is looking pretty good, here are a few things that I have noticed...

Done "Therefore, helping them to reach the ocean lowers their chances of survival.[5]"--Depending on what the source said, I feel like this sentence can be taken a step further. Why exactly does moving them hurt their chances of survival. The sentence before this sort of clarifies the point made by this sentence, but I think more needs to be said (i.e. is it a development problem, an experience problem...what?).
Done "The Fripp Island, South Carolina Turtle Patrol each year arranges driftwood to guide the hatchlings towards the closest shoreline."--Can this be cited?
Done Some emphasis on sexual dimorphism should be placed in the current "Anatomy and Morphology" section.
Done "The post-hatchlings then return [..]"--Can't you say "young" or something?
Done The information in the "Habitat" section would be better put into a movement section. In other words, this section should be dealing with the characteristics of where these animals are found, not how or at what stage in their lives the get there.
Done The end of the first sentence and the second sentence of the "Feeding" section repeat each other.

Done Something up with ref. # 6?

Hope this helps somewhat.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 19:41, 12 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the feedback. Vancemiller (talk · contribs · count · email) 02:22, 14 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just Some More Things[edit]

Done The subheading "breeding" implies that someone is actually raising these turtles, mating them to produce specific traits, and releasing them. Is this the case?

Done Internal unit conversions, I'm pretty sure, should be consistent. I would convert from metric units to imperial units every instance you need a conversions. Do not put "7–15 centimetres (70–150 mm)," that is standard to standard.

Done "170 pounds (77 kg) to 350 pounds (159 kg)"--This may already be correct, but can't the unit converter be adapted to read "77-150 Kg (170-350 lbs)?"

Done I think the word "gear" is used a little much in the first paragraph of the threats section.

Again, good luck gentlemen.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 17:51, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You said metric to imperial conversions would be better? The entire article is imperial to metric, should I change it? Vancemiller (talk · contribs · count · email) 00:17, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would advise in favor of the change, only because I received some heat on the bog article about it being a global encyclopedia and the USA being really the only place that uses those units.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 14:27, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, I'll change it.

Done Vancemiller (talk · contribs · count · email) 20:59, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Touches on all areas that an animal article should cover, but 3200 words is not much considering this is the world's most-studied and well-known sea-turtle. Lede needs to be a concise version of the entire article, which is hard to do in a single paragraph. --mav (Urgent FACs/FARs/PRs) 19:55, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, the lead really should be entirely rewritten. I guess we're putting that off until finishing the other sections as the lead should summarize the whole article. Is there something that should be done in the meantime? Vancemiller (talk · contribs · count · email) 20:27, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A general expansion (esp of the Ecology, Behavior, & Importance to humans sections) is all I see as being needed. If the quality of the expanded text is as good as what is here now, then I think this will be ready for FAC. --mav (Urgent FACs/FARs/PRs) 22:10, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments[edit]

Done"Linnaeus first named the loggerhead [...]"--I would say "Carl Linnaeus," but that's more of an aesthetic choice.
Done"crushing the exoskeletons of its prey such as conches."--which includes
Done"The loggerhead is widely distributed around the world, "--I've seen other articles say such and such has a "cosmopolitan distribution," maybe that would be best here (along with a link to the page).
Done"over 67,000 nests per year."--nests built per year may be a little more clear.
Done"Juveniles and non-nesting adults of the Northwestern Atlantic Ocean differ in their habitat preferences"--perhaps (depending on what the source says) you could say age is a factor in habitat preferences.

More coming later (must study nervous system...)--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 00:04, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the input. I'll try to address this ASAP. Vancemiller (talk · contribs · count · email) 01:19, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks a lot for the help Dom. Good luck on the Bog Turtle.--TimHAllstr (talk) 21:10, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You're very welcome (thanks for the luck!)--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 23:06, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done"Pacific Loggerheads live in temperate to tropical regions"--I would link temperate and tropical.
"These distinct populations of loggerheads have unique characteristics and genetic differences."--This does seem like it should fit in this section, but it may be best served in an Evolutionary history section (along with some of the other historical information).
"weight range of 77 to 160 kilograms (170 to 350 lb) and length range of 79 to 120 centimetres (31 to 47 in)."--Some large ranges gentlemen, can no other source be found that gives more specific lengths and weights? The sentence after this serves as a good qualifier, yet it remains unclear why the ranges are so different (is it the difference between populations or something?).

I read somewhere that the Mediterranean loggerheads are smaller. Tim, if you have the Spotila book you might want to include this. Vancemiller (talk · contribs · count · email) 22:54, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed"The carapace, (upper side of the shell) which averages approximately 91 centimetres (36 in)"--What's the relation between this and the sentence before saying they averaged "92 centimetres (36 in)?"

I just removed this statement since it seemed redundant. Vancemiller (talk · contribs · count · email) 22:54, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

DoneThis may be a dumb question, but why is there a "Habitat" heading under the "Ecology" section when there already is a "Range and Habitat" section. I think the best solution would be to rename "Range and Habitat" to "Distribution" and leave the "Habitat" heading.
Fixed"Raccoons are the loggerheads' primary predator and can be extremely destructive."--It is pretty hard to fathom that the Loggerhead suffers from raccoon attacks. I think you're trying to say the raccoon harm the nests, but surely not the full grown turtle. In this section, I would include more info on the predators of the full grown animal as well.
Fixed"hatchlings dig their way to the surface and make their way to the sea."--repetitive "their way"
Done"hatchling averages about 4.6 centimetres (1.8 in) in length and weighs around 20 grams (0.71 oz)"--This is already said verbatim in the "Anatomy and Morphology" section, I would leave it out of that one.
Fixed (lol) "water loss on the journey to the difficult journey from nest to ocean."--Do what?!?
Done"When the water cools loggerheads must"--comma needed.
Done"When both are available, some combination of both is likely used.[29] If one technique is not available the other suffices.[29]"--These two sentences need copy-editing (also, just one in-line citation at the end will do).
"The loggerhead mating period lasts up to six weeks."--Six weeks when? Is it a certain time of the year, or is it multiple times throughout one year.

This needs more information before it is corrected. Vancemiller (talk · contribs · count · email) 22:54, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done"Recent evidence indicates that ovulation in loggerheads is mating-induced.[34] This is unique, as mating-induced ovulation is rare outside of mammals. Loggerheads are the first turtles known to undergo mating-induced ovulation.[34]"--A little repetitive, I would try to make this one sentence.
Done"A single clutch may have as many as five sires, each fathering a portion of the clutch"--My good lord, I request an alteration is diction in this instance (a.k.a. change the word "sire").
Done"due to perceived higher fecundity."--Link Fecundity.
Done"size and shape of a ping-pong ball."--Don't think I need to learn about table tennis while researching the Loggerhead Sea Turtle.
Done" [...] permanent blindness.[45]Trematodes of the [...]'--spacing between the ref and beginning of next sentence.
DoneA new nematode, designated Angiostoma carettae, now infests loggerheads.[48]"--I would word this a bit differently, since the species itself isn't new (newly discovered perhaps).
Done"are listed asEndangered under both "--spacing between "as" and "Endangered" (which I don't think needs to be capitalized or italicized).
Done"Several days after eggs hatch, the workers tally hatched eggs, undeveloped eggs, and dead hatchlings."--We need to know who "the worker's" are (an organization, group of volunteers...what?).
"Hatchlings use the journey from nest to ocean to build strength for the coming swim."--Now we're talking about a swim again...why? You may want to say something like "Since the young use the (whatever journey/swim) to build strength," followed by the next sentence you already have.

Good.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 21:42, 5 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I reordered this section, maybe it's better now. Vancemiller (talk · contribs · count · email) 22:54, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Overall, some nice work guys. A few things in general: again, I stress a sexual dimorphism section, it seems to be very important in species articles, and try to make the text one coherent piece, rather than a compilation of facts (for example, I have no idea how many journeys this turtle makes over the course of it's life). Hope this helps.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 23:06, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I read somewhere that "sexual dimorphism isn't apparent in sea turtles." so I'm not so sure there is much to include on sexual dimorphism (externally at least). I'll keep looking... Vancemiller (talk · contribs · count · email) 22:54, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I would look everywhere possible to see if there's a trace of difference between males and females (a lot of possible references on this turtle).--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 23:35, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Getting ready for possible GAN[edit]

The section headings need to be carefully organized and carefully worded. For instance, under Conservation you have "Diseases," something totally different from conservation efforts. You may want to create (as I was told to do with the bog article) one section called Conservation and in it discuss strictly human interactions with the turtle. Than, in a separate section (perhaps entitled Ecology and behavior), talk about everything ecology. This includes "natural" threats, life cycle, movement, things like that.

I moved the disease section, but I agree that more organization needs to take place.--TimHAllstr (talk) 00:24, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I know your work is not complete, therefore the lead cannot really be a summation of the article (since facts are coming and going), but I think an effort to summarize the articles main points in the lead is within reason.
The small Habitat subsection should really be its own section, with things like distribution and populations under it in sub-sections. Specifics about the habitat are needed (what other animals are expected to be found in its habitat, temperature preferences, (if you can locate it) salinity preferences...).

I have made habitat the main heading and will work on finding the suggested info--TimHAllstr (talk) 00:24, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The last paragraph under Distribution can be made into an Evolutionary history sub-section.

Done --TimHAllstr (talk) 00:30, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Now that that has been said, more grammar things I picked up on...

"calling it Testudo caretta.[5]"--I was previously told that taxonomic synonyms should be placed in the taxonomy box (you can check the bog to see how I had to do it).

Done--TimHAllstr (talk) 00:46, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"C. caretta gets its common name, loggerhead, from the large head.[4]"--its?

Fixed--TimHAllstr (talk) 00:31, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"more frequently found in shallow estuarine habitats with"--link estuarine

DoneTimHAllstr (talk) 00:46, 11 May 2010 (UTC)-t}}[reply]

"migrate from the east Pacific to the Mexican coastline and return later as sub-adults."--sub-adults? Never heard it called that before, keep it if you want, doesn't really matter, just kind of awkward.

subadults are defined as past the juvenile period but don't have adult characteristics yet. I got rid of the dash and linked the word--TimHAllstr (talk) 00:51, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That'll do, thanks!--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 00:57, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Hatchlings range in coloration from light brown to almost black and lack the adult's distinct yellows and reds.[14] They measure approximately 4.6 centimetres (1.8 in) at birth, and weigh about 20 grams (0.71 oz).[4]"--wouldn't this be best served under Early life?

Fixed--TimHAllstr (talk) 02:21, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"The turtle's shell is divided into two sections: carapace and plastron."--These do not need to be linked a second time.

Fixed--TimHAllstr (talk) 00:59, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"More than 100 species of animals from 13 phyla as well as 37 kinds of algae live on loggerheads' backs.[19] These parasitic organisms, which increase drag, offer no known benefit to the turtle, although it has been suggested that the dulling effect of organisms on shell color improves camouflaging ability.[19]"--Again, I think this should be removed from this section (perhaps if you choose to make an Ecology section, it can go in there).

We currently have an Ecology section. Is there a specific subheading that you would recommend this go under?--TimHAllstr (talk) 01:00, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming these are parasites (which they seem to be since they are hinder the turtle), I would change Disease to maybe Disease and parasites, making this sentence a separate paragraph (and if more content is found on the subject it can be added to that section).--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 01:22, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done--TimHAllstr (talk) 01:30, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"On two barrier islands in South Carolina, raccoons destroyed more than 80 percent of loggerhead nests.[22] In Cape Sable, Florida, raccoons destroyed 75-85 percent of the nests.[22]"--When did these things happen?

Honestly, the source does not clearly state this information. Should I remove this?

No, since a reference found it important enough to include. The solution may be to make the statement more generalized. Perhaps you could say something like: "In several instances, raccoons have been recorded destroying large portions of loggerhead nests."--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 01:18, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Done--TimHAllstr (talk) 01:35, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"loggerheads have their spread to about mid-stroke swimming position"--Have their what spread?

Fixed--TimHAllstr (talk) 02:22, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

~~"when the conflict is over access to good foraging grounds."--Can't really picture a loggerhead foraging for food, I can picture a cow doing so...~~

A sea turtle's foraging ground is the area in which it will mate. This is stated in our article under the Maturation section--TimHAllstr (talk) 01:11, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Under the Early life section, can it be mentioned how far away from the ocean their mothers typically bury them?

I have put in the most specific information I could find about what you requested in our current resources. I will attempt to find more specific measurements.--TimHAllstr (talk) 01:24, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"During their migration, juvenile loggerheads have the ability to..."--this paragraph kind of just jumps into the meat of the issue, can you discuss maybe the age at which the migration occurs, something like that (or does this happen every year? if so, say that)?

Fixed I think--TimHAllstr (talk) 01:38, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

" Loggerheads that reach adulthood typically live more than 30 years, and often live past 50 years."--I think the words "typically" and "often" make this sentence a bit confusing, is it more common for the loggerhead to live 30 years or 50 years?

I'm having a hard time finding the exact source for this info but I will work on fixing this.

~~"prepares for reproduction in its foraging area"--again, I just can't picture it (it may be perfectly fine wording...I don't know, leave it as is if you want to).~~
"During the mating period, females produces an average of 3.9 egg clutches"--it's weird how this paragraph is worded when compared to the things before it (are you talking about during the act of mating, or during the mating season?).

Fixed--TimHAllstr (talk) 02:20, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"The nesting season peaks in June and July, but varies by nesting beach.[36]"--"nest" could have been linked well before (unless it already has, in which case, remove this wikilink).

Fixed I kept the nesting season link because it is directed to a different article.--TimHAllstr (talk) 01:56, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"males favor large females due to perceived higher fecundity."--thanks for linking this word already, but I would also include a little bit of an explanation as to what it means.

Fixed I added a very general definition in parentheses--TimHAllstr (talk) 02:20, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Importance to humans heading can be merged into the Conservation section as perhaps a beginning paragraph.

Done--TimHAllstr (talk) 02:02, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Loggerhead Sea Turtles were once intensively hunted for meat and eggs."--couple things, what is the correct capitalization of this common name? I have seen several...also, I think the word "their" can be placed before "meat and eggs." Also, when did this happen (is it still happening?)?

Fixed It is Loggerhead sea turtle. I put more of an explanation for clarity.--TimHAllstr (talk) 02:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

~~"can't return to the surface to breathe."--sp. (breath).~~

It states that they breathe, as in they take in air. Not that they take a breath.--TimHAllstr (talk) 02:09, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ah...okay.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 00:27, 12 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Artificial lighting threatens loggerhead hatchlings, contributing to thousands of deaths per year. Hatchlings crawl to the water as soon as they emerge from their underground nest. They are guided toward the ocean by the reflection of the moon and stars off the water's surface.[25] Artificial lighting may cause the turtles to navigate inland, away from the protective waters, exposing them to dehydration and predation as the sun rises.[25][47]"--We've already been told this, perhaps the other instance where this is stated can be removed (since this section deals exclusively with "human activity").

Fixed Changed so that the concept of glare directing turtles is stated in early life and artificial lighting detail is described in human activity.--TimHAllstr (talk) 02:13, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Trematode infection can be highly debilitating, for example, inflammatory trematode lesions "--can't "for example" be the start of a new sentence?

Done--TimHAllstr (talk) 02:17, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Plastic fencing can exclude predators such as raccoons or even dogs."--I would continue this sentence with something like: "from the nesting site."

Done--TimHAllstr (talk) 02:17, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Alright men, what do you say we fix these small things, do a little more research, and promote another good article for the good guys?--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 20:06, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, and thank you very much for your help. I will work on completely fixing the suggestions that I haven't been able to complete over the next few days.--TimHAllstr (talk) 02:20, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also, note the alt text link in the box in the top right corner, it is a handy tool. You need to add alt text to the first two images, even though one is a map.--NYMFan69-86 (talk) 01:32, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]