Wikipedia:Peer review/Man Down (song)/archive3

Man Down (song)

Previous peer review

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because… it has, in my opinion, been unfairly failed at FAC. Prior to nomination in July, I worked on this article from April until nomination. It had a substantial copyedit from Miniapolis at the GOCE, a thorough copyedit from Wikipedian Penguin during the nomination, and some copyediting from SchroCat, an FLC delegate. It received 5 supports, but also two opposes in the later stages of the six weeks it was open for. Despite a lot of generous contributions from editors mentioned previously, the article was deemed not worthy of being an FA by a few editors who opposed. I've been told for opt for a Peer Review, but I still don't know if this will ever be enough to please.

Thanks,  — Calvin999 12:28, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Comments from JM

If it sounds like I'm being harsh, it's because people were critical of the prose at FAC.

• In the lead, the line about the lyrics doesn't really work. Lyrics don't "involve" so much as "address" (or something similar), and I'm not keen on the passive voice.
• "confident performance" and "vocal agility" are non-neutral- they're terms that belong in a review, not an encyclopedia article.
• "and was covered live by British singer and songwriter Leona Lewis as part of a mashup with Lewis' 2008 single, "Better in Time"." Does an unreleased live cover really belong in the lead?
• "and stated that a writing camp typically involves the label hiring ten recording studios for two weeks at the cost of $25,000 per day" I'm not really clear on what the point of this is
• "Ray Daniels, the manager of musical duo Rock City (brothers Theron and Timothy Thomas), was present during the sessions, and stated that a writing camp typically involves the label hiring ten recording studios for two weeks at the cost of $25,000 per day.[2] Daniels revealed that it is where songwriters have written a song but have no music and where producers have music but no lyrics.[2]" This is a bit odd. What are you aiming to do with these quotes?
• "Sham's manager organised for him to attend the camp as a result of knowing someone who worked for the record the label." This is all over the place. Do you mean something like "Sham's manager had arranged his attendance at the camp through an acquaintance who was an employee of the record label."?
• "His inspiration was to envision" Do you mean "He was inspired by a vision"?
• "responded "Let's give Rihanna a one-drop! Like, a response to 'I shot the sheriff!"[2]" Check your speech marks.
• "Together, Sham and Rocky City write the lyrics to "Man Down" in twelve minutes." Tense
• "Daniels said that once the writing camp concludes, Rihanna listens to all of the songs which have been composed for her and picks her favorites, comparing the process to a reality show whereby Rihanna is the judge." Tense? Also, surely it'd be "in which" rather than "whereby".
• "Daniels said that once the writing camp concludes, Rihanna listens to all of the songs which have been composed for her and picks her favorites, comparing the process to a reality show whereby Rihanna is the judge." The phrasing makes this sound like gossip.
• "Recorded during Rihanna's Last Girl on Earth tour, the song's instrumental was recorded" Repetition
• "Daniels estimated the total cost of the writing camp to be approximately $200,000" Again, passive voice- why not just "as"?
• "sing the song correctly as to achieve the desired sound" Why "as"?
• "similarly priced fee" Why not just "similar fee"?
• "With its strong Barbadian "patois",[10] Slant Magazine critic Sal Cinquemani described "Man Down" as one of Rihanna's "most confident vocal performances"." The subject of the sentence is "Slant Magazine critic Sal Cinquemani", but surely she is not the object "with ... strong Barbadian 'patois'".
• "the song has lyrical context, with regard to Brown's assault on Rihanna." ??
• "When asked by HipHopDX about how he reacted to listeners of the song saying that it condones violence, Sham dismissed the accusations:" This comes out of the blue, as you haven't introduced these claims.
• "The song was released in France and Switzerland on July 11[30][31] and the Netherlands on July 15.[32]" Were these the only international releases?
• "arguing that murdering a rapist as socially-acceptable justice is impermissible" Do you mean something like "arguing that portraying the murder of a rapist as a socially-acceptable form of justice is impermissible"?
• "after the announcement that she would be a Hackney Weekend ambassador." What does this have to do with anything?
• Is "cringeworthy" not a little informal?
• The song has received at least a little bit of academic analysis- this would be a valuable addition to the article. For example, there's a long analysis in Nicole Fleetwood's "The Case of Rihanna: Erotic Violence and Black Female Desire", published in the African American Review- doi:10.1353/afa.2012.0047. Have you looked into the academic literature? If you don't have access to particular works, I may be able to help you.

To me, this does feel a little short of FA level. I fixed a few silly mistakes (like a missed apostrophe) but I suspect that there is more that could be done to improve the prose. Josh Milburn (talk) 16:43, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

Calvin999, let me know when you've addressed Josh's comments above, so that I can offer some input myself. I'm reading a FAC right now and once I am done with it, I hope to assist you. The Wikipedian Penguin 15:52, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks.  — Calvin999 15:53, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Comments from RO

Lead

• Barbadian singer

Two uses of this in the lead, but you don't call Marley a Jamaican singer.

• Rihanna's confident performance – emphasizing her West Indian accent – and vocal agility praised.

This really ought not be in Wikipedia's voice. Sounds like a PR plug.

• British singer and songwriter Leona Lewis

With the Barbadians this is too much. Why emphasis their nationality?

Background

• Rihanna's then untitled fifth studio album

Wikilink Rihanna on first occurrence after the lead.

• Daniels revealed that it is where songwriters have written a song but have no music and where producers have music but no lyrics.[2]

Revisit this for proper punctuation.

Production and recording

• Together, Sham and Rocky City write the lyrics to "Man Down" in twelve minutes

The proper verb form here is "wrote", not "write"

• In a Flavour Magazine interview, singer Shontelle said that Rihanna called her during the Last Girl on Earth tour and asked her to be involved with the song. According to Shontelle, Rihanna was present when "Man Down" was written in the recording studio.[5]

Why do we need to know the source of this info, and why the "according to"?

• "I'm super inspired by reggae music [and it] has been a part of me since I was born, and I grew up listening to it. I grew up loving it. My favorite artists are all reggae artists ... I never get tired of it. I can listen to reggae music all day long, and it was exciting for me to take this on as my own and do a song like this, especially with the lyrics being like that."[6]

This quote is redundant, and I wonder why you don't just paraphrase it or cut it much shorter.

• It is the responsibility of the vocal producer to tell Rihanna how to sing the song correctly as to achieve the desired sound, and to provide any riders

This reads like a how-to of vocal production. Rewrite it so it's more narrative-based.

• Composition and lyrical interpretation
• The first sentence has five cites. Please see WP:CITEOVERKILL
• not meaning to kill her attacker

Explain how this was unintentional? Did she shoot him?

• The long quote at the end should be condensed and/or paraphrased, as it's way too long.

Release and reception

• I don't see anything critical here. Surely there must be some available, particularly if the song is a sort of rewrite of the Marley classic.

Chart performance

• I can't help but feel this section is really better as a chart, or maybe a condensed form with an accompanying chart. Why is this all repeated in a chart at the bottom?

Background and synopsis

• The video opens as the protagonist (Rihanna) shoots and kills a man while he walks through a busy train station

This makes the earlier statement that she didn't mean to kill him all the more confusing.

Controversy

• and thus Rihanna should not have been allowed

Needs polishing to avoid "thus"

• There's too much extended quoting in this section too. With the long quote in "Composition and lyrical interpretation", there are 437 words in quotes, which is about 17% or the article.

Conclusion

Not too bad overall, but there's way too much quoted material, and the "Chart performance" section is really just an un-bulleted list of chart achievements that ought to be summarized and included in an actual chart. I'm also concerned that the reception seems to be universally positive, which might be the case, but surely there is some criticism of the actual song, and not just the violent theme. RO^(talk) 18:26, 28 August 2015 (UTC)